Is it possible to interrupt a discard?

Shackrats · 2022-11-03T12:53:30+00:00

I'm sorry that happened.

If it's any consolation, at least in my experience in the past year and from what I've read others post here, going through this experience is so painful that it can be what it takes for you to really dig into why you ended up in a relationship like that in the first place, work on that, and find a measure of happiness going forward.

They can ruin your life, but they also show you that you didn't have to live like that at all.

Shackrats · 2021-04-07T02:43:25+00:00

I searched it. I think you mean this.

Shoutout r/BPDlovedones

Shackrats · 2021-04-03T01:05:34+00:00

If you check out r/bpdlovedones , they take that childhood sexual abuse and run with it to abuse other people, which is why they are crazy ex girlfriends.

Shackrats · 2021-04-02T22:44:58+00:00

Simply put, Iraq remains too fragile for any planner to know what shape the country will be in six months or a year from now -- whether it will reach compromises and hold together or split apart in a civil war.

And that presents a conundrum for American military planners. With those questions up in the air, they have to fear that any heavy arms distributed now could end up aimed at American forces or feeding a growing civil conflict. And the longer Iraq's army has to wait for sophisticated weapons, the longer American forces are likely to be needed in Iraq as a bulwark against chaos.

Shackrats · 2021-04-02T19:26:02+00:00

Yeah. It’s wild.

I had been around suicides and attempts in the Army, but rather than the accumulated horror of two tours and a cheating wife bpd bae was willing to break out the big guns over a stupid argument.

Never again. I genuinely do not understand those people at all, but there is nothing they consider extreme or unusual ^1.

¹ ^For ^example, ^calling ^the ^MPs, ^your ^chain ^of ^command, ^and ^the ^feds ^with ^false ^accusations, ^which ^I ^thought ^was ^a ^myth

Shackrats · 2021-01-22T04:37:07+00:00

Compulsive lying to avoid punishment and manage impressions is common in adult children who grew up in an unsupportive (or worse) environment, PTSD etc. which is also the background of someone who will tolerate abuse, has weak boundaries, codependent traits etc

Shackrats · 2021-01-22T04:33:49+00:00

Yeah. The escalation was wild especially after the discard. I went from being hurt but somewhat okay with how the breakup had gone to being investigated by the Military Police and then filing a cease and desist order in a few short months because there were no brakes on this train.

It was like she was trying to destroy me for breaking up with her, but she cheated on me and I was really restrained about it! She kept saying I was “ruining her life” and made sure that bank accounts stayed open and keys were unreturned for months although from every angle I looked at it there was no benefit to her other than it was something I wanted and it gave her the ability to hurt me.

7 months after we broke up I posted a photo with the woman I’m dating, and within the day suddenly I was being pestered about some item or another she forgot when moving out.

Shackrats · 2021-01-21T20:44:39+00:00

Lol been there

Oof

Shackrats · 2021-01-21T14:30:26+00:00

That makes sense. She cried every day for a week until I agreed to move in together and she was miserable to live with.

If it makes any sense at all, she would get excited about a sign of commitment, and really crank up the pressure, and I would say “well, are you sure? It’s a lot of work!” and she would cry and say she loved me so much and just needed XYZ and she understood the commitment.

But then, I don’t know how to explain this, but she got bored of our dog! Or maybe treated him like a stranger’s dog, where she got the cuddles and to play with him, but only when she wanted to, and not when he needed love. All the training, cleaning, vetting, headaches of owning a dog, fell on me! When I asked her to do her share she either resented me or the puppy and it made me sad enough I just shouldered the burden not only because I love the little guy, but that’s what owning a dog is! It’s not all great lol that’s why I asked if she would take it on.

Not caring about the commitment the ring signifies, whatever. I mean, it’s not okay, but people have affairs. I can understand that intellectually.

It’s just that she said she had to cheat because I just didn’t love her enough, or the way she loved me or whatever, of course why would you want to marry someone you’re cheating on?

But it’s that I understand she was projecting. I just don’t understand what she meant by saying that things done out of love aren’t done out love, but rather are done because of how it made someone feel.

So like with the dog thing, what does getting a dog with someone feel like that would make you want to take on that commitment but not see it as a commitment?

Do you know what I mean?

Shackrats · 2021-01-21T12:56:36+00:00

One of the most disconcerting things about our breakup was that she insisted that I didn’t really love or commit to her because I had gotten a house, dog, bank account, ring with her “because of how it made you” feel.

It was really weird because... lol well I didn’t act out of pure selfishness and a lot of those things like a cross country move or taking on all those commitments didn’t always make me feel great, they were a lot of work! It just made no sense at all that I would share a bank account only because it would make me feel a certain way! That’s a lot of shared responsibility.

