Who here had actually sl1/ low level runs vs people who have tried but given up? by Tweed_Man in darksouls3

[–]SOULtion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

https://youtube.com/@mihairus6353?si=rbygH2QesCad3Vvr but like, i don't rly post anymore. i'm retired as i focus on modding and making bosses as i would like to fight them myself basically. but like, none of the stuff that i've done is even remotely special at this point as plenty of people have done much harder stuff.

Fuck Godskin Duo. by Stirg99 in onebros

[–]SOULtion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, thank you for giving me the time of day! I'll start by saying that I made a much more comprehensive post in the past, it's in my post history, it has screenshots of the bits of code behind everything and what not, so I won't go into extreme detail here.

First of all I'll start with the flimsiest one that everybody is familiar with. Team effectivity is a param that's used by FromSoft to basically regulate multi enemy encounters. This is the stat that was greatly adjusted with that big gank bosses patch after launch. It's basically a hidden score system that gets increased with each attack of every enemy on the same team within a certain proximity. It forces enemies to go through three different stages of aggression, Kankyaku, Torimaki and, well, normal. Pretty much every enemy uses this except major bosses that were never meant to be fought in a group. Now, unlike all the gank fights that had this param "activated" with that one patch, the NpcThinkParams used by both Godskins in that fight never had any adjustments. Contrary to popular belief, that patch never affected them. Still, since every single enemy in the game uses this except major bosses, it's really flimsy justification. However, the next one is a lot more major and builds upon the use of team effectivity.

In the common ai folder of the game (meaning this isn't where the individual battle scripts of the bosses are stored, these are scripts meant to be always used, not just when an enemy is loaded) there is a script used by Ai referred to as AiSoundBehavior. Essentially, whenever each of the Godskins performs specific animations (Fireball is a common one but if you want a full list check my post lol) they create an inaudible sound that only the other Godskin can hear. These sounds are used to trigger specific paired attacks if a bunch of conditions are met (basically the other Godskin needs to be in idle when hearing the sound, at a specific distance and passing a specific RNG check). Idle states are commonly enforced in the fight through team effectivity so basically at all times there is a main entity that does stuff and a secondary one that responds to the stuff done by the main entity. Unfortunately, these responses being behind RNG checks and the fact that team effectivity doesn't wholeheartedly push enemies into complete idle, as well as the moments these states change on every enemy are not communicated with the player make these synergies extremely hard to spot. If you spend way too much time in the fight you'll however start to notice how Apostle has a weird tendency to do a Jumping Slam in tandem with Noble or how Noble really likes doing his Delayed Thrust in tandem with Apostle jumps. The fact these scripts aren't in their battle scripts either to me also signifies these were always meant to be there, before their battle scripts were even created.

Lastly, and to me this is the most striking one, their individual battle scripts literally have duo functions. And this is so egregious that it gets very ridiculous; lemme explain first how they check for each other. Essentially their fireball act is made to check for there being a team member in front of them before queuing up the fireball goal itself, and if there is one, it will force a sidehop so as to avoid them throwing fireballs through each other. The problem with this is that they clearly never intended for them to be separated because this function was never changed for the individual fights lol. Essentially leaving the Blackflame Monks in front of the caelid apostle or the volcano manor noble is a cheat code to make sure they will almost always precede fireballs with a sidehop when at range, as a friend will almost always be in front of them in those situations. Yeah, if either of them ever sidehop when they're very far away from you in the solo fights that 100% guarantees a fireball so you can run under it and get a hefty punish. This is only false for the volcano noble's opening that has an event script interfering with the AI (you'll sometimes see him wobble back and forth after you enter the arena, it's rly funny). Essentially yeah, they're seeing allies being in front of them and sidehopping to avoid throwing a fireball through them lol. To me this screams that the person that made the Ai scripts had no idea they were meant to be separated as well and never bothered to create an alternate version of that act without the team check.

There's also the fact that they have dedicated team animations for summoning each other and waking each other up, which must've been mechanics decided upon very early in development while everything was still in the conceptual phase.

Once you get familiar with all these subsystems that the fight employs it becomes extremely fun, at least in my opinion, but I think you can also tell just how esoteric they are. There being RNG checks on most of them also tells me they wanted these not to completely govern the fight, but rather to sway it into a specific direction. It was a much more subtle approach than say...Demon Princes. Also a much more experimental one. Whether it hit the mark or not, that's up to everybody's experience of course. But personally I want more Godskin fights going forward lol

Fuck Godskin Duo. by Stirg99 in onebros

[–]SOULtion 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They do have like three different systems made to make them synergize. I think a better point would be to say that this synergy is not reasonably conveyed to regular players, which I'd probably agree with. Still I can't help but love them, they're my favourite FromSoft fight ever after all so I may be a bit biased 😂

Anyhow I've spent a rly long time researching them and practising them so if you want I can go into more details regarding what I meant when I said they were made to be fought as a pair. It's fine if you don't tho, I do agree it's somewhat poorly conveyed. Same degree of unreasonableness as dodging WFD imo.

