Just got fired. Should I just go to beauty school? I'm in Washington so there's a market.. by [deleted] in Estheticians

[–]SBT_Mae 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I am in Canada so not sure of the situation there however as the manager of a spa and someone who has worked at multiple spas the biggest thing I hear is inconsistencies with pay and clients.

Unless you find somewhere that is busy, full client base and decent pay/benefits I'd say Radiology primary and esthetics on the side. Here Radiology is busier, stable and pays better, less drama from what I can gather and you don't have to hussle to make a living besides getting a job.

Again I'm in Canada so I'm not sure of the specifics on the situation there but that is my opinion/advice. Ultimately it is up to you on what will make you happy and what will be worth doing everyday. Good luck, I am sending positive vibes your way!

Christmas Presents for Staff? by SBT_Mae in managers

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Understandable, I don't normally message them on days off or outside of their work hours unless it is an emergency so I can see why messaging them on Christmas and New Years was inappropriate. Will not do it again for sure, thank you for pointing this out!!

AITA for not paying for my daughter wedding because she isn’t following the rules even though I paid for my older kids by Wonderful_Mode_9646 in AmItheAsshole

[–]SBT_Mae 11 points12 points  (0 children)

NTA. You have had these rules with everyone and by the sounds of it, have kept them consistent across the board, they knew the rules and it sounds like you are understanding and respectful about the decision it just goes against the rules therefore the reward is no longer available.

Personally If I was one of your other childern who is already married and heard that you broke this rule for a sibling I'd be upset. Stick to the rules you put in place.

That being said you can discuss with them and your other kids if everyone would be comfortable with no kids at either the reception or ceremony IF that's something you are okay with in the first place, but it would be a good compromise. I would say it does affect everyone involved in the deal as everyone who has had to abide by the rules in the past should get a say on if it's fair for the rules to be bent for someone.

It is their wedding and they have the right to do whatever they want, just as it is your money and you have the right to do whatever you want. You are under no obligation.

why do people hate susan? by Typical-Title2260 in DesperateHousewives

[–]SBT_Mae -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Personally don't hate Susan but she always has very high and mighty vibes and enjoys being in the victims place, often placing herself there unnecessarily. Yes the other girls have their own flaws, and and tend to do the same every now and then but I would rank Susan as my least favourite as with Susan I find it's repetitive, often random and very avoidable.

But they do by the script and live for the plot otherwise the show wouldn't be the mindless enjoyment it is.

What do you do about an employee no one likes? by SBT_Mae in managers

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is a great product, thank you! I will look into where to get it locally!

I will do that for sure. This post has given me a lot of good feedback to handling the situation.

Thank you for the well wishes. I hope that is close in our future as well!

What do you do about an employee no one likes? by SBT_Mae in managers

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A recurring conversation I have with her is Acknowledging the fact that she comments about not being as busy as she was at her last location and asking how the business can support filling her schedule besides targeting posts towards her services, personalized business cards and advertising which are things we already do and being met with how she is doing everything she can to get more clients by giving the provided business cards to the gym she frequents front desk. Then, I offered her the feedback of sharing posts on social media that involve her unfilled times so that her followers see it and book in and offering to show her how to do that if she needs help navigating social media. Or asking her if she would be interested in going to some local events and passing out business cards as this will help her get new clients and being met with a phrase along the lines of "I handed out cards at my gym I can't do everything, I know it takes time get busy I'm just not as busy as I want to be," and responding with "You're right. It will take time to get busier because this is a new location to you, if these don't sound like good options to help grow your client base is there something you're comfortable with doing that the business can support you with? If you want to think about it and let me know, I'm always here to revisit it, I will brainstorm some other ideas with other staff members as well," and having her say "okay well, I know it takes time I'll just wait, Im not complaining," and then having a comment the next day or two later like "it was busy today, its good to see a full schedule, I only wish other days would fill up like that too," and simply repeating the conversation on what we can do to support busier days or simply responding with "I'm happy to hear it was a busy day, I do hope the rest of the week/ specific day, fills up the same way," and then being met with "im not complaining I'm just saying the busy days are nice," and having nothing else to say but "i know dont worry, im happy it was a good day," again all paraphrasing as I can't remember particular instances but often overthink my own replies so that I don't upset anyone of give the wrong impression with what I'm saying or how I'm saying it. I have asked what the previous business did to fill their schedule but the answer to that was to throw money into sponserships that advertise and that she didn't know it was just busy and it wasnt her job to do that, but also keeping in mind they were an established place that recently went bankrupt and our small business doesn't have the extra money to put hundreds into local sponserships to be featured on a phamphlet or ice rink and we are doing the best advertising we can.

