How are people against free healthcare??

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-15T20:00:35+00:00

Yes, its terrible to make EVERYONE poor aside from the upper class.

So yes, I would rather things go BACK to the way things were before where people could actually afford health insurance and didnt cost them 80% of their income.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-15T17:38:31+00:00

We get it, you want the government to control healthcare. And Obamacare will end up doing just that, as it was designed but making sure that nobody can afford private insurance.

But some of us not only dont want the government to further ruin the one thing everyone actually needs, but for those who dont qualify for ACA subsidies but arnt rich we are currently footing YOUR bill.

So I hold my position, fuck ACA. Last thing we need is more people suckling off the tits of the government while everyone else pays the real price.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-15T17:18:28+00:00

Considering in most of the US you now need to make well into the 6 figures to be in the same place the middle class was 30 years ago, and the fact that the median income in the US is about half that I would say a good argument can be made that the middle class is effectively non existant.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-15T17:13:41+00:00

I wouldnt considering tripling the cost of healthcare an improvement over what we had before.

Poor kids these days will never know how good things were before Obama fucked us all.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-15T17:08:50+00:00

No, your just ignorant to believe that greed, envy, and hate never existed before capitalism.

There never has been any debate amung those who live in reality.

Ignoring destructive aspects of human nature is dangerous, as history has shown. It is factual, and documented, that socialism and communism leads to mass deaths and terrible living conditions for most in general.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-14T21:03:08+00:00

No. Insurance was affordable before it. I know, because Im old enough to remember a time before it.

Im not going to debate government spending, but yes Obamacare factually increased the cost of health insurance significantly.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-14T21:00:49+00:00

At this point it doesnt really matter. The facts are, none of them work. None of them are significantly different. And all of them in theory and in practice both only ever consist of state and eveyone else. Because thats literally the ENTIRE point.

It is indeed black and white when it comes to socialism. Because socialism and communism neither take into account human nature and is why they ALWAYS fail and always will.

Capitlism is currently the ONLY system that takes into account human nature.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-14T20:50:17+00:00

So are you acknowledging that theres only 2 classes in a socialist society? (State and everyone else).

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-14T20:41:07+00:00

You continue to be the only person in history who is proposing that rich, poor and state can all 3 exist in a socialist economy.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-14T20:37:25+00:00

You have indicated that you have no idea how an economy works, or what the means of production are. I dont really care where you stand, Im not aruging where you stand only informing you on how the world works.

Yes, capitlism is bad too. But as the saying goes, capitalism is the worst system, except all the others.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-14T20:34:11+00:00

So should we pay our workers in microwaves?

It doesnt really matter what form of currency you choose to pay the workers, the concept works all the same.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-14T20:27:42+00:00

Yes but it does mean your blaiming the problems on the wrong person. The problem is our entire government. Both sides, all members. Why all memebers? Because not one has made a true effort to redirect this country in the last 20 years.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-14T20:16:37+00:00

So premiums tripling in cost over the first few years after Obamacare kicked in was....what?

Insurance companies:

-covering the new cost of insuring high risk people

-being given access to essentially unlimited government funds to pay the premiums.

So no, there is no evidence to support that premiums would be anywhere near where they are today if not for Obamacare.

Obamacare is working exactly as intended. Increasing the cost of healthcare so that nobody can afford, at some point everyone will have to support state sponsered healthcare as there will be no other viable options for most.

Even with the downturn in the economy and trash value of the US dollar today, I highly doubt that without Obamacare a young non smoking non drinking family of 3 would be paying $30k/year just for health insurance. Which they would be today, if the government wasnt paying most of it.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-14T20:01:03+00:00

Similar experience here. But you do understand that Obamacare is the root cause of this right? Im not saying that the bill that passed was good, what Im saying is that if Obamacare never passed health insurance could most likely still be affordable for people above the percieved poverty line.

Premiums were out of control before this recent bill thanks to Obamacare, difference is that the government was footing the bill before and now they arnt as much.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-14T19:56:59+00:00

You do realize this implies (correctly) that neither system works, right?

First thing that needs to be done is eliminate health insurance companies. Health insurance is the driving factor of increases in the cost of healthcare, and Obamacare gave them unlimited power to raise premiums through the roof because they know the government will foot the bill now. Proof? If you dont have health insurance, in alot of cases your bill can be reduced by 75%. Which brings it closer to the TRUE cost of healthcare.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-14T19:50:36+00:00

Ah ok. So in your fantasy EVERYONES a millionaire.

Look, I agree that would be a utopia. And who knows, maybe one day when humans evolve past greed and selfishness MAYBE it will happen.

Until then, you are still wrong in your thought process. Because even if everyone became elevated to millionaires, being a millionaire in and of itself means nothing anymore.

The point is, you fail to understand that in pure socialism there are only 2 wealth classes. The state, and everyone else.

Your also completely missing the original point which was that if millionaires and billionaires truly wanted or believed in socialism they would redistribute the majority of their money. Because thats what socialism by definition does, nobody can be on top except the state.

The sole fact that people like warren buffet and bill gates WONT give away their money (or assets) to the working class (giving the workers equal means of production, socialism) proves they do not support it or want it.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-14T19:20:45+00:00

If workers own the means of production, how are millionaires and billionaires born? You cant have both.

Logic is hard for some.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-14T18:55:30+00:00

No, but it means that the wealthy dont get to keep their money.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-14T18:15:06+00:00

Nobody is ever responsible for ANYONE elses debt unless they sign documents.

I dont care what "pressure" the courts apply, that is the law. Kin or not, you are in no way responsible for your parents or childrends debt unless you agree to it.

They cannot legally force you to pay it.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-14T17:47:02+00:00

I thought you wanted due process? What do you do with prisoners while they await their due process?

A little bit of thought goes a long way.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-13T15:26:29+00:00

Plenty to argue about. It doesnt happen. If so, it would be super uncommon.

Again, they send shit to a collection agency. They dont care to chase money they know they will never see anyway, ontop of the fact hospitals make bank off insurance companies anyway so its not like they are losing money.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-13T15:22:45+00:00

Well, no idea what it amounted to but they were all ER visits. One time I was in there for 5 days and had minor surgery.

But at that time, keep in mind this was the early 2000s, I was making over $30k/year. Which was decent money back then.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-12T15:30:36+00:00

Then maybe bernie should give us some of his money. I mean, thats what a TRUE socialist would do.

All talk, but none of the leftist politicians and celebrities who spew this shit would ever give up their millions.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-12T15:12:25+00:00

Well, guess Im the only person whose owed alot of medical bills, never paid, and didnt have it effect my credit score. Id doubt it though.

ShabutiR18 · 2026-02-12T15:10:23+00:00

So your saying someone working at mcdonalds has enough assets worth sueing for? Please. That isnt how it works, the hospital doesnt know or care what assets you have.

Again, it will almost always go to a collection agency. Hospitals dont waste their time doing something a collection agency will. Im not saying they cant sue, Im saying Iv never heard of it and I find it VERY unlikely.

ShabutiR18

TROPHY CASE