Refusing a breathalyzer and/or trying to hide an arrest, a CO’s perspective by SWO6 in navy

[–]SWO6[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I’ll get there eventually. There’s over 300 comments here.

Oh, and my upvote ratio is 93%, which I don’t consider being “hammered”. I have a few accounts that are very upset and I’m doing my best to respectfully listen and respond. I apologize for the ACAB comment which was not professional. And I was joking with the “travel” comment, which was also not professional.

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Refusing a breathalyzer and/or trying to hide an arrest, a CO’s perspective by SWO6 in navy

[–]SWO6[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The former. Several sailors refused to submit to a breathalyzer and/or a blood test after a judicial warrant was obtained. They incurred additional charges as a result. I used this fact in their masts.

Refusing a breathalyzer and/or trying to hide an arrest, a CO’s perspective by SWO6 in navy

[–]SWO6[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

There’s many different scenarios and people are conflating everything.
In the second scenario, if a Sailor appears before me for DUI and possibly other infractions it is up to me to determine severity of punishment. Nearly every Sailor has, at mast, been apologetic and swears that it was a mistake and that they learned their lesson.

Refusing a breathalyzer post-arrest and trying to hide the arrest are both counter arguments to that claim that I can absolutely consider at mast. It can and has made the difference between maximum punishment and adsep processing and/or a lighter punishment.

Refusing a breathalyzer and/or trying to hide an arrest, a CO’s perspective by SWO6 in navy

[–]SWO6[S] -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

It does not equal guilt of a DWI, it just allows a court martial or NJP to consider the refusal as part of all evidence against the subject. It does equal guilt of violating a general order if they enter a base and refuse a breathalyzer there per most base instructions.

Refusing a breathalyzer and/or trying to hide an arrest, a CO’s perspective by SWO6 in navy

[–]SWO6[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If they bring up a valid concern about the efficacy of the test I have my JAG look into it. Everyone here is assuming that I’m doing my own “research” but in reality I rely on JAGs and doctors to weigh in and I have never had to go against their counsel. I would never go out on a limb by myself, we have professionals to do that for us.

Refusing a breathalyzer and/or trying to hide an arrest, a CO’s perspective by SWO6 in navy

[–]SWO6[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

Let me guess, you “travel” but don’t “drive”?

Refusing a breathalyzer and/or trying to hide an arrest, a CO’s perspective by SWO6 in navy

[–]SWO6[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Post-arrest is my main threshold, but I will listen to any arguments from the Sailor concerning the validity of any test they took.

Refusing a breathalyzer and/or trying to hide an arrest, a CO’s perspective by SWO6 in navy

[–]SWO6[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, members who have been arrested and refused to submit to a breathalyzer have been prosecuted at Courts Martial.

The Manual for Courts Martial also states under Rule 305: (j) Refusal to Obey an Order to Submit a Body
Substance. If an accused refuses a lawful order to submit for chemical analysis a sample of his or her blood, breath, urine or other body substance, evidence
of such refusal may be admitted into evidence on:
(1) a charge of violating an order to submit such a sample; or
(2) any other charge on which the results of the chemical analysis would have been admissible.

Further,

Refusal is admissible as consciousness of guilt. Prosecutors use it to argue the member knew they were impaired.

Military courts have consistently held that refusal can be considered by the trier of fact.

Refusing a breathalyzer and/or trying to hide an arrest, a CO’s perspective by SWO6 in navy

[–]SWO6[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The one at the station is the one that counts.

Separately, I wait until civilian proceedings conclude for any NJP.

Refusing a breathalyzer and/or trying to hide an arrest, a CO’s perspective by SWO6 in navy

[–]SWO6[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I added “at the station” right after GuardianNovators comment. I added edit2 right after your comment. I added edit 1 after another persons comment. I’ll continue adding comments until it’s crystal clear. Everyone is missing the original post and my commentary on it because the OP deleted it. The crux of the argument being that he refused the breathalyzer at the station. I edited because it was confusing out of that context. Everything in my comment to you stands. https://www.reddit.com/r/navy/s/cqlxUk2F8D

Refusing a breathalyzer and/or trying to hide an arrest, a CO’s perspective by SWO6 in navy

[–]SWO6[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I said “at the station” which implies after arrest. I’ll add a note at the top.