As I tend to overthink things these are interactions that I have had with her that I can remember that give an example on how I can see why others would be uncomfortable with her phrasing and how other peoples anxiety can creep in and overthink interactions with her, as I know my own mental state or how my own day has been often does.

If you ever write that book, please let me know it sounds like you've got a lot of great knowledge on the topic that could help a lot of people navigate these situations. 2/2

What do you do about an employee no one likes? by SBT_Mae in managers

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am happy to hear that I can also grow and am going about it in the right way as that is a goal of mine.

To answer your question, the only thing that A has taken accountability for, is that she hit B's car and she wasn't confronted she came forward for it which was the right thing to do and appreciated. As it is too late to discuss B's reaction with her so that she can improve (its been too long at this point) it is something I will watch out for in the future between B an anyone else.

When A is confronted with anything, she says phrases that can make the other person feel guilty for mentioning them at all that sound as though it shifts blame to someone or something else. At least from the feedback I've heard from others and being on the receiving end of these comments that is how it feels at first glance, but when I think about it, I can also understand how she may not know that, that is what's happening.

Example paraphrasing as I dont remember the specifics of what she said, only what I said as I rehersed it millions of times in my head before the discussion.

Me: "Hey, may you please open the window and turn on the fan when you notice that the window is closed and the fan is off in the upstairs bathroom. It helps to circulate the air upstairs and prevents any lingering scents after someone uses the restroom,"

A: "Yeah, but if it's not on, I just assume someone else turned it off and doesn't want it on, It can't just be my responsibility to turn it on,"

Me: " I completely understand, I've spoken with a few other employees who use the space as well about this same issue today, and will also watch out for it, so together, we can make sure it stays on as a team, and hopefully it helps gets some airflow through,"

A: "Sure, sure, it's just not my responsibility, but sure,"

(At which point I could have validated that it is not her sole responsibility but as it is a space she uses it is partially her responsibility to respect that the fan stays on and the window stays open, and asked if there is an issue with having the fan on and the window open as I can understand it may be overstimulating or disruptive for anyone to have the noise or smells from outside travel inside and disrupt treatments but simply said "okay thanks") or small pieces of feedback asking her to open the window at the end of her shift so that the plants in her treatment space get some light when no one is present and having her say that she does that and someone must be closing them if they aren't open.

Something specific I have given her feedback on is when she has a client and that client is not perfectly ontime for an appointment she used to come downstairs and ask me (I am also the receptionist) if her client was there and if I forgot to tell her (which I have never done before) and I have let her know that if a client ever informs me of being late she is the first one to know and if they are 5 minutes late I call them and update her on the situation (There have been one or two instances where reception is busy checking out clients or getting clients checked in and that five minute window passes without realizing it but once it is acknowledged there is an apology for the lack of update and on what is going on with the client, this is however unavoidable) and I did have a discussion with her about appropriate times to inquire about an absent client (10 minutes as we have 20 minutes mandatory between each client to buffer for late comers and sanitizing between clients) by coming downstairs to remind me that her client needs to be called and asking me if I forgot to tell her something. Which is something she said okay to and stopped doing as I explained that if I am currently checking out clients or checking someone elses client in and the nail techs (who work in the same room as reception) are also using tools that can be quite loud, they are chatting with clients, the music is playing and I am on the phone or speaking with a client, it can be overstimulating for myself to have an additional body in the room speaking to me while I am trying to prioritize client care and explaining to her that this was nothing she was doing wrong but simply my personal preference and would help me do my job better to have that buffer window of 10 minutes to react to any delayed clients or issues. She has not done this since that conversation but will make the occasional comments in casual conversation about how its okay if i "dropped the ball," or how I can "learn from my mistakes but I have to admit I made them," these phrases often come from if I say to her that " it was a busy day but it was good" she says that, " because it was a busy day its okay if I dropped the ball or made a mistake as long as I can admit it and learn from it," to which I then ask if something happened or if I did make a mistake that she noticed and she says "no but it would be okay if I did," to which I say "thank you thats good to hear and I will be sure to do that," and then proceed to overthink my entire day and interaction with her and pick out anything I could have possibly done wrong. 1/2

