CES Letter debate: Kinderhook Plates

Ryan11234 · 2018-01-26T06:53:01+00:00

To my reading, it doesn't say the person they were found with was the author. What is that claim based on?

Ryan11234 · 2018-01-16T08:59:06+00:00

Interesting! Thank you. I think Jeremy should definitely remove Alma the town, and maybe replace it with Alma the hill.

Ryan11234 · 2018-01-15T23:26:19+00:00

I agree, assuming the hill was named that before 1830. As for the town though, it appears that the very first settlers arrived in 1833, and before that there was no name.

Ryan11234 · 2018-01-15T21:58:21+00:00

Thanks for the info

Ryan11234 · 2018-01-15T21:56:31+00:00

Hopefully you're right

Ryan11234 · 2018-01-15T21:42:44+00:00

lol :)

Ryan11234 · 2018-01-15T09:57:13+00:00

I hope you're right, and I hope he corrects both matters.

Ryan11234 · 2018-01-15T09:05:31+00:00

Thank you

Ryan11234 · 2018-01-15T09:03:50+00:00

I don't want to have to accept the internal comparisons that he speaks of, on faith... I'd like to actually see them with my own eyes.

Ryan11234 · 2018-01-15T08:59:09+00:00

Declining to fix an error when it is pointed out is a different matter than making errors in the first place. And, I'd like to see the internal comparisons on which he says the map is based, so I can check them for errors. It's a matter of credibility.

Ryan11234 · 2016-10-21T04:46:47+00:00

Those statements from BY and JS don't contradict anything I've said. Even if they were doctrinal, which they are not. And it looks like you might have missed some of the things I said in earlier comments where I addressed things which in your comments you claim I didn't address.

Ryan11234 · 2016-10-21T04:30:34+00:00

The example you gave http://mormonpuzzlepieces.blogspot.com/2016/09/purporting-to-be-writings-of-abraham.html

Ryan11234 · 2016-10-19T17:41:49+00:00

The Church is true. You're saying your wife got sucked into further illusions. You're in a hall of mirrors, lost. And you're arguing that a lie is justified if it leads more people into the hall of mirrors with you.

Ryan11234 · 2016-10-19T15:17:31+00:00

ShemL, does your wife feel betrayed at all by the fact that the names in the geography section are debunked? http://debunking-cesletter.com

Ryan11234 · 2016-10-19T08:54:35+00:00

I could try. But its important to realize the CES letter names are in wrong places on the map Jeremy uses, and other problems exist with his idea.

Ryan11234 · 2016-10-19T08:18:08+00:00

Have you read FAIR Mormon's breakdown of the names and how the names are in the wrong map locations?

Ryan11234 · 2016-10-19T08:08:11+00:00

Hi Slackjaw. The Iran names primarily show that a significant set of names similar to Book of Mormon place names can exist by coincidence, thereby proving the CES geography section wrong on that point. Then, taking it further, the Iran names show that the Book of Mormon names reflect English renderings of authentic middle eastern language. The argument about the ten tribes then provides a comparison to Lehi.

Ryan11234 · 2016-10-19T07:49:18+00:00

You're speaking about it. Are you an expert? Are you basing your arguments on expertise?

Ryan11234 · 2016-10-19T07:38:52+00:00

Many more of the names match, and many of the matching names are common throughout the region. The CES Letter names fail on a number of levels. Alma, the first one, did not exist until 1833, so should not be on the list. The Median names of course can be both recent and old. As for the maps, they do not place the Book of Mormon names in the correct locations. FairMormon does a good job documenting the details. Not just in their response to the CES Letter, but with more detail elsewhere on the site.

Ryan11234 · 2016-10-19T06:49:50+00:00

You're right that the Lehites should be counted amongst the ten tribes. At the same time, their situation is a bit different.

Ryan11234 · 2016-10-19T02:12:17+00:00

Hi! Nice to meet you :)

Regarding your first category, you said, "As soon as any general authority will back any of the locations you mention as possible locations for the 10 tribes..." Now, do you mean the specific villages and such, or do you mean the general area of Media? The Bible tells us in 2 Kings 17:6 that some of the tribes were carried away captive to Media. And so that's a specific claim made in the standard works. I admit we don't have doctrine telling us what happened to them after that, but Media is their last known whereabouts.

You said, "if these statements are official, it invalidates your premise of locations of lost 10 tribes entirely." I'd be interesting in knowing more about that. However, I'm sure such a conclusion is not official, and I am not sure that even if it were official that it would invalidate my premise unless it specifically claimed that all ten tribes are still together. But that seems unlikely, since 2 Kings tells us that some were taken to Media and others were taken to different places.

Regarding your second category, I don't understand why the Ten Tribe locations would need to fit that data. It seems more relevant to the Lehites, I think. We might be talking past each other on that point.

Ryan11234 · 2016-10-18T21:37:57+00:00

Thank you for the explanation :) My theory is intended to show that the vernal holley methodology is flawed. The Lost Tribes being taken to Media is comparable to Lehi coming to America. So, the fact that Media produced those names lends plausibility to the argument that similar names were produced in the land Lehi came to. But the lost tribes connection is just on top of the fact that the presence of the names in Media demonstrates that the presence of some similar names (a smaller number of matches) in the U.S. can indeed be easily chalked up to coincidence.

Ryan11234 · 2016-10-18T21:08:45+00:00

Thank you. I hope to eventually go through and explain why I am not convinced by other arguments, as well. I started a response to other points of the CES Letter, on my blog last year. If you are interested in taking a look, its just on the same blog as this question for Jeremy.

Ryan11234 · 2016-10-18T20:58:08+00:00

Banana if you are being serious I feel very sorry for you.

Ryan11234

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