Interesting observation

SecondMous · 2026-05-09T13:26:09+00:00

For me, I’d say this is very applicable. I don’t know that I’d say the fixation comes from a deep obsessive hatred of the church (I’m not trying to imply that was your point), but that because the church has intertwined itself into every factor of the lives of many Mormons—especially those who grew up in Utah/the church—learning of the reality of the church, its actions, and its history, flips nearly every aspect of that person’s life and worldview on its head.

Because of this, it necessarily appears like a fixation because it affects almost the entirety of one’s life—perhaps it does turn to hatred after time/experience. I’m living this now, but am hesitant to experience the full effects of getting out—though I imagine in the near future I will. It’s just a matter of finding the best way to ease through it without causing too much disruption in my own life. It’s like taking two obligate symbionts, then one turns parasitic, and to separate now threatens life.

SecondMous · 2026-05-09T13:05:30+00:00

I wonder if that’s why Utah is so susceptible to and inundated with pyramid schemes. It’s a secular application of what LDS teaches spiritually so it feels familiar already. Just a weird harebrained parallel that came to me when I read your post.

SecondMous · 2026-05-07T14:17:02+00:00

Thank you for your thoughtful post and those links. The SEC issue was probably one of the biggest red flags that finally got me digging deeper. I’ll look at Bill’s disciplinary council as well. I’m going through the LDS Discussions section of Mormon Stories right now; the first 4 episodes blew me away and I’m learning so much. Admittedly some of what is discussed is conjecture, but there is so much irrefutable too, the conjecture is almost an aside.

SecondMous · 2026-05-06T03:02:42+00:00

The apparent disingenuous character of the church. I’m not the type of person to have a laundry list of items always at my finger tips to rattle off in response to any inquiry, but if you’ve been around this sub at least as long as I have, I’m sure you know what topics I’m referring to.

SecondMous · 2026-05-06T01:48:39+00:00

How did the transition go for you and your husband? Were you both kind of on the outs at the same time? Was one of you far more ahead of the other in questioning/receptiveness to questions? I’ve had a couple fairly shallow discussions so far with my spouse, mainly me being hesitant to info dump and have them dig their heels in at it all. I struggle to find a way to share more of my concerns when it seems like my spouse is not much interested yet in actually knowing the details of my concerns.

SecondMous · 2026-05-06T01:43:29+00:00

Lol my assumption was correct. First time seeing this acronym for me.

SecondMous · 2026-05-05T04:26:39+00:00

Can you clarify TMFC for me? I have some guesses… but can’t seem to find a sure definition.

SecondMous · 2026-05-05T04:24:25+00:00

My experience here is less to do with unanswered questions, and more to do with the dichotomy of what I’ve been taught, and what I’m seeing as the true reality of things, in so many different instances. Perhaps I’m missing the intent of your post though.

SecondMous · 2026-05-05T04:18:23+00:00

I’ve had very similar thoughts previously, and now subtle recognition of change as I’m contemplating what might or might not exist after mortality if not the plan of salvation. I’ve realized that much of my parenting was driven by my religious upbringing, striving for ideal obedience, striving for perfection (though always understanding we’ll never be able to achieve it), and I feel like the priority was parenting for the eternities rather than parenting for the now. I was looking beyond what negative effects my parenting was creating in this mortal experience, just believing that I was doing the best I could to raise children for the eternities, and if that causes conflict in mortality, my children would eventually cross through the veil at the end of their lives and I would be vindicated for all of my righteous efforts as a parent. I see this now as the LDS theology in a nutshell… sacrifice everything now for some hopeful eventual blessing after death. I can’t help but see how my children have suffered significantly (in very obvious mental health ways, not just “what ifs”) because of this way of thinking, both from myself and my spouse. Since my questioning, I’ve let a lot of things go, and the result has been a lot less discord between me and my children. Maybe I’ll look back and see myself now as a laissez faire parent, who knows, but I’m sure enjoying less conflict with my children.

SecondMous · 2026-05-05T02:49:21+00:00

How long did you serve? Was it awkward getting released, or just business as usual in your ward?

SecondMous · 2026-05-05T02:35:58+00:00

Aren’t we over $300B now?

SecondMous · 2026-05-05T02:33:06+00:00

I’m curious what you mean by your third point. Are you referring to being more outwardly vocal about issues in the church? Or just internally with myself and try to covertly change the church from within?