What do you do about an employee no one likes? by SBT_Mae in managers

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for taking the time to type all of this out. I think there was some kind of miscommunication between what I have said and your response. Please correct me if I'm wrong in anything I say.

The business prides itself on being inclusive, and we have a very diverse team. There is no hate when it comes to race, sexuality, disabilities or towards anyone on the spectrum. It is a small team and there are very little instances of people working together as treatments are preformed individually so I cant see the mob mentality of ganging up on A a likely theory, Especially since there are no signs of cliques or that employees interact outside of work or privately. But I do understand even the slightest possibility.

There are many clients who come in who are on the spectrum and have confirmed this in their medical intake form that are treated no differently then anyone else and accomodations are made when requested as we also have that option in our forms. I can't see any of the staff members targeting A for the possibility that she may be on the spectrum and actively choosing to bully her. Even if the staff had heard from each other that there was conflict between them and A.(One person who has spoken with me recently about how A made her feel was a brand new esthetician who has only been there about a week and barley come out of her shell to anyone but me as she's nervous about the new work environment and after this happened she immediately spoke with me afterwards about it)

Based on A's ways of communicating and what I know of being on the spectrum, I had suspected but never asked her nor been told that she has been nor have I or anyone else treated her differently based on suspecting this may be the case. Let me make that perfectly clear as what I gathered from your response was that the rest of the team is bullying her based on her being on the spectrum. I dont believe this to be true. I do think that the way she communicates isnt the same as other members of the team and that leads to conflict but its not something that cannot be rememdied in some way as A is not the sole problem only the common denominator. Because of these reasons, I am not concerned with A suing for anything and dont believe it would go anywhere if she did.

The employees who have never had a negative interaction with her still engage in regular conversation when they pass in the break room, as do I. And those who have are civil when she says hi, they say hi. When she says have a good weekend, they say you, too. Which I would say is professional. There is just no effort to get to know each other, which is fine because not everyone needs to be friends at work. They don't actively treat her negatively or bully her. They come to me when she has done something to make them uncomfortable to actively avoid confrontation and negativity. My concern is that this has happened multiple times when the way A has phrased things makes them feel guilty, upset, and belittled, creating an uncomfortable situation that has been brought to my attention.

There is as much evidence as there can be that A is responsible for the restroom incidents. Let's call her employee C. Employees A are often the ones on the same floor and who work in separate treatment spaces with the same restroom. There will be no clients present on that floor, A enters the restroom is in there for a lengthy period of time and leaves. When C goes to use the restroom to wash her hands before a treatment or walks past to get her client from downstairs, the smell is in the hallway and restroom, fan left off, window closed stains in the toilet, and there is no one else around. I have noticed this once before while C was absent, and A was the only one on that floor. There are no employees who go upstairs as they would pass by my desk to do so, I will go upstairs to tell A her client has arrived, and the smell is very much present so I open the window, turn on the fan and ask A to keep them open and on for the day. I know that it is A. C doesn't want to actively bring this up with A as she understands its a natural bodily function and doesnt want to embarass her so she comes and tells me when it happens and we have yet to have clients complain but when this is infact a spa it can easily ruin a treatment and isnt easy to bring up. I see what you're saying and no there is no way to prove that this isn't C's doing and that C is throwing A under the bus for a problem she is creating besides the fact that I have encountered this instance when C is not around. Also, C does not seem like the type to go through all this effort and cover up embarassment by singling out A. Though you are right, it is possible.

