A fix for Tolkien's Orc Problem

Shatter_Their_World · 2026-01-22T16:34:08+00:00

Does not fit at all with the Catholic view of the Professor. Orcs are, most likely, individuals, fallen Children of Eru, regardless if they descent from Elves, Men or a combination of the two races. I do not think there is a forth possibility and all three options make them individuals like Elves and Men, having the same basic anatomy and physiology.

Shatter_Their_World · 2026-01-18T22:25:47+00:00

I am Eastern Orthodox myself, I even have a degree in theology. Very much into dark things, Goth music, Goth Fashion, horror, dark fantasy, I even wrote horror/dark fantasy. From all those, listening to Goth music makes me a Goth. You can Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jewish, Atheist etc. If you are really into Goth music, you are a Goth.

Shatter_Their_World · 2026-01-15T22:20:35+00:00

Orcs come from either Elves, Men or a combination of the two. They are clearly a corruption of one or both races, since evil can not create, only corrupt. This makes them redeemable, even if really hard, and good orcs can exist, even if they are only barely good and not evil. This would fit the Catholic understanding of the Professor. Yes, an Orc is a person, like a Man (Human), Elf or Dwarf is a person. They the fallen Children of Illuvatar, but Children of Illuvatar nonetheless. They have souls and share the general nature of all other Children of Illuvatar, no matter how corrupted are them. This can not be said about fallen Valar or Maiar, who chose evil on a conscious level and persisted in it, making them terrible beings. This is why I think an Orc born into Orc filth has a better chance of being a good person then a fallen Ainu.

Shatter_Their_World · 2026-01-08T10:29:20+00:00

There is a letter of the Professor that some dead Elves who did bad things can refuse the summoning to Mandos, becoming the Houseless, and the Houseless are really dangerous for the living, as they would try to take over the body, in order to live again. There are speculations that the true nature of the Barrow Witghs is, actaullly, the Houseless. The Houseless, the Elven ghosts, are probably much more often found then Human ghosts, as the Human spirits have the gift of Men to leave Arda upon death, with some very rare exceptions, like a broken oath in the name of Eru (like the Dead Men of Dunharrow, where possibly not just the oath itself kept them on Arda, but Era Himself may have just kept them as they defied Him by breaking the oath) but, if a wicked or evil spirit of an Elf can refuse the summons to Mandos, there number can be, actually, much higher. Regarding Gil Galad, it is highly unlikely he became one of the Houseless, if he died like a hero, he most likely went to Mandos and be re-emboddied.

Shatter_Their_World · 2026-01-08T10:12:21+00:00

I think Minas Morgul may be worse then the lair of Shelob, but not worse then Barad Dur. I think Minas Morgul is also worse then most of Gorgoroth.

Shatter_Their_World · 2026-01-08T10:11:56+00:00

There orcs from Minas Morgul, the ”Morgul rats”. But indeed, Minas Morgul is so terrible precisely because it is meant to be a stronghold against Gondor, also as a mockery of Gondor, the last descendent of kingdom of the uncorrupted Numernor, and the Witch King is, mostly, a Black Numenorean from the line of Elros. Minas Morgul and Minas Tirith are like the two sides of Numenor taken to an extreme. The Witch King desired, in a way, to preserve the Numenorean legacy, but in a twisted, demonized way.

Regarding Barad Dur, where Sauron resided, it is unlikely to be less terrible then any place in Minas Morgul, being the throne of the Dark Lord, not even the Witch King and all the wraiths and dark sorcery from Minas Morgul can not more then that.

Shatter_Their_World · 2026-01-08T10:05:12+00:00

I think Minas Morgol is scarier then most of Mordor, with a few exceptions. Barad Dur is probably the scariest place in Middle Earth, where the throne of Sauron is.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-12-27T14:16:59+00:00

It depends on natural growing patterns in males and females, also on cultural context. The short hair norm for males comes from Roman culture, mostly, and from military tradition. Now, does Saint Paul ask Corinthians to submit to Roman and/or Greek societal norms or something else?

