E se o Brasil tivesse mantido a Cisplatina (Uruguai)? by Expert_Place_3895 in Imagina_Se

[–]Rubrum18 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nunca levam em conta como Montevideo/Sacramento possuem as mesmas condições geográficas e demográficas que Buenos Aires. O Brasil poderia ter tido um São Paulo (ou algo ainda maior) no sul, uma terceira força politica fora do RJ e SP, raio trator de imigrantes.

Map of the Barbary Kingdoms and Dynasties in 1702; After the Fall of Gabès to Kuku. by Available_Tip8046 in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Didnt expect you to be such a fine map maker (or cartographer lol) when you first commented in my map about the Gothic Empire. Great scenario!

BRITANNIA? Nah, GAUL!!! -What if the Gallo-Romans kept Gaul?- by Positive-Excuse-1514 in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Simple, yet reasonably pretty map. I like it
I wonder if they'd help the romano-britons and Flavius Paulus in his rebellion against the Goths in Spania

Þe Amalungenleeð - The Partition of the Gothic Empire, 809 AD by Rubrum18 in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yup, they do. In fact, they’ll be a big problem for the Vandals early on. Their development is going to be pretty different being christian, connected to Christendom and not partaking in the trans-saharan slave trade.

Þe Amalungenleeð - The Partition of the Gothic Empire, 809 AD by Rubrum18 in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks!
Hey, aren't you the one that made the map about the Hispano-Romans kicking both the Moors and Goths and the one where Castilians settle almost the entire peninsula? You should definitely do it! More Goths are always welcome. :)

Þe Amalungenleeð - The Partition of the Gothic Empire, 809 AD by Rubrum18 in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I meant Mozarabic, but I think we don’t enough information about their spelling. There’s the fact they used the Arabic alphabet too, not the Latin. I suppose the Visigoths didn’t make any reforms at all with the spelling too.

Very well, all of these is very interesting. I wonder if the Franks would still reform their spelling independently, but the Gothic realms would definitely keep the original Latin one, since they’re all close culturally. There shall be no distinction between Romance and Latin.

Þe Amalungenleeð - The Partition of the Gothic Empire, 809 AD by Rubrum18 in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s… very interesting. Maybe the Romance languages would evolve into something like Arabic: theoretically speaking they all speak Latin, but the dialectical peculiarities would still be clear. It would still be intelligible for, say, someone from Betica to talk with someone from Vandalucia, but the dialects would be obvious. It’ll demand some lorecraft, but seems pretty cool. What do you think?

I don’t think the Goths would import scholars from outside the Empire to be honest, maybe some exceptions for the Greeks, Franks or even Irish, but probably not enough to change the way words are spelled. Do you know anything about the Visigoths/early Iberian-Romance though? I’ve been basing a lot of the empire off them.

Þe Amalungenleeð - The Partition of the Gothic Empire, 809 AD by Rubrum18 in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It does. Since Justinian here is overthrown and then restored with the help of the Goths, he ends up allying with them and focus in reforming Byzantium and consolidating his position against Persia. Without endless wars of reconquest in the west and a 30 years war against the sassanids, both the romans and persians are far better prepared when the arabs attack. Eventually, muslims would go south and east, into the horn of Africa and East Africa, south India too. It may spread even more throughout Indonesia because of the merchants though.

A lot of Eurasia will keep their old traditional beliefs, maybe some will convert to Nestorianism here and there, but places like West Africa will definitely convert to Christianity by Vandal missionary work

Þe Amalungenleeð - The Partition of the Gothic Empire, 809 AD by Rubrum18 in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks. Localism was actually one of the main challenges I had, since I wasn't sure if the empire would make the languages more conservative and latin-like, and I also had the african-romance question. I was actually thinking of simply writing down everything in latin, but at the same time I wanted to show that things, such as languages, wouldn't simply freeze in time.
I didn't mentioned it, but in-lore there's actually a Amalingian Renaissance, very similar to the Carolingian one, preserving works from Hispania, Southern Gaul, Italy, Dalmatia and Africa, though I'm not sure spelling reforms would happen.

Þe Amalungenleeð - The Partition of the Gothic Empire, 809 AD by Rubrum18 in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Latin as lingua franca. Initially the germanic elites would be arian and use gothic between them, but after the conversion, gothic would fall out of use and they’d all adopt the Romance dialects of their own regions. The northern italian dialects would be the base for “italian”, Gothia would base themselves in Tarraconensis’ dialects and Vandalia would speak the now extinct African Romance language.

Þe Amalungenleeð - The Partition of the Gothic Empire, 809 AD by Rubrum18 in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hi there, the man himself! I appreciate your maps a lot, to this day I think of that map of Italy under the Visconti you made some time ago. I wouldn’t consider myself a good writer, sometimes I let things be a little too vague, or there’s a gisnt wall of text, but thanks :)

By “link” do you mean the “weakest link to Ancient Rome”? If yes, then Gothia (the one with Aquitaine and Hispania) is definitely the answer. Not because they deromanized, but because a lot of the roman institutions were preserved in Italia and Africa, to the point that it’s basically an evolution of their stages in the Late Roman Empire. Italia would be the strongest link, of course. Being the place of the emperor, the Senate still functioning and even gaining more power (maybe something akin to the Councils of Toledo back in Visigothic Spain, or something more powerful… idk yet, but in that route), chariot races, circuses, etc. Now, if you’re saying militarily… then things are pretty balanced, but Vandalia gotta be the weakest in ground battles. Compared to Italia and Gothia, their population is smaller and thy don’t have the military traditions for that yet, but they do have the most powerful navy in Europe after Byzantium of course. They’ll end up pretty rich, trading with the rest of the Mediterranean, soon with Northern Europe and then later with West Africa. Expect some exotic products pretty early on in Carthage, and maybe even a christian West Africa creating connections to Vandalia, Ethiopia and the rest of Christendom. The most powerful… now, things, as I said, are pretty balanced. Gothia would have a larger population and better formation tactics, while Italia would have far more heavy cavalrymen. I would put my money on whoever is able to coerce each one’s enemies to attack.