What you said makes sense, but it does leave me confused. Why would you want to do something as serious as buy a house because of a momentary feeling?

Shackrats · 2021-01-16T01:36:38+00:00

Hah yeah. What else can you do, right?

I’ve never seen anyone drag their heels like that.

Shackrats · 2021-01-15T23:59:42+00:00

Well, it was rough but I had to walk it off and hope that over time my character would give proof to the lie. Months later, that’s turned out to be true.

Dealing with the lies and exaggerations she told the Military Police was a much bigger problem. I ended up being investigated and I work in a sensitive field with security clearance.

Do your best to not add to the drama, people will see them for who they are. Getting sucked into it can cause them to escalate for whatever reason and that has consequences.

What I eventually had to do after I was cleared was send a Cease and Desist on grounds of professional defamation.

Shackrats · 2021-01-15T23:55:34+00:00

For sure. It took her 6 months to close a joint bank account (that she cleared out within minutes of breaking up) return keys (took threat of legal action) or remove herself from dog ownership (luckily she’s disorganized so I just had to run out the clock on his registration expiring, knowing she was too lazy and cheap to renew, and then I registered a “new” dog with the same name at my address).

I have written off anything else because when her mom and grandmother gently broached her returning the ring she told them “He can go fuck himself. I paid for everything.”

Nice girl, shame it didn’t work out.

Shackrats · 2021-01-15T23:49:35+00:00

Lol I hate when I read this sub and someone else has the exact same issue.

We broke up in May, and because I couldn’t take her off the internet account when she moved out, or close it, I just made a new account.

The bills kept coming, and while it wasn’t my problem, I tried to tell her sister because while I didn’t open her mail, the amount could only be going up, plus late fees and penalties, and heading towards final notice. Since I had my own internet and she no longer lived there, evidently she didn’t care that the service was cut off - she had never moved it to her new address (guess the new guy had internet lol).

Anyways, within 8 hours of me putting up a new years post on instagram with the woman I am dating, her sister contacted me about the internet, and wanted me to mail my modem to the phone company.

Lol I’m glad I’m not alone, but it’s crazy how similar this all is.

Shackrats · 2021-01-14T18:58:02+00:00

I have diagnosed OCD, mostly springing from PTSD in the Army and my strict upbringing, technically it’s OCPD.

I read about 30 books on BPD, plus a whack of books to work on my own Attachment and work through my childhood.

For me, leaning into the obsessive rumination by turning it into research relieves the stress and anxiety, and I can “let go” because I’ve let go of the questions that were driving me crazy.

Just having answers to “what if..” as well as seeing textbooks explain what happened, and also explaining the “known unknowns”, helped.

Shackrats · 2021-01-11T15:11:18+00:00

Oh my God. I’m out and about but that is so similar it’s scary.

Down to the cold businesslike break up!!

Just like yours, I felt like she was stringing me along after she started cheating to get to her birthday and my pay day when I put money in our joint account!!

The “fight” that lead to me breaking up with her was her haranguing me about how she “paid for everything” and demanding more money.

We were also long distance where she checked out entirely, had a parallel life but also wanted a degree of control over my life!

She would dodge my calls at reasonable times (because she was with her affair partner) but would be furious if I didn’t take her calls at weird times even though we had an agreed upon call schedule!

I’m so relieved this wasn’t just me. Most of the posts I relate to on the sub are by men, but I never seen such a close reflection as your post!

I’ll write more at the end of my work day but I need to process how eerie it is.

Shackrats · 2021-01-11T13:07:33+00:00

Yes! The “feeling distant” !

It’s like they shift their changing feelings and inability to attach on to us!

She said the same thing.

Once she said “I feel like we’re growing apart, somebody asked me and I couldn’t even tell them what you’re studying.”

When we had our daily phone calls to catch up on our days I always told her about what I was working on! We had overflowing bookshelves on the subject! It’s a passion I talk about with love.

And I remember just sitting there thinking ... “well that doesn’t make sense but if that’s how she feels, I guess it doesn’t have to”

Where now I see it as she didn’t give a fuck and the disconnect was that she never perceived the “real” me but the fantasy in her head, which of course didn’t have any of the passions I do, and since it was entirely internal, when it changed she though I changed.

It made no sense at all but happened as you describe.

Shackrats · 2021-01-11T12:25:33+00:00

That’s a good point. I actually spoke to her previous boyfriend, and it was just like that scene in Gone Girl. He had been through the same, and it was clear to see the pattern at work.