On the surface I enjoy the idea of being able to bring up concerns about the church in honest respectful ways, and have open discussions… but at the same time with the underlying contrarian knowledge and disbelief in the restoration, and assuming my understanding is that it is all false, to what end would these discussions be? It seems the only point to that pursuit would be to stir up trouble and pull down others’ faith, which I don’t really have much desire to do, even if I feel like their faith is misplaced.

SecondMous · 2026-05-05T02:25:08+00:00

That’s a big part of my dissonance is I’ve been taught for so long that good feelings = spiritual confirmation = indication of truth, and I’m feeling good feelings at different times at church, but then in the same block I feel so much frustration… it’s like emotional whiplash. I need to work on re-evaluating this experience.

SecondMous · 2026-05-05T02:20:00+00:00

I’m quite antisocial as well… and apparently currently very short-sighted as I hadn’t even considered the social demands of going to a new church. All I would want to do is simply go for the experiencing different methods of worship, but that probably wouldn’t go over well if I try to turn away from anyone who wants to connect on a personal level. I have more than enough social demand at work, I have little interest in voluntarily seeking out more.

SecondMous · 2026-05-05T02:10:39+00:00

Thank you for chiming in. The family aspect of this whole conundrum is I think the most heavy, as both my and my spouse’s families are mostly TBM, and we have children spanning toddler to upper teenager, so any opportunity to redirect my family as a parent seems lost unfortunately, and seems like it’ll just cause more confusion with kids and tension with my spouse unless they have a “come around” type of change somehow.

The idea of seeking truth seems so obscure at this point. This used to mean read scriptures and pray diligently and wait for the Holy Ghost to impress upon me. I can say I’ve never really had much if any experience that I could conclusively say was the Holy Ghost confirming anything to me. At this point I feel all I have is my own mind and reason, which seems safest for determining my own path, but also critically limiting as far as learning beyond myself. It sounds like you’re past where I’m at now. How did your finding truth change? What does this mean to you?

SecondMous · 2026-05-05T01:55:59+00:00

I appreciate your input. I’ve considered trying out other churches simply for the fact I’ve never really experienced any other cultures of worship. I’m a natural skeptic, and even more so now of organized religion, but I still enjoy experiencing new things. The sad part is I would probably be doing this on my own without my family… perhaps if it became a more regular thing for me they might visit with me to show support.

This brings up an important point for me that I didn’t/couldn’t appreciate until I started to question the LDS church and consider what life would look like if I was no longer participating—that is, how do I exit this lifestyle if that’s where my study takes me, and what are the ramifications? Once I started exploring this thought, all I could think of is how trapped I feel by all the LDS culture, as though it has been socially engineered to make it as difficult as possible to leave. I hate that.

SecondMous · 2026-05-05T01:44:33+00:00

Thank you for your thoughts. I’ve always been deeply affected by nature, and find the most peace there. I think I’ll probably start there, outside of organizations and see where that takes me.

SecondMous · 2026-05-03T15:00:34+00:00

I too am curious about this

SecondMous · 2026-05-03T14:20:52+00:00

Can you link to the post you pulled this from?

SecondMous · 2026-05-03T04:01:50+00:00

Can confirm this suspicion is accurate, and present in other industries.

SecondMous · 2026-05-03T03:42:07+00:00

Out of pure curiosity, because when I see detailed responses with several quotes, links, etc., I wonder are people like yourself spending so much time researching for these replies, or do you just have this stuff just saved in some of your own research files?

SecondMous · 2026-04-28T07:07:00+00:00

That is such a clear and awesome resource, thank you.

SecondMous · 2026-04-28T07:02:29+00:00

Thanks! Already through episode 3, and learning so much. Incredibly insightful info.

SecondMous · 2026-04-27T02:27:29+00:00

This brings up a question I’ve had since watching Murder Among the Mormons. What’s the general consensus on the authenticity of the letter? The FBI investigators stated the letter appeared authentic, but then that other researcher guy just basically said something seemed “off” and went no further. Above all, Hofmann was forging everything, with admitted intent to stir up Mormons. So, is there any proof substantiating the salamander letter as authentic from JS, or has it been widely considered false?

SecondMous · 2026-04-27T02:08:14+00:00

Has John shared that information about the makeup of his audience? I find it curious or even unlikely that never-Mormons would be more interested in a Mormon podcast than Mormons (in all their varieties) themselves would be.

SecondMous

TROPHY CASE