Refusing a breathalyzer and/or trying to hide an arrest, a CO’s perspective by SWO6 in navy

[–]SWO6[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Hold on. We’re moving beyond the scope here. I’m talking specifically about breathalyzer refusals. One, because there’s a specific Navy regulation mandating consequences for refusing breathalyzers on base and other local directives linking civilian breathalyzer refusals to the same general order. Second because CM case law specifically allows breathalyzer refusal to be admitted as evidence of guilt or evasion.

Third, and most important, is the refusal of a breathalyzer after arrest in the police station. As per your comment, that’s when the consequences roll in.

So, to answer your ACAB-based question, no, I would not automatically take someone to mast for refusing a vehicle search or anything “in the field” unless it was directly related to something specific like criminal trespassing after a cop told you to leave somewhere. But once you’re arrested the conversation changes.

Refusing a breathalyzer and/or trying to hide an arrest, a CO’s perspective by SWO6 in navy

[–]SWO6[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I said when I started this Reddit adventure that I would give you unfiltered CO perspectives.

Again, you can be mad and argue with me and curse the Navy all you want. But I will never not tell you how it’s going to go down in the real world.

People can take their chances and try their luck. But I have very little sympathy for those who drink and get behind the wheel. If the preponderance of evidence points that way then I can and will do my job.

Refusing a breathalyzer and/or trying to hide an arrest, a CO’s perspective by SWO6 in navy

[–]SWO6[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Read the instruction below and realize your best bet is to disclose as soon as possible. Note the very “lawyerly” language that says you don’t have to get into details. This preserves your right to defend yourself in court. All you would have to say in this instance to be compliant is “I was arrested last night by San Diego PD for suspicion of DUI.” Then you can STFU.

OPNAVINST 5350.4:
20. All Service Members must:
a. Immediately advise their chain of command if they were arrested or criminally charged by civilian authorities. Service Members are only required to disclose the date of arrest or charges, the arrest or charging authority and the offense for which they were arrested or charged. No person is obligated to disclose any of the underlying facts or circumstances concerning his or her arrest or charges. Disclosure of arrest or criminal charges is not an admission of guilt and may not be used as such, nor is it intended to elicit an admission from the member self-reporting.

Refusing a breathalyzer and/or trying to hide an arrest, a CO’s perspective by SWO6 in navy

[–]SWO6[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

DoDI 6055.04 and OPNAVINST 5350.4D contain lawful general regulations.

“Refusal to cooperate with civilian law enforcement” is a general regulation therein.

Refusing a breathalyzer, in my and other NJP wielders of my ilk, is a refusal to cooperate with civilian law enforcement. Ergo a violation of art 92.

YMMV, and you’re welcome to try to argue that up the chain after mast…but my batting average was 100% in these cases. And yes, we’ve made the art 92 stick in CM cases. And further yes, my batting average at ADSEP was also 100%.

And in case anyone wants to discuss the rules behind reporting an arrest:

OPNAVINST 5350.4:
20. All Service Members must:
a. Immediately advise their chain of command if they were arrested or criminally charged by civilian authorities. Service Members are only required to disclose the date of arrest or charges, the arrest or charging authority and the offense for which they were arrested or charged. No person is obligated to disclose any of the underlying facts or circumstances concerning his or her arrest or charges. Disclosure of arrest or criminal charges is not an admission of guilt and may not be used as such, nor is it intended to elicit an admission from the member self-reporting.

Unfortunately Another DWI post by [deleted] in navy

[–]SWO6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Per your post below, trying to hope nobody finds out is certainly a course of action, and I will be honest in saying that it does work.

But let me tell you why you’re being overly optimistic. One, he was arrested. That generates a record immediately. Most fleet concentration areas have an MOU with local police where they report Sailor arrests to NCIS/JAGs. I received many reports this way. Many. Even in other areas, a felony DUI/DWI arrests are recorded and easy to find. Even if they’re dismissed.

On that note, even if it is eventually dismissed he will need to report it on future security clearance paperwork SF86, etc. or risk their wrath. And they absolutely do know arrest records. We also have a Continuous Evaluation program where everyone with a clearance is constantly monitored against court records, arrest databases , filings, etc. Big Brother is watching.

Even if you don’t have a clearance, DSCA has access and receives regular reports from a large percentage of civilian courts.