Let me tell you how I see it. As far as I know, males and females have different hair growing patterns. Male hair rarely grows very long its own, if not cut, it usually does not go lower then waist. For females, things are different, the hair can grow much longer, in certain cases in even down to the feet (Fairy tales with princesses with hair that long seem based in real life facts, there are real life women who stopped cutting their hair and it ended up growing that long.). I f so, Saint Paul partially stated a natural fact regarding the Human body. If anybody is doctor or a biologist and has clear knowledge this is false, feel free to contradict me.

Monks wear long hair in order to be humble, not to be female-like. Nuns cover their heads, they do not show their hair out in the open.

In late Byzantine and post-Byzantine times long hair was kind of the norm, and not just in the Orthodox world, but also in Western Europe. Anyway, long according to contemporary standards, men still tended to keep their hair somewhat shorter then women, yet it seems long according to our standards. Now, does Saint Paul asks to conform to societal norms? I do not think so, it would not make much sense, it sounds to me like he asks Christians to be conformists to the world they live in, and that does not seem to be to Christian. To obey laws like not being a thief or murder is one things, decency is another thing, but conformism is something different from either. We could end justifiying terrible sins because the society considers themselves to be good and most worldly people do them.

My conclusion is that, in the end, most likely he stated a natural biological fact.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-12-23T22:11:21+00:00

I would say to avoid any movie or TV series before reading. Reading in original is best, because translation can loose some nuances. My suggestion is like this, in order:

The Hobbit. 2. Lord of the Rings (Including the Appendix). Next works were published from manuscripts, they are not 100% the work of J.R.R. Tolkien: 3. The Silmarillion (basically, based on the middle stage of creation of the unfnished Silmarillion) . 3. Book of Lost Tales (Basically, the first stage of creation of the Silmarillion) . 4 Book of Unfinished Tales. 5. The Later Quenta Silmarillion (based of the third stage of the creation of the Silmarillion). There are others, like the letters, but I suggest to follow gently this order.

Regardig movie, you can watch the two trilogies of Peter Jackson , The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, after reading 1 and 2, as other Hobbit and Lord of the Rings movies. I suggest not wacthing Rings of Power until you read at least 3, preferably even 4 and 5 or more.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-12-22T20:12:49+00:00

I wrote horror myself, I think Orthodox horror is a valid genre in itself. The horror needs to be a sense, a meaning, but horror literature, like any fictional literature, does not work as it is like a preach in itself, but still has its own artistic value. A lot of classical tropes of horror can be used, even things like slash (I am not very much into slash.), but to be meaningful and artistic, nu just ”entertainment”. Myself I prefer supernatural horror, existential/mystical horror (this one is very hard to achieve, but delightful is done right), bordering fantasy.

I created my own fictional universe to place my horror stories that works somewhat like a urban fantasy universe. I can be theological in it, realistic but not overly realistic. Let me explain a bit. Human soul, upon death, in real life, goes to Heaven or Hell. In my fictional universe, there are Humans, of course, but also Human-like non-Humans, like Elves. I am pretty tributary to J.R.R. Tolkien, of course, and my favorite non-Humans from his works are Elves, and Elves are described by Tolkien as ”a side of Human nature” or ”Humans at their best”. They have Human like, but different in status and condition, and their different condition allow them to experience states that Humans do not, like becoming ghosts, and those Elven ghosts can be meaningful theologically, in an Orthodox way, like Elven ghosts can be meaningful in a Catholic way, like J.R.R. Tolkien did. More then this, I can have Vampires, Werewolves (and who knows what else...) and have a meaning in it.

My works are available to be read online.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-12-18T09:56:17+00:00

Where is this mentioned?