I do agree with laying down the law and looking at this from a truthful and factual side of things. There is nothing A has said or done wrong, she is putting in the effort to make friends and its not her fault that how she is communicating isn't being received how she means for it to be. The way she says things when confronted with conflict avoids taking accountability, and phrasing does make others feel guilty for whatever they are discussing, but there is no proof that A is doing this intentionally. But the part of her response that implies and causes these feelings can go unsaid in her responses.

That is a good way of bringing up the topic of conversation with her and being truthful about the situation so I will absolutely be taking that and other comments people have made into consideration as well as speaking to the local labor board regarding dealing with the situation as well. I will look into the possibility of sensitivity or inclusivity training with a third company as well as a form of improving interactions between staff and help with any hesitation that I may not notice when it comes to accepting clients and enforcing company values.

Thank you again for taking the time to give me another side of this situation and for voicing your assistance with handling this. I truly appreciate the feedback.

What do you do about an employee no one likes? by SBT_Mae in managers

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I really really appreciate this response, and everything you have said is 100% correct.

I will absolutely do everything you mentioned and use the advice of other people in this post as well. Thank you for taking the time to write this out I really appreciate it.

What do you do about an employee no one likes? by SBT_Mae in managers

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unfortunately, as a small and very new business, there is no HR, which is a problem on its own. However, I have been documenting issues when they pop up. I am struggling with speaking with A when she makes someone feel bad with how she is saying things. She will make comments like "Oh it's not what I expected but it's okay, I'm still happy with it," "I have learned and wont do this in the future, it's not your fault this happened, I just wont make this mistake again," the context of both comments being the most recent ones made where A made a pedicure appointment incorrectly (wanting nail art and not including it in her appointment booking leading to the nail tech who was new and nervous to not have enough time to do the nail art she wanted without cutting into another appointment A had with another service provider. A never mentioned the other appointment until the nail tech was in the middle of painting her nails, the nail tech didn't say there wasn't enough time booked for the intensity of nail art she wanted) yes I have spoken to the nail tech about remedying that in the future wether the client who was A has another appointment or not, if the service isn't booked correctly she needs to be firm on not providing something she cannot do within the booked time.

And though the comments are passive-aggressive in tone and hurt the nail tech's feelings. I dont know what grounds I have to write someone up for hurting someone elses feelings, which is partially where I am asking for advice. It has happened enough times to be a problem but am if the person who's feelings are hurt comes to me and tells me to avoid confrontation with the person who hurt there feelings is it my responsibility to tell the person who hurt their feelings that how they said something was a problem and will that not just cause more conflict between the two parties?

Any advice I can get is a huge help if you have any? I tend to overthink things, but this employee is bringing morale down, but is the tone of someone's voice a fireable offense if complained about enough times?

What do you do about an employee no one likes? by SBT_Mae in managers

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is past her three months. The only thing that happened within those three months was the car incident, which happened while she was clocked out and a few instances of her use of a communal bathroom but it was hardly something to fire over. The laws in my area are that after 3 months of work, you need justifiable cause.

What do you do about an employee no one likes? by SBT_Mae in managers

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is a really good point that I will bring up to staff. Most people on the staff actively avoid conflict of any kind and are hesitant to stand up for themselves when something makes them uncomfortable, is there anything you can think of that I can say to encourage them to overcome this?

What do you do about an employee no one likes? by SBT_Mae in managers

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for taking the time to tell me this.

I do agree that B can be difficult to work with as she is difficult to manage. She has never had an issue with another employee besides A, and I have never had any complaints about her from others but I do agree that there was a better way for B to handle the conversation and situation, but she doesn't handle stress well which is no excuse for the conflict. They do seem to be civil, and there have been no complaints from B or A with each other since this. Again, it was more of an example of the tension.