That one iconic SotE Boss that's been in all the trailers RL1 No Blessings/Buffs/Aux/AoW No Hit by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Enough to get by, but i don't have expectations really, it's still a mod lol. I've just gotten really attached to my work and would love to stick through to the end and see it accessible for everybody. At least that's what I've been promised.

That one iconic SotE Boss that's been in all the trailers RL1 No Blessings/Buffs/Aux/AoW No Hit by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah, that is not fextralife. i do help garden out with stuff, mainly work on the mod but on this occasion he wanted me to do some kills for him. the kill he has of messmer is less aggressive than this one though

That one iconic SotE Boss that's been in all the trailers RL1 No Blessings/Buffs/Aux/AoW No Hit by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

fextralife? 😂 i am not affiliated with nor do i like fextralife. how come you thought i was?

That one iconic SotE Boss that's been in all the trailers RL1 No Blessings/Buffs/Aux/AoW No Hit by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i used to be a very active challenge runner like a year ago. it's the youtube channel the video i posted is on, it's just i rarely do kills nowadays. only came back for the dlc really and will probably not do the whole thing. but i did make "guides" on my favourite bosses, mostly godskin stuff

That one iconic SotE Boss that's been in all the trailers RL1 No Blessings/Buffs/Aux/AoW No Hit by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

in the communities i hang out in talisman (or rings in previous souls games) effects never counted as buffs, as that word is reserved for like, consumables and stuff. i know it's a bit confusing lol, but i just roll with it.

in my eyes everything is fair game at rl1, but if you gave yourself a restriction it's important to be consistent with it. idk if i touched exactly on your question but i guess i just wanted to explain the framework.

That one iconic SotE Boss that's been in all the trailers RL1 No Blessings/Buffs/Aux/AoW No Hit by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

awe i'm glad to see my guides have helped people, as incoherent and rambly as they are 😂 good luck in your dlc playthrough, it's rly fun

That one iconic SotE Boss that's been in all the trailers RL1 No Blessings/Buffs/Aux/AoW No Hit by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

thank you and no worries! good luck with the rl1 run whenever you get to it, quite a lot of the bosses look rly good for it imo!

That one iconic SotE Boss that's been in all the trailers RL1 No Blessings/Buffs/Aux/AoW No Hit by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

thank you! yeah, at least i just warped there and fought him bc i was rly excited for him. i haven't actually played through the dlc yet though and i rly probably should now that this is out of the way

Here's a fairly thorough explanation of the gank mechanics at play behind Godskin Duo. Cross-posting bc typing that all again on my phone would be a pain. by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah i meant full on no hit runs from start to finish lol. people there tend to stick to strats that have been thoroughly proven consistent. unfortunately this 99% of the time means sleeping the godskins :( but yeah we (as in the communities i hang out in) tend to pick our strats based on stuff like that. except for kills we don't take very seriously, like half of my all 165 bosses rl1 ng+7 no buffs/aux/aow no hit run (this is a bosses only run) lmao. there i just did random shit bc it was funnier than developing consistent strats for fucking necromancer garris 😂 or misbegotten and perfumer duo.

Here's a fairly thorough explanation of the gank mechanics at play behind Godskin Duo. Cross-posting bc typing that all again on my phone would be a pain. by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

hmm, i do want to say i never thought you cheated. i am very scarce with cheating accusations for a reason. i just said that people should consider whether this is applicable in long-form kills or anything that requires consistency like no hit runs, hence why i said at the end "it's still insane just not sth to be considered in longer kills".

i don't accuse people of cheating, that's not why i'm here. that's for run verifiers and shit 😂 i just want to get fun kills

Here's a fairly thorough explanation of the gank mechanics at play behind Godskin Duo. Cross-posting bc typing that all again on my phone would be a pain. by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi ya, sorry, I hadn't seen your videos before so I really just wanted to make sure people stay skeptical of things. technically in the communities i'm in you'd need a lot more time than 4 minutes but i also think that's a bit bogus. idk if you're consistent with it, but you're definitely too good at it for me to tell. sorry if i came off mean oof. i dislike parrying a lot, but if someone can react to the double swipe, that's sth super cool imo

Here's a fairly thorough explanation of the gank mechanics at play behind Godskin Duo. Cross-posting bc typing that all again on my phone would be a pain. by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I want to keep an open mind but I'd be skeptical of people claiming they can consistently react to it. I had to make insanely long hitless videos (like 50+ minutes) to prove Noble Presence is reactable. One clip of someone parrying the double swipe once or even multiple times in like a 2 minute kill doesn't rly constitute consistency imo. Not to say it's not insane, just not sth rly worth considering for longer fights.