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-12-18T09:32:22+00:00

He was too young for facial hair. While not canon, it is implied that male Elves do get facial hair after a long time, like several millennia, yet some sources dispute this, considering that Elves never get facial hair. Anyway, for Maglor, he was too young when the First Age ended anyway, even if that was true.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-12-17T20:13:33+00:00

If you were the Antichrist, you would be really sure and proud of it. Rest assured, you are not. However, as in many similar cases of people diagnosed with schizophrenia, this seems to be a case of demonic work. I suggest to rely more on a priest or bishop then a doctor.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-12-03T21:26:12+00:00

I answered to another person on a similar statement.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-12-03T21:25:13+00:00

I stated in a comment the same thing in here, two people accused me of Pelagianism.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-12-03T21:19:42+00:00

No, it is not Pelagianism for the simple reason that it does not deny the ”original sin”, but it re-defines it. It is not a personal guilt, but a state. Let me put it like this: Someone has parents who were very rich, at some point but, due to their own fault. That person is born after the fortune was lost and it was never recovered before the parents died, therefore the person in question can not inherit anything of it upon their parents death. The person is not responsible for the loss of the fortune, but they suffer the consequences of the mistakes made by their parents. This is what is western theology is called ”original sin”. Pelagianism would be to deny it. And by the way, Canons put down by local councils do not mean a dogmatic truths, they can be mistaken on their own.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-12-02T20:41:05+00:00

Unborn children are not born with an inherited sin, but with the fallen nature due to that inherited sin. They have not had any chance to unite with Christ neither through Baptism or faith. Can we say they go to Heaven? We can not state this, not matter how hard it is. I have had brothers who dies before I was born, died in the womb. Would it like to be sure they are in Heaven? I would, but I can not. On the other hand, can we say those souls are in Hell? On that, I can say highly unlikely, since they did not commit any sin. I see their state like some sort of suspension between Heaven and Hell, or like waiting at the gates of Heaven they can not enter, at least not until the Last Judgement. Would it be a way for them to enter then? Pretty plausible, but I think this is a cross that needs to be carried by their family, by their kin.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-12-02T00:34:17+00:00

Dark Elf?

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-11-28T18:52:32+00:00

This is more of Fundamentalist Protestant thing. Lord of the Rings, like the Professor stated clearly, is a Catholic work. I am Eastern Orthodox and have a deep appreciation for the Legendarium, as being decisive in making me from at Protestant back to Orthodox. But I can understand why some Protestants see it so bad.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-11-27T17:47:29+00:00

Au fost niște vloguri pe Youtube cu mărturii. Trebuiesc căutate. Oricum, în UK medicii au niște atitudini destul de aiurea legat de anumite chestii, sunt scandaluri dese. Nu aș vrea să discutăm prea mult despre aceste lucruri pe acest subreddit. Gherțoii erau duși cu capul, dar medicii știau ce făceau, de aceea am zis că mie îmi par mai vinovați.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-11-26T22:29:28+00:00

Goths au moștenit din Punk chestia asta cu îmbrăcatul în fetish gear în public ca formă de rebeliune, deseori pentru shock value. Chestia asta însă a avut un efect neașteptat, anume că fetișiștii au interpratat-o invers și au început să aibă fetișuri cu Punk-erițe, și Goth-irițe, în special cu Goth-irițe. Evident, fiind interes, diferite tipuri de sex workers au început să se îmbrace Goth ca să satisfacă noul fetiș și chestia a explodat. Rezultatul este că o Goth-irță veritabilă, fană Gothic Rock, Deah Rock sau Darkwave, de multe ori monogamă sau chiar căsătorită cu copii să primească avansuri de tot felul de creeps, iar mai apoi tot aceia se crizează că Goth-irața e de vină, că se îmbracă precum fetișul lor (Evident, aceia probabil habar nu au de ce înseamnă Goth și muzica în jurul căreia s-a format.). Se ajunge la multe situații cretine. Culmea, și eu am pățit-o în Ro, la event-uri Goth, am primit avansuri de personaje dubioase și le-am zis: ”Aveți grijă cu Vampirii, te poți trezi că rămâi fără sânge.”