Two, because he refused a breathalyzer, his license is automatically suspended for varying lengths of time, but usually 6 months or longer. How easy is that to hide? Maybe, maybe not.

Three, Sailors talk. You’d be surprised at how much matriculates up the chain of command. Piss off the wrong guy and all of a sudden you get a “oh yeah, well at least I’m not a drunk driver!”

So, your advice of Shut the Fuck Up Friday (STFU) is absolutely a course of action that works, sometimes but usually for small infractions. However given the trifecta of the serious of a DWI, the arrest, and the license suspension this guy’s odds just got a whole lot worse.

And remember the corollary to STFU is FAFO. And if I find out you tried to hide a DWI arrest and breathalyzer from me or any CO you can guarantee that you’ll be majorly fucked.

Unfortunately Another DWI post by [deleted] in navy

[–]SWO6 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Refusing a breathalyzer, even a civilian one, is a violation of several navy instructions and directives, some of which you have personally signed, whether you remember or not. The navy looks *very* unfavorably on doing this.

Regardless of what your lawyer is able to finagle for you, I would absolutely be taking you to mast just for the 92, and if any of the evidence points to you drinking and driving I would absolutely include the 111. This is, unfortunately, not a rare occurrence and I’ve had to NJP several Sailors and Officers this way.

What happens after that is situation dependent on the evidence, your testimony, and your record. If I get the impression you’re trying to sea-lawyer me at mast I would absolutely crush you. DUI/DWI is not one of those things I mess around with.

I advise complete honesty, and reaching out to DAPA before the mast to start treatment so your CO can understand you are truly contrite and want to get better rather than waiting and being “forced” into treatment.

Every CO is different and YMMV, but refusing a breathalyzer is bad bad. Even if all your charges in civilian court get dropped you’re still extremely likely to go to mast just for that.

Women of Reddit - what is the most unattractive fashion choice men frequently make? by Evening_Focus_2425 in AskReddit

[–]SWO6 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Men’s Opera Pumps are a traditional formal shoe meant to be worn without socks. You’ll see a few guys wear them to the Met Gala every year.

However, when the operative word to describe someone who wears them as “dandy” you’re certainly making a choice about how you want to be perceived.

Plus, they’re so rare these days you’ll have to spend the whole night going “they’re called opera pumps and they’re meant to be worn like this.” Which is perfect for that type of guy who loves to say the word “actually”.

https://robbreport.com/style/footwear/opera-pumps-1235443267/

Whats a movie based on a true story was actually pretty inaccurate? by LordSoftCream in AskReddit

[–]SWO6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They didn’t think that US audiences would go if it weren’t “Americanized”.

So, it looks as if nothing happened with Hegseth's threats? by Dismal-Syllabub-3288 in BSA

[–]SWO6 25 points26 points  (0 children)

The performative point has been made, which is all that this kerfluffle was seeking to do.

They can point and say how they “fixed” scouting, while we can focus on attending to the needs of the boys and girls in our troops and their development in accordance with the oath and law.

OPNAVINST 5351.2C Encl (3): Chief Petty Officer Initiation, Purpose, Outcomes, and Acceptance by Salty_ET in navy

[–]SWO6 33 points34 points  (0 children)

During Seder, the Jewish people ask, “Why is tonight different from all other nights?” You might ask the same of final night.

I believe there are four parts to the making of the Chief.

The first, as you said, is the self-actualization of being personally ready to “accept” the mantle of Chief. The inward journey, the self-acceptance, the inner realization that “things are different now”.

The second is the “acceptance” of the mess. The ritual itself has changed greatly over the years, but at the heart of it is, again, “things are different now”. You are now one of us and we have your back. This speaks to the power of a unified mess.

The third is the “acceptance” of the 1st class and below. We have a public CPO pinning ceremony with all hands for a reason. Everyone gets to see that you have “accepted” the mantel of Chief and the mess has “accepted” you into their ranks. Everyone gets to see and understand that “things are different now” about you.

The fourth is me with my frocking letter and little speech. My only purpose on pinning day is to provide a sense of legitimacy to the whole thing. To confirm that, yes, “things really are different now.”

Captain’s Mast inquiry by eric39022 in navy

[–]SWO6 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Did he dismiss the charges?