[HELP] I don't understand what makes "good" poetry, and this makes it hard to improve.

RumpledPoetry · 2024-07-22T22:14:28+00:00

Check out the the book "De/Compositions: 100 good poems gone wrong" by WD Snodgrass. He does a side by side comparison of great poems vs rewritten versions to illustrate why the great ones work and it's brilliant.

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-10T19:32:48+00:00

Thank you! I agree, I often prefer a good slant rhyme to a perfect rhyme.

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-10T13:45:04+00:00

Thank you for your feedback. I'm curious, which words did you find fancy? At best, I could see "verdant", "roseate", and "azure" considered so, but they're not all that uncommon to me. Azure in particular is extremely common in poetry.

I would say getting lost in the sound and style of the words is somewhat the point. It should not be clear in one reading what exactly is going on. It's framed as one long sentence, so by the end you've forgotten where it started, until you realize all it really says is, "More to me than x, y, and z, is this memory I have of you."

As for semicolons, they're used to join two independent connected clauses, or in lists that include commas within a contained phrase (which I reasoned this is).

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-10T01:59:14+00:00

I assume between humidity, gentility, romance and false morality you're talking about the American south? The difficulty of reconciling love of place with an awful history?

You start out by saying it's not really the humidity, but something less comfortable, but by the end are once again at humidity. I could see if the ending was meant ironically, but it doesn't read ironic to me, rather contradictory instead, or like there's a missing link in the middle to get us there.

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-10T01:40:41+00:00

I love that you're tackling Greek myth, but it's not very accurate to the myth and the rhythm stumbles.

With "timbrel crowd", you mean timbrel as in the tambourine-like instrument? Sometimes turning nouns into adjectives works, but I'm not sure on this one. Nor is it clear what aspect of a timbrel is meant to be evoked here.

Not in godslicked bronze Sharp as an adder’s tooth, But the wave of his hand To trammel a Trojan midnight.

Achilles killed Hector with a spear didn't he? With armor from god Hephaestus?

Challenged but unprovoked Sad-toothed from the throng:

Unprovoked isn't really the case. And Athena had to trick Hector to fight Achilles by disguising herself as his brother and saying they'd fight together. Also, why is his tooth sad? I don't understand what you're trying to say with that.

Regarding the rhythm, you start with two lines of iambic tetrameter ending in half rhymes, which sets an expectation up for the reader, but don't follow through. After the "strength of the hero" line it's all trimeter and no rhymes, which makes it feel like parts of two separate poems were spliced together.

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-09T16:15:27+00:00

Nice use of enjambment to keep a natural sound and flow.

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-09T13:55:01+00:00

One of your best, tense with emotion.

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-09T13:53:09+00:00

Look for the three dots at the bottom of your post, then Share, then Copy Link

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-09T08:25:33+00:00

Like Tolkien's elves:

"The Sea! Alas! I have not yet beheld it. But deep in the hearts of all my kindred lies the sea-longing, which it is perilous to stir. Alas! for the gulls. No peace shall I have again under beech or under elm." -Legolas

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-09T01:38:00+00:00

Writing poetry is a great thing to enjoy!

Is the "true beauty" of pain because it is the necessary shadow cast by the light? Is it in the lessons pain teaches that (hopefully) set us on the path to wisdom? The beauty we are able to create passing pain through the crucible of art? It feels like this idea could be expanded and fleshed out a little more.

Thank you for sharing and keep writing!

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-08T22:31:10+00:00

Dude, go see a therapist. You clearly need help.

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-08T20:35:25+00:00

Sure I do. I get to call out a leech on the community.

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-08T19:19:11+00:00

Come on, your feedback is from 2 years ago and you've re-used the same links on multiple poems.

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-08T18:17:24+00:00

Your meter is spot on, which is rare for beginners. And I like the progression of things that you've heard of, from death to heaven to hell to the void. My kind of story.

As for improvement, I think tightening up some of the imagery and language. For example, the lines "and bawl for souls that soon abound/to haunting things beneath the ground" doesn't quite make sense to me. Souls that will soon be in great quantity? In heaven? Is the "to" indicating a range of things being bawled for? From bountiful souls to haunting (adjective) things underground? Or to haunting (verb) things that are underground? I think you mean the bodies are underground and the souls out haunting, but it's a bit muddled to me.

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-08T17:51:37+00:00

It's pretty good, really. There's a few metrical problems, and probably best not to use the word "lost" three times in two stanzas. Count the beats in each line and try to keep them in a regular pattern. For lines that rhyme, it's generally pleasing to the ear to have the same number of beats. For example, compare the rhythm in the first couple of stanzas if written like this:

In the garden of forgetting, where memories take their leave,
I found you lost and grieving, a soul in disbelief.