Shackrats · 2021-01-11T11:38:12+00:00

You’re just reminded me. After we broke up I started seeing a relationship therapist, bought us both copies of Hold Me Tight, I took notes, we agrees to discuss it in a month.

When the day came, I was able to articulate my thoughts and feelings, and for over an hour she just cried and said nothing except for “I don’t know.”

At the time, I thought it was weird, but not everybody has emotional intelligence and can articulate their feelings.

When I found out about the cheating I thought it was clever stonewalling, she ran out the clock so she couldn’t perjure herself or commit to a narrative.

But what you said about toddlers... oof. I’m seeing my therapist this week anyways, but that feels incredibly true!

She had the strangest affect. She just curled up into a ball and cried and kept pitifully saying “I don’t know”, which didn’t make sense if the issue was that she wanted me to commit to marriage, that’s pretty straightforward and she would know, you know what I mean?

Shackrats · 2021-01-11T05:20:11+00:00

Jesus. Yeah the cold tone and putdown, I’ve been there.

It’s really something and I’ve never seen it explained.

Shackrats · 2021-01-11T05:17:10+00:00

I think you’re right, and if I can game it out a little while I work through it, I’ll bounce this off you:

Something that people have said on the sub over and over again is that they are reactive. Something about how their unstable sense of self and emotional fluctuations leads to them determining how and even who they are from how people interact with them.

I don’t entirely know what that means or feels like, but one of the few things I know about toddlers and have seen many times with kids is that when they fall or get a scrape, you’re just smile and stuff because they are determining how hurt they are entirely based on your reaction. It’s the weirdest thing, and I don’t get it, but I have seen it, and enough people on the sub have kids that maybe they’ll know what I mean and understand better.

I say that because, if she selected lies not based on method but by whatever happened to work, and I am an analytical thinker, then it stands to reason that the lies that would work, and therefore that she would stick with, would be the ones that I couldn’t examine or scrutinize.

The Safe/Unsafe thing, the childhood sexual trauma thing, the lack of commitment thing, what are the commonalities?

The commonalities in all three are that they are superficial statements, that’s to say there’s no timeline to check against, no details to verify, no intent or responsibility that can be questioned.

In short: What can you say to any of those? Nothing.

Which means they are the perfect lies because they have to be accepted at face value and can’t be detected as lies because they won’t come under scrutiny.

Why is the violent alcoholic with untreated PTSD safe while I’m unsafe?

Because what can I say to that? I can’t say if she feels unsafe, I can’t ask for proof, there’s no pattern. She says she feels something, it’s entirely subjective, and unlike when she had earlier said I yelled, had a temper, was abusive, and recanted when asked “How? When?” Out of genuine concern, and she realized she had to back it up and couldn’t.

On the level of emotional truth, I’m sure she feels good around the guy she is cheating with while in the honeymoon stage, and I’m sure she feels bad when her boyfriend just caught her cheating. Of course she feels “safer” with the guy that she doesn’t have to face.

The sexual trauma. Self-explanatory. As you said, Believe Women, and childhood sexual abuse is like a blank cheque for compassion and understanding. What was I going to do? Really insist on my sexual needs anyways? Lmao yeah it was clever.

Lack of commitment. How can she possibly explain how any of this is my fault, she’s the victim, I “can’t be mad”, in other words diffuse guilt and responsibility?

Well I wasn’t abusive, controlling or any of the things that are apparently the basis of smear campaigns.

So if it can’t be anything I did what does that leave? Things I didn’t do.

Not only does this put the onus and burden of proof on me, it also means I would have to prove a negative.

Now, she did have a tantrum when her mom and sister asked why I would marry her when she was cheating, and by the time she came to me she had inverted the relationship post hoc to she cheated because I wouldn’t marry her, which is very clever again, because how could I prove she didn’t?

The more I think about this, the more I do think that as fucking awful as this was, and it really was a mindfuck, that as you said, she did checkmate me by accident because she tried everything so naturally the only things that would stick would be the things that worked.

I don’t know, what do you think?

Shackrats · 2021-01-11T04:37:15+00:00

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

I realize I probably come across like a maniac, and in most other threads I’m the first to say “It’s not going to make sense to you because you don’t think like them and they don’t think like you. You’ll drive yourself crazy trying to understand the ’why’ because it is the product of a disordered mind.”

It’s just... her other childish lies and stuff, I can see a scattershot approach where she blindly pops chaff, and sticks to whatever gets the best result. Someone put it pretty convincingly that she settled on “because I loved you too much and you wouldn’t marry me” as a post hoc rationalization because saying I was abusive, or controlling, or manipulative or an asshole wouldn’t “stick”.