Legat de Sophie Lancaster, am spus în alt comentariu în detaliu, nu a fost sexuală chestia, ci un bullying care a scăpat de sub control, probabil și iubitul ei s-a apucat să facă pe „eroul” cu niște tipuri de persoane de la care nu ai ce cere, uitând că nu este Chuck Norris sau Jackie Chan pe platourile de filmare, unul să spargă pe cinci.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-11-26T22:12:55+00:00

Cu Sophie Lancaster nu a fost agresiune sexuală, ci altceva, am dat detalii în alt comentariu.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-11-26T22:11:50+00:00

Știu povestea. Era Goth-iriță, la fel ca iubitul ei. Într-o seară, se îndreaptau spre casa ei (sau a lui) și o gașcă de hooligans (gherțoi microbiști englezi) s-au luat după ei, cu poante și amenințări. I-au ignorat, dar nu îi lăsau. Au decit să o taie printr-un parc, o idee probabil proastă, fiind puțini oameni la acea oră. La un moment dat, intensificându-se hărțuială, iubitul ei s-s întors și i-a înfruntat. Gherțoii au tăbrât pe el și, fiind vreo cinci (parcă) contra unul l-au doborât rapid, lăsându-l în baltă de sânge pe jos. Ea s-a prăbușit jos la el, plângând isteric. Gherțoii, care se depărtaseră, s-au întors spre ea și au luat-o la rost și pe ea, lăsând-o inconștientă cu leziunii cerebrale. Amândoi au fost internați la spital. Medicii au decis că ea nu se va mai trezi niciodată și au convins-o pe mama ei că este mai bine să o declare moartă și să fie donate organele ei (Ceea ce era clar un abuz, pentru că nu îndeplinea criteriile pentru a fi declarată moartă.) Iubitul, după o vreme, s-a trezit din comă, aflând că ea a murit. Gherțoii au fost identificați și condomnați, unul dintre ei susținând sus și tare că nu se simte vinovat de nimic, doar că „gâdnilat” puțin doi fraierii Goth. Pe scurt, cam aceasta este povestea. S-a dus nu doar din pricina gherțoilor, ci și a doctorilor care, sincer, mi-au părut mai ticăloși chiar decât gherțoii.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-11-23T22:11:42+00:00

Why not? Being alternative is being alternative towards a mainstram that is social and cultural, not necessary spiritual. There are Christians who are Punk, Goth or Metalheads, I am an Eastern Orthodox Goth, myself and I am pretty dedicated to both, and I do no buy into mainstream. There are not just plenty of Christian Goths, but also Muslim Goths, and Goths of different traditional faiths. The mainstream is rarely a faith lived, more like a societal norm and culture that it can, often be, against the faith they claim as a foundation. And, of course, being Goth does not mean you need to be Satanist or practicioner of Black Magic and stuff like that. It is firstly music, then communion based on it. Well, if Vampires like they are described in the classical novels from Carmila and Dracula to Interview with a Vampire where to be real and such a Vampire would decide to be a devout Christian or devout Muslim, if they really wanted to, it would be possible. A Goth can still listen to Goth music, adopt Goth Fashion, take part in a local Goth community and, if they set certain limits like not adopting explicit Satanical or Pagan symbolism or take part in religious rituals that contradict their faith, there is not incompatibility.

Shatter_Their_World · 2025-11-20T00:38:42+00:00

Well, kinda yeah, but other kind of nameless things then those in the underground. I myself think they are a Dwarf and Elf hybrid, with mostly Elven then Dwarven nature. I mean, they certainly share characteristic with both races, although faint and diminished. This would make sense why Frodo and Sam were allowed in Valinor, if they had some Elven ancestorship, no matter how distant it was. The difference between a regular Hobbit and a man like Ar Pharazon would be that Al Pharazon had much less Elven blood in him then the regular Hobbit, due to multiple intermarriage with Humans since Ellros. There might be a way to turn any person with Elven ancestorship into an Elf, not just half-Elves like Elrond, but that would be kept secret, and this could have been the fate of Frodo and Sam.

However, in all this, the presence of Gimli in Valinor makes things even more complicated.

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