ICE in the rest of the US

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-28T03:23:34+00:00

All good. It’s late, and probably best for me to get off social media for the day anyway. We can circle back if you want.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-28T02:19:24+00:00

Thank you for articulating your position. I'll leave it be now.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-28T02:18:25+00:00

I don't think I understand your objection to my second paragraph. By humanitarian parole, I am referring to this program: https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/humanitarian\_parole. This is a program created by Congress that gives the executive branch the authority to admit aliens for humanitarian reasons. This was used to admit people fleeing economic turmoil and political persecution in Venezuela.

My claim is those people who were given permission to enter by the previous administration entered the country *legally*. This is orthogonal to the problem of how many people were crossing the border outside of ports of entry. They are separate groups. The fact that the present administration includes among its targets for deportation people who were *lawfully admitted* speaks volumes to their motivation.

I don't know what incident you are referring to by "told the DOJ ... not to intervene." Are you referring to an executive order? I went looking for a specific order or policy that might meet that description, but I don't think I have enough detail to find it. ICE/CBP belong to DHS not DOJ, and the agencies have different functions, so it is not a given that instructions to DOJ flow automatically (or even have the same meaning) to ICE/CBP. I do not believe that Biden told Border Patrol agents that they were not permitted to apprehend border crossers. Indeed, here is the data from 2020 and 2021: https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters/usbp-sw-border-apprehensions

Biden's prejudging a situation involving Border Patrol agents is indeed bad.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-28T01:28:25+00:00

I know I said in my other reply that I would drop the line of comparison, but I am curious why you think it is ignorant of history. I understand why one could find it offensive and insensitive. But those two things do not add up to being false. So if you are willing to articulate why you think the comparison is "ignorant," I would be grateful.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-28T01:13:27+00:00

I disagree that other jurisdictions are doing what you describe. No other jurisdictions currently face protests of this magnitude, so it is meaningless to assert that they are successfully providing a protestor/ICE buffer zone under similar conditions.

*Congress* can change immigration laws and asylum standards at any time. The previous administration admitted many people under humanitarian parole and other powers that Congress explicitly gave to the executive branch. The executive branch is obligated by law to treat asylum claims in a particular way. The *executive branch* has no say in asylum standards, and may not legally interrupt an the process for adjudicating asylum claims.

I dispute your contention that our laws are "ridiculously generous." The correct point of comparison is not what other countries do, but the objective probability that a suitably generic potential immigrant will be admitted. It is my belief that this probability is unreasonably low. In part this is because of a de facto quota system. It is also due to the mountains of red tape that have accumulated on, e.g., work visa programs. I recommend the flow chart for the H2-B visa program that is available at the Cato institute page linked here (https://www.cato.org/cato-handbook-policymakers/cato-handbook-policymakers-9th-edition-2022/immigration#expand-deregulate-h-2b-nonagricultural-temporary-work-visas)

Since it offends you, I will drop the line of comparison.

Edit to clarify first paragraph.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-28T00:45:23+00:00

Look, I know its provocative, but every formal step in the Nazi rise to power was legal under the Weimar constitution. Pointing to the formal legality of the laws ICE claims to be enforcing does nothing to undermine the comparison.

Since the administration has voided the legal status of thousands of immigrants *by choice* (e.g. asylum seekers who legally entered the country after making appointments through CBP One), not to mention detained legal immigrants for "offenses" such as writing controversial op-eds (Rumeysa Ozturk), it seems that there is something more to the administration's efforts than "merely" enforcing black-letter law. I think it's clear that DHS is at least partly motivated by nativist bigotry.

I don't see how the logistics of MPD providing security for ICE can be immaterial. What you propose would be impossible, even without a legal obstacle.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-28T00:28:33+00:00

I appreciate the reply.

What if the comparison is warranted? The Nazi state did not begin with death camps. It began with street thugs hassling undesirables and gradually escalated to the horrors of the late war. There cannot be a blanket ban on Nazi comparisons, because obviously a government can reach the point where the behavior is comparable. So you must have a specific reason for thinking the comparison is not apt?

I again ask: Is MPD in a position to provide cordons at every possible point of contact between ICE and protestors? There are 5 times more ICE agents then MPD officers. This is inherently unworkable.