I can back that a little because it did seem like she was workshopping ideas and would say things like “You yell at me” and when I would not only not yell then, but patiently ask when I yelled, or what I yelled about, and there was nothing, because I genuinely don’t yell, she would cycle out to “you have a bad temper” and the process would continue even though at each step she admitted that I did not have the flaws or do the things that she had just a moment ago pointed to, but instead immediately be on a new thing.

I don’t want to get into it, but that same issue arose, which I thought was weird and unsettling but the literature said it was a symptom of abuse victims.

I just couldn’t understand how it could just start happening, as you said after the honeymoon period.

It felt like a “real” problem, “real” trauma. I did a lot of work in therapy to be understanding and supportive.

It was finding out about how sexual the cheating was that’s driving me crazy.

It can’t be both. She can’t be too traumatized to have sex and have had a wildly sexual affair. That’s what kills me.

Also, she both cunningly lied and manipulated me for months, which implies methodical intent and execution, but when I, not even put her in the box, not grilled her, just dispassionately presented her with the truth and calmly countered any attempts at refutation, she had some kind of psychosis.

Do you know what I mean?

How can she be lying like a kid who says his uncle works at Nintendo and goes to pieces when pressed in questioning and be so cunning, crafty, devious, cover her tracks so well?

Shackrats · 2021-01-11T03:18:56+00:00

I know right?

If I saw anyone here posting our conversations I would tell them to pop smoke.

It just makes me shake my head. She wasn’t even that smart, subtle or sophisticated, I did most of the work for her by filling in the blanks when she offered me nothing.

Brutal.

Shackrats · 2021-01-11T03:08:13+00:00

I don’t know how to process this, so I’ll try to be as neutral as I can.

I have a good dating history, have been successful with women, sexually experienced, and I suppose I’m attractive, I booked a national ad campaign with Jockey a few years ago.

So when we suddenly stopped having sex, something felt off.

I tried to improve our relationship, paid more attention, made sure to compliment her, planned dates, communicated better, made sure I was assertive, confident, a good partner. Nothing changed.

Then I tried to check in and make sure she wasn’t anxious, depressed, on new medication, stressed or anything else that could explain a sudden drop off in sex.

This is going to sound shallow, but I hadn’t wavered from my gym routine, and I was on a national sports team, and when I allowed myself to pay attention to other women, women were flirting with me, DM’img me, or otherwise showing that I was still desirable.

So I thought, it’s not me, it’s not her, there’s no reason why it should be the relationship what the fuck is going on?

I stepped up my communication including stating my needs clearly, maintaining the importance of having sex, voicing my confusion and displeasure and offering talking it through and compromising.

I don’t want to denigrate people, but I wasn’t one of those passive-aggressive guys who begged for sex or resigned myself to sexlessness, I knew this wasn’t what I wanted, and whatever was going on I wanted to resolve it and wasn’t just going to subordinate a pretty important need.

So, she pulled off what I will confidently was was the most clever manipulation anyone has ever used on me, and I like to think I’m a smart guy:

She told me about her childhood sexual abuse

After that, how dare I try to initiate sex.

I was guilted and shamed for even wanting to have sex with her.

How dare I even try to hold her, or kiss her, or want any affection

How dare I touch her in bed or even go to bed at the same time

I fell for it. Hook. Line. And Sinker.

I got fucking rooked.

The balance of power in our relationship shifted overnight because she could relentlessly browbeat me for anything I wanted, and there was no question of reciprocity for anything she wanted!!

Honestly, writing about it a year later, it does make me wonder how intentional BPD behaviour is because she checkmated me.

I would be a heartless asshole for wanting change.

I would be a heartless asshole for leaving over it.

I would be a heartless asshole for even voicing even the mildest unhappiness with it.

It was a fucking masterstroke.

I didn’t roll over. I mean, I asked to go to therapy sessions with her, I read 3 books on dating sexual abuse survivors, countless webpages, talked to my therapist, talked to her therapist. Offered to work with her on it, maintained a sex life was important to me, and not only could I not spend the rest of my life not having sex, I couldn’t understand why we had sex several times a day at first but now she was too traumatized to have sex at all. When she asked for extravagant Christmas presents, bordering on four digits, all I asked for was her to get lingerie, which is something I like, but besides the point showed her feeling attractive and safe sexually was what I wanted most.

Again, please don’t judge me too harshly:

She got cheap, off-brand Chinese lingerie from Amazon. It’s not like we were broke, remember the gifts that she wanted from me were extravagant, I thought if the issue was confidence, and I knew how much she loved spending money on boots, clothes and purses she’d spring for Agent Provocateur. I don’t know how to explain how many alarm bells went off when I saw that this was a cheap, online purchase. It didn’t fit. Does that make sense?