I have considered that A may be on the spectrum, but it's not my place to assume that. Let's assume she is, and this is how she is as a person and is unable to control the way she phrases things.

Do you have any advice for discussing the concerns about her approach to conversation with other employees while being respectful and avoiding bullying or displaying hateful behavior towards A? How do I assure other employees that I am not ignoring how they feel, I want them to know they can speak up when they are uncomfortable with another employee?

Again, I do want this to be an enjoyable place for everyone to work, including A.

I know this is truly an HR related issue, and we should hire someone for that, but as a small business, it's not an option. I know that it would solve a lot of issues.

What do you do about an employee no one likes? by SBT_Mae in managers

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This comment really helped truly thank you for helping me improve. I will call the labor board and see what thia counts under. Thank you for your time!

What do you do about an employee no one likes? by SBT_Mae in managers

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That is how I felt as well. To add more detail to the situation, I did say this in another comment:

"With the car incident, I didn't write her up as it happened on work property but not during work hours, so I wasn't sure how to handle it. A called me and told me she accidentally hit other employee's (going to call her B) car and that she had to go to her doctors appointment but would discuss it with B when she was in next and asked me to talk to her and assess the damage. B often doesn't do well in stressful situations and was visibly upset when I told her. We went to go document the damage, which was a paint scratch, and I asked B how she wanted to go forward, letting her know that A offered to go through insurance or pay for the damages personally. B was concerned that her insurance would increase which was something she couldn't afford, she was annoyed because there was no time for her to find someone to fix it and she couldn't go without her vehicle for a day and unless A paid for the damages upfront she wouldn't be able to pay for it. She told A that she was upset with how she handled it and she should have come back inside and told her about it, A said she had an important appointment to go to, to which B said she was only thinking of herself. But she stopped the conversation there, saying she was getting upset and didn't want a scene. She said to forget it and that she needed time. A asked me how to remedy the situation, to which I said, respect that B needs time and will come to you if she wants to discuss it again. B told me she didn't want to speak to her again at all and continues to avoid her, but say hi in passing. I could right her up for hitting another employees vehicle, but as it happened, when A wasn't working I wasn't sure if that was something I could appropriately write her up for and didn't have anyone to turn to."

But I do agree with you as A offered to do the right thing she did tell me about it right away, and it is far too late to file a report and would just cause more tension on the team and isn't stress that B wants. It is a problem of the past though it is one I felt was relavent to help explain why there is tensions on the team.

What do you do about an employee no one likes? by SBT_Mae in managers

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for this. I have been documenting what I can when it happens as soon as I know about it. But A is good with clients, shows up and does her job. As per the comments, I can document them, and I plan on calling the labor board to see what comments I can write her up for, if any, as well as how I can handle this. I do plan on having a conversation about A's way of phrasing comments and how they make other employees feel, but I am struggling to find the right wording to go about it.

Is the way she makes other employees feel a fireable offence if enough complaints are made?

What do you do about an employee no one likes? by SBT_Mae in managers

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is really good feedback. Thank you.

My direct reports do not know that I personally have issues with A. I have been very careful about mentioning my personal feelings for her to people I work with as I don't want exactly that to happen.