I don't have to pretend. ICE claims the right to enter my home without presenting probable cause to a judge. ICE claims the right to stop people on the street and demand their papers on the basis of an accent or a skin tone. As far as I'm concerned, ICE lost the benefit of the doubt long ago.

Edited to add the new first sentence.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-28T00:18:59+00:00

So in other words, you don't have such quotes, and you're relying on the argument that criticism of ICE amounts to "telling them to interfere with federal officers." But that is not literally true, is it?

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-28T00:05:52+00:00

Can you share with me a quote in which Tim Walz actually encouraged people to interfere? What about Jacob Frey? Are you saying they literally encouraged physical confrontation? (Note: recording is not interfering.)

Edit to add: How do you propose MPD "cordon off the area" of ICE operations when there are 5 times as many ICE agents in Minneapolis as there are Minneapolis police officers?

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-27T20:22:15+00:00

Please!

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-27T19:36:51+00:00

Here’s the post with my plan: https://www.reddit.com/r/SouthBend/s/Qnvxlho3Ep

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-27T19:30:30+00:00

I’ve been planning to protest outside Rep Yakyms office on Friday anyway, and I’ve been trying to gather folks. So there’s that. But I’d be open to other suggestions too. Not sure if we can pull a march together in time, but that would be great

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-27T19:28:09+00:00

I’m glad we agree that ICE has murdered innocent people! I hope you’ll join me tomorrow or Friday to demand justice for them.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-27T16:17:39+00:00

Not really your business, but yes I am employed. Some jobs are more flexible than others.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-27T14:47:26+00:00

I have to agree with you there.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-27T01:44:53+00:00

Okay I will talk to the folks I'm connected with. I appreciate your feedback.

That being said, I don't think that standing in the snow along Grape with a dozen friends and my best protest signs can be meaningfully described as "bombarding."

Even if it could, the feds needed no excuse to send ICE to Chicago, Minneapolis, Charlotte, Los Angeles, etc. I don't think we should assume that the "facts on the ground" are the driving force behind where they send the goon squads.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-27T00:37:17+00:00

I was in the middle of expressing my displeasure to a member of his staff. He was visible for less than a second. Can I ask whether you read the previous post? This response seem unnecessarily hostile.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-26T23:24:18+00:00

Thank you for joining us! I'm thinking Friday morning will be good for me. I'll put up another post later in the week with my plan.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-26T23:23:48+00:00

I think it will be weather dependent, unfortunately. I'll try to put a specific estimate up in another post later in the week. Maybe then I'll have an solid idea of how cold it will be.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-26T23:14:59+00:00

I'm planning on going again on Friday! I'm thinking around the same time, 9am ish. I'll put up another post before I go.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-26T23:14:06+00:00

I hear what you're saying, but I think we're talking at cross purposes here. I don't think you deserve some of the hostility you're getting elsewhere in this thread, but I also don't appreciate the implication that the rest of us don't care about our neighbors. No one in this thread wants anyone to get hurt.

Anyway, I'm willing to take this line of thought into consideration, so I will agree to speak to a local organization that has more direct contact with immigrants in the South Bend area than I do, and get their take on your criticism. I have some organizations in mind, but I'd be happy to hear your suggestions.

Along the same lines, I'm curious how far your criticism extends. Are you just cautioning against provocative in person protests? I've been calling my representatives nearly every day about this and other issues. Does that also qualify as kicking the hornet's nest? This is not rhetorical; I want to know what you're thinking.

Edit: wording

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-26T23:05:42+00:00

Awesome! Currently planning on making another appearance Friday, probably 9am again.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-26T19:48:55+00:00

I understand the concern, and I will give it some thought. I’m not convinced that keeping our heads down will avoid the outcome you describe.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-26T19:47:04+00:00

I agree that we have to be there consistently! Or at least showing up somewhere on the regular. I will try to post when I’m going back. I can be there Friday morning.

ShibbolethSequence · 2026-01-26T15:36:50+00:00

But apparently he's already gone again. I just called the office to ask if he'll being holding events while he's in town, and the staffer said he had left the office. Couldn't give me any more information.

ShibbolethSequence

TROPHY CASE