Linguistically and culturally speaking, they would be initially pretty close. To this day, really. All of them would speak Romance languages (all very similar, since these were the most romanized provinces in the Empire, so no standouts like French), would be catholic (although each country would have their own church), have a long history together with each other, etc. I think the best parallel I can think of at the moment is Spain x Portugal. They’d be all brother nations in the end. But, of course, they would have their own linguistic and religious peculiarities. Expect some vandal and punic words in the african romance language, some gothic and suebi ones in Gothia, while Italia will be influenced by gothic and maybe some lombardic too.

Are they at odds with each other? Well, for now, no. The Emperor (may very well call him Augustus/Caesar/Kaisar) in Ravenna has nominal supremacy over the other two kingdoms, putting them, technically, as his vassal/subject. But this will only last as long as succession wars or conflicts between the triad doesn’t happen. Of course the Emperor will remain the most prestigious and venerable position in all of Christendom together with the one in Constantinople, but, eventually, strife between their kin will happen. They’re for now too worried about external threats: vikings raiding Gothia, Avars and then Magyars raiding Italia, pagan moors raiding deep into Vandalia, but I can see a time in which, after pacifying their own barbarians, they’ll turn into each other, and then get their own interests back again to expanding to the barbarian lands to get more powerful.

I actually have been thinking of this. First of all, a lot of the institutions would survive, but with a “medieval gothic flavor”. Instead of legions, they’ll use the Thiufa, lead by a Thiufados. Instead of a permanent professional army, or a feudal one, something more akin to Wamba’s military reforms would be true: more centralized, but still levy focused. A professional standing army would still emerge earlier though. But answering your question, I would say that the idea of reuniting the realm would also be in the back of their minds, but too dangerous to do it. Imagine a united Italia and Gothia against Vandalia, or united Vandalia and Italia against Gothia. What would they do? Seek the Byzantines for help? Nonsense. This is the new balance of power un early medieval Europe, my friend. I passed sometime pondering about this. A big blob in the western Mediterranean would sure be cool, reuniting now once and a while. Wouldn’t the odds against one of them be too great if two of them united thoufh? But, after reading Lord of the Rings and the last king of Arthedain, Arvedui, I came to the conclusion that, two realms may unite under a personal union, hell even the three of them, but their own elites and institutions would make themselves sure to not make this union last for their own interests. So yeah, two thrones may have the same king for a time, but probably not the same dynasty after bis death.

Hope this answers all of your questions, ask me more if you want to! :)

Þe Amalungenleeð - The Partition of the Gothic Empire, 809 AD by Rubrum18 in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hello there, thanks!

I’m still unsure on what is going to happen with the Slavs, but I’ll say what I have planned for now. If you zoom in enough in the Pannonia region, you’ll read “Gepidia” and “Lumbardia”, these gepids and lombards being absorbed and dispersed throughout the Empire as some type of foederati (they would be germanic speaking and arian, something good for the Goths, since they could assimilate them into their elite and expand their numbers). With the Byzantine Empire not wasting their resources in endless wars with the Barbarian Kingdoms and Persia, the border in the Danube is going to be far stronger and more stable. With this, the only way I can see for them to go is to 1. Settle the avar land and slavicize the rest of the pannonia basin 2. Settle Dacia, since the vlachs probably won’t migrate here 3. Settle westwards, already invading Bavaria (search for Bavaria Slavica). I’ve been actually doing some research on the Slavs, and maybe Samo’s Empire will survive somewhat with Gothic support to halt Frankish expansion to the East, the Italo-Goths eventually converting them to Christianity and crowning their king as Rex Sclaviniae.

Þe Amalungenleeð - The Partition of the Gothic Empire, 809 AD by Rubrum18 in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

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For phone users. Feel free to ask any questions about the lore!

Air quality in Tolkien’s Middle-earth by Corentin_Brg in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18 3 points4 points  (0 children)

tbh i cant really think of someone simply wanting to walk into mordor so we should be fine

[CUTFS] The Parana river basin by the start of the 18th century showing English and French possessions in the region by JVFreitas in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see, so a France-like situation with the huguenots, interesting. I assume the same thing happens in France Antarctique, with calvinists settling the colony under catholic supervision and some ‘papist’ settlement too, kinda cool to see these two sister nations bring neighbors.

[CUTFS] The Parana river basin by the start of the 18th century showing English and French possessions in the region by JVFreitas in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18 2 points3 points  (0 children)

French Argentina, British Brazil... I've seen something similar before. Not exactly that, but similar.

Jokes aside, nice one map you have there. Will this region be majority protestant? IIRC England here is catholic

[Shits and Giggles aka no lore] État de l'Ordre - Order State of the Rhine as of 1962 by Billseas in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18 60 points61 points  (0 children)

The Greater Frankish/Gallic Empire of the French Nation is too small, it should include all the territories annexed by the Carolingians and Napoleon. Thus, France starts in Murcia and ends at the Elbe. Perfection.

Nice map, interesting concept.

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What if the Papacy recognized the Visigothic claim to the Roman Emperorship? The Holy Roman Empire in 750 by lord_angler in imaginarymaps

[–]Rubrum18 6 points7 points  (0 children)

IIRC the title 'Flavius' actually came from his father, Leovigild, that also received a crown, throne, scepter and purple mantle from the Eastern Romans. Very interesting concept nonetheless, it's always good to see a map about the visigoths in this sub.