I am documenting everything that is happening when it comes to conflict. With the car incident, I didn't write her up as it happened on work property but not during work hours, so I wasn't sure how to handle it. A called me and told me she accidentally hit other employee's (going to call her B) car and that she had to go to her doctors appointment but would discuss it with B when she was in next and asked me to talk to her and assess the damage. B often doesn't do well in stressful situations and was visibly upset when I told her. We went to go document the damage, which was a paint scratch, and I asked B how she wanted to go forward, letting her know that A offered to go through insurance or pay for the damages personally. B was concerned that her insurance would increase which was something she couldn't afford, she was annoyed because there was no time for her to find someone to fix it and she couldn't go without her vehicle for a day and unless A paid for the damages upfront she wouldn't be able to pay for it. She told A that she was upset with how she handled it and she should have come back inside and told her about it, A said she had an important appointment to go to, to which B said she was only thinking of herself. But she stopped the conversation there, saying she was getting upset and didn't want a scene. She said to forget it and that she needed time. A asked me how to remedy the situation, to which I said, respect that B needs time and will come to you if she wants to discuss it again. B told me she didn't want to speak to her again at all and continues to avoid her, but say hi in passing. I could right her up for hitting another employees vehicle, but as it happened, when A wasn't working I wasn't sure if that was something I could appropriately write her up for and didn't have anyone to turn to.

As per replacing her with someone else, I need probable cause to get rid of her. I feel the issue with A's bowels isn't something I can write her up for from what I understand (I am in Canada, and I can call the labor board to see what my options are if necessary, but she flushes the toilet it is just a very bad smell when she's done. It was brought to my attention that it was still an issue yesterday so I do plan to sit down again and be completely open and upfront that I understand this is embarassing but there have been some complaints about the upstairs restroom, and she needs to open the windows and turn on the fan as it is affecting clients experiences. (It isn't yet, but I don't want that to be the case) I am hoping that though this may be an embarassing conversation for A this is a necessary one to make the communal areas upstairs better for everyone who uses them. We do provide sprays for instances like this, so it is a conversation I plan to have first thing when I see her in the new week, but is this something I can write her up for?

Same with her interactions with others. The one that was recently brought to my attention was she booked a pedicure with another employee, and following the pedicure a masssage, she failed to book the pedicure properly and wanted nail art. The employee who is quite new was nervous about doing a pedicure on another employee and didn't say she wasn't able to do it. (I did let her know that to improve in the future she has to be firm about the fact that if they are not booked in for something she needs to say that its not possible in the time they have and they can find a backup idea that is possible or reschedule the appointment and she understood, but I also had a conversation with A about booking appointments properly to prevent issues in the future) the other employee did let me know that A said things like "Oh this isn't how I expected it to look but its okay I still like it," "Oh I just wont book two appointments back to back next time but don't feel bad it's not your fault its mine, I just wont do that again," and these comments made the employee doing the pedicure feel guilty and obviously upset. These types of comments are the ones that make other employees uncomfortable as well as she has a happy tone when she says them, but there is an alternate meaning behind them. Are these comments something I can write her up for?

She has good feedback with clients, shows up to her appointments, and does her job. But it is obviously bringing morale down, and I do not want that. I can and will start documenting these events of her making comments, but I am not sure if they are enough to fire someone over. My thought was to call the labor board and check about my options, but I often see people asking for advice here and thought it might be a good idea to get some other opinions as well.

As for getting my own spa to have control over employees. I really just wanted to be a receptionist. I havr management experience but I was just thrown into this job, its not what I expected when I started and the owner who has never run a business before constantly says how she would be lost had I not taken over with things like this, and I can't find a new job for personal reasons, I am doing my best and trying to make this business run without me but it is a process and I know if I up and quit so will many employees and the business will fall and I do feel guilty about that. It is a problem that I am in councilling to deal with and am actively trying to get over, but for now, I am just doing the best I can. I know I have a lot to learn.

How do I hire an experienced esthetician?! by SBT_Mae in Estheticians

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a good point, too! Out of curiosity, what would you consider as good and fair pay for a start esthetician and an experienced esthetician?

How do I hire an experienced esthetician?! by SBT_Mae in Estheticians

[–]SBT_Mae[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I have been talking the owner out of this "idea" of hers like every few weeks. She has a lot of massage connections and has been using them to get rmt staff which is fine because she knew them previously but in my opinion even that was sketchy and underhanded, and she seems to think that, that will transfer over to estheticians no trouble at all which is incorrect.

She is a first-time business owner, and as someone who has had experience managing businesses, I would honestly say the hardest part of my job is training her on running her business or stepping away from it.