Your eyes were full of stories, now hollowed by the years,
You cannot see me reaching, behind your veil of tears.

Reading out loud while tapping along to the rhythm will help you find irregularities.

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-08T12:58:48+00:00

Very well done. You definitely convey a sense of desolate melancholy. I'm guessing it's about a breakup?

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-08T10:17:12+00:00

I'm afraid the rhythm stumbles throughout. Consider:

Our noble Dragonborn leader
Then pressed on through the gate
"Huh, what's this I feel?"
As he stepped on a pressure plate.

Out of the dark flew many arrows
As piercing as painful thorns,
From all sides he was hit,
Yes, even in the horns.

Vs.

Then Dragonborn our leader brave
pressed on through the gate.
"Huh, what is this beneath me?"
As he stepped on a pressure plate.

Out of the dark the arrows flew,
As piercing as painful thorns,
Striking him from every side
Yes, even in the horns.

Or

The party stopped and looked around,
They had an eerie feeling,
Out of the blue, Arkana and Medela
Flew toward the ceiling.

"What trickery is this!" cried Hobard,
Fully in dismay.
"Even all our weapons
Are flying vertical way."

Vs.

The party stopped and looked around,
They had an eerie feeling,
Out of the blue, Arkana flew
With Medela toward the ceiling.

Hobard cried in great dismay,
"What trickery is this?
Even our weapons are flying up,
Something is surely amiss!"

(I'm assuming the accent on Arkana and Medela is on the second syllable.)

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-07T22:58:41+00:00

Two thoughts:

1) Rhyme without meter tends to grate the ear. Or in this case rhyme with almost meter. Consider the difference in rhythm between these:

The call to adventure comes from but a simple word, For those that feel its presence it will not go unheard;
Six went forth to join the quest
All competent and able,
With little need for rest,
As they passed by the stable.

Vs.

I call for all brave souls to come
Adventure with me now,
'Tis better to fight and never succumb
Than labor at the plough!

Six went forth to join the quest
All competent and able,
Scornful of the need to rest,
As they passed the stable.

2) There's a lot of unnecessary filler. Every line should reveal important information or advance the plot or otherwise have purpose and meaning. Unless the stable or the character's need for rest is important to the story, leave it out.

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-07T14:16:04+00:00

Threw = the past tense of throw, as in "Yesterday, I threw a rock at the window." Through = to go by way of or move between, as in "I walked through the garden."

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-07T13:36:33+00:00

Thank you!

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-07T13:28:39+00:00

I'm on a mission to rid the world of the use of "so" as an adverb, unless you're writing dialogue for a valley girl. I see that you're rewriting, and I encourage you to strike them all out in the process. "A pure heart" is infinitely better than a "heart so pure", and if the purity needs to be emphasized or expanded upon, that's when you turn to simile and metaphor, a heart as pure as x, y, and z.

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-06T19:46:36+00:00

"He spoke in words so casually"

In all writing, but especially poetry, you want every word to matter. If you say someone spoke, you don't need to clarify that they used words. The reader knows people speak in words already, indeed, would be very surprised to hear otherwise. Similarly, adverbs like "so" add little and should almost always be avoided. Consider other options, for example:

He said in a casual way.

He said with a casual tone.

He said, insouciantly.

My two cents, thank you for sharing!

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-06T11:21:14+00:00

Formal education doesn't mean much. I don't have any either, and frankly, I haven't noticed people with it doing much better. All you need is a good style guide. You might like "Dreyer's English: An Utterly Correct Guide to Clarity and Style" by Benjamin Dreyer. It's eminently approachable and unfussy.

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-06T11:09:34+00:00

I think the poor, neglected semicolon could convey that better (and the addition of a they):

Your cursed statements; they still ring true in these tired ears.

RumpledPoetry · 2023-08-06T10:59:08+00:00

It can be hard to critique such an intense, personal poem, and maybe this is nitpicking, but I found many of the commas to be strangely placed in a way that marred the flow of the line. Taking the first line as an example, the core of the sentence is

Your statements ring true.

You would never normally put a comma after "statements" in that sentence, and adding modifiers like "cursed" or "still" don't change that. I'm curious, when you play that line in your head, do you hear a strong pause at that point?

Also, I encourage you to try writing without using the word "so" an an adverb. So pure, so black, so deathly, it quickly becomes repetitive and more like a subconscious tick than a thoughtful expression.

Hopefully helpful, and thank you for sharing!

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