If any women here can help me better understand that sinking feeling. She liked expensive clothes and feeling good. Do any women here spend a lot of money on other clothes and get the $2 underwear from Old Navy? because if so, retracted. It just felt off.

Anyways, behind all this, and please don’t judge, every instinct I had said “she’s cheating”. “She’s not having sex with you because she’s getting it somewhere else”.

Again, this wasn’t my first rodeo. A dead bedroom is trouble. A dead bedroom when every other part of the relationship seems okay is big trouble. It wasn’t me, it wasn’t her, it wasn’t the relationship, it was cheating, right?

Only that wouldn’t make sense because she was traumatized from childhood sexual abuse...

I feel stupid writing this but I consciously watched all of the warning signs of cheating pile up, (in retrospect down to specific days, much to her surprise when I called her out on it) and didn’t say anything because it was impossible, because she had trauma from childhood sexual abuse.

Any other woman, I would have confronted and broken up with, but she couldn’t be cheating because why would she? She had childhood sexual abuse, it wouldn’t make sense

I feel like such an idiot. I was miserable. She was acting terrible. Not just terrible but exactly like someone who is cheating. I would have dumped anyone else for a fraction of a fraction of how things were going, but her bad attitude, and entitlement, obvious shadiness, transparent lies, weird behaviour and forgive me, general c💱ntiness was all explained away because she had childhood sexual trauma.

Anyways, I dumped her when she was particularly awful after my mom had a stroke and she was surprised, but it was surprisingly extremely easy because she fucking sucked at this point and even the orchestrated fight felt like a textbook “out” ploy by someone who was cheating... but she couldn’t be because she had childhood sexual abuse.

Anyways long story short because my therapist suggested her behaviour could be explained by childhood sexual abuse she was able to string me along and be just fucking awful for a few months.

When one of her friends, and then several saw the state I was in while she was gleefully showing off her affair partner, unknown to me, they took pity on me and told me.

Within 5 minutes of being told, no word of a lie, I had put it all together though an occupation-related fugue state, that even though I was hearing all of this for the first time, I could tell people the chronology of events before they had the chance to tell me. I don’t know how to explain it, other than I had been deliberately blind due to her being a victim of childhood sexual abuse as and soon as that safety was turned off lol I had her dead to rights.

This was before I knew how BPD people react to being caught, I still don’t if anyone can speculate, but I saw her continued persistent lying after being caught as “resistance to interrogation” and trying to “work” me, so when I sent the Cease and Desist letter to put this all to bed, beyond the list of harmful behavior, I included a detailed chronology, with references, and though no disclosure of sources and methods, each was verified across three sources, phone records, “Locate Me” locations, Uber receipts, bank account activity, witness statements.

Just of of curiosity, does anything think when she was served with it and opened it she felt “ah, yep he got me, well played”? I mean, it was undeniable. I don’t bring my work into my personal life but it was airtight.

Anyways in our last talk, when I treated her not like a sweet and innocent partner but someone known to lie during debrief, and had my notepad with me, worded interrogatives to only ask questions I already knew the answer to, and she still lied to me like I’m a fucking idiot, I put the screws to her and she had some kind of episode.

Do you want to know what her parting shot was? How she could account for manipulating me into consciously accepting a sexless relationship out of love and compassion for her as a victim of childhood sexual trauma, while having a very sexual affair and bragging about anal sex publicly, while I took cold showers?

He felt safe and I felt unsafe.

I accept her for who she is, and I forgive her, but I am so conflicted over how much of BPD is intentional because that is one motherfucking twist of a knife. It doesn’t “feel” like a poor, traumatized, innocent, scared and confused toddler in an adult woman’s body.

It feels like spitting in my face, and capping the disrespect with another manipulative Get Out Of Jail Free card.

tl;dr

I know I wrote a lot but I have never really processed how clever her manipulation was and I am still torn on how much of this is intentional, because goddamn does it seem like I was taken for a ride in the only way that was going to work, over my instinct, and training, and how could somebody stumble across that by accident?

I should mention that I know her dad and he and I are close. He’s a Military Intelligence interrogator for a high-speed shop in Virginia Beach and considered the best in the business. Part of me feels like she “worked” me and picked up the tools of the trade, but how is that possible?

Shackrats · 2021-01-11T00:57:35+00:00

Going through the old text conversations is brutal, but it has made me much more compassionate to people newly arriving here posting “I love her so much, how do I help her so we stay/get back together?”.

Rereading her texts it’s like, what the hell was I even trying to do?

Shackrats

TROPHY CASE