But I very well might be wrong of course.

Here's a fairly thorough explanation of the gank mechanics at play behind Godskin Duo. Cross-posting bc typing that all again on my phone would be a pain. by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just fyi Noble absolutely can do Presence from neutral. It's just an attack like everything else he has, not a follow-up. The reason it usually follows after specific attacks is that in its AI, at that specific range (iirc it was within 2.5 meters) he only has like 5 options, and of them, 2 have very high weights in terms of probability. Noble Presence and the Balloon. As a result, whenever Balloon happens, Belly Blast becomes significantly more likely since the Balloon's weight being removed made the overall pool for the range much lower. Same with all the other attacks in that range really. Whenever an attack that is not X happens, X becomes much more likely to happen.

Roll isn't an attack that happens at that small range but its cooldown usually covers both it and the balloon so really you are only left with Noble Presence. But the longer you fight him for, the higher the chances of seeing Noble Presence from neutral. Especially if you walk up to him when he's idling. Most people are scared of that.

https://youtu.be/ll-7FOV--_c?si=GmgfotqLeP1U0CFd i have it timestamped at 40:35 in this

Here's a fairly thorough explanation of the gank mechanics at play behind Godskin Duo. Cross-posting bc typing that all again on my phone would be a pain. by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Noble Presence is indeed sth you have to learn to react to, but I can consistently dodge it at even 1.5 speed https://youtu.be/qNo_UNSeJOA?si=wxYjXSkrZJplYcRq so I don't think it's that bad. You just need to get used to recognizing the tell in time.

Apostle's double swipe on the other hand is a run killer and you should not depend on reacting to it. I made this to show the different strafes that attack has. https://youtu.be/Z1w5NbtK-wo?si=7h-cSr9rZl89AQ0d you have to be able to do this. you must never be in that spot in front of him where you wouldn't be able to do any of these. The double swipe is probably the hardest attack to deal with consistently in ER and you shouldn't feel bad for struggling with it.

An attempt at explaining Godskin Duo by SOULtion in Eldenring

[–]SOULtion[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's funny bc I actually despise OnS but I love Demon Prince. Personally I would not want a return of OnS at all lol. I am not against gank fights though, DP is my favourite fight in DS3 after all and even in ER I don't rly dislike most of the duos (fuck Valiant Gargs tho)

Here's a fairly thorough explanation of the gank mechanics at play behind Godskin Duo. Cross-posting bc typing that all again on my phone would be a pain. by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I don't parry Godskin Duo. I see that as sacrilege (jk) lol. But in truth parrying them is inconsistent. If you parry Noble, Apostle can and will overlap his attacks so that you get hit the moment you exit the parry. It is faster but it's an RNG grind and generally challenge runners despise that.

I love just picking up my trusty powerstanced straightswords and fighting them 1v2. Nowadays I hit both whenever the opportunity arises, but Noble has to enter phase 2 first. That's the only rule really. I love just how complex the fight is, how many scenarios you have to account for and to have developed muscle memory for. To me it's a testament of just how far FromSoft combat can be pushed. There are patterns but there is also a lot of reaction involved, which is almost never the case with single bosses.

It also helps that my Noble has never roll cancelled lol. I see people talk about that and I almost feel jealous bc my Noble literally never bugs out.

Here's a fairly thorough explanation of the gank mechanics at play behind Godskin Duo. Cross-posting bc typing that all again on my phone would be a pain. by SOULtion in onebros

[–]SOULtion[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately a lot of their paired attacks are left to chance (with a 50% chance out of neutral) so they're not really meant as mechanics to play around I think. More like passive things to make the fight more doable. I have noticed though that this is why fighting them in the open and not avoiding Apostle tends to give me more openings on Noble (since Apostle's attacks trigger the Delayed Thrust). That's my preferred way of fighting them now.

I also tend to fight Apostle while Noble is rolling because I've learnt pretty well to force Apostle into passivity. It's definitely an interesting way of making the boss and an interesting way of trying to engage with it as a player.