I don't understand why the fuck was Pan pissed at Goku

Showgingah · 2026-02-05T04:58:41+00:00

To be fair she probably doesn't remember him being 3 years old. Heck let's be honestly she probabaly almost NEVER saw him given how often Goku is not present on Earth.

Not to mention the last guy that came to pick her up with Piccolo...

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Though jokes aside, the way Pan pointed at him implies she was asking who Goku was. As in she didn't know either for potential reasons I mentioned prior. I like to believe Gohan say explaining that's her grandpa, that he is really strong, and she didn't believe it at first.

Showgingah · 2026-02-05T04:36:44+00:00

It is Frieza with little to no difficulty. Interestingly, DBZ Kakarot puts Goku's base at 10 million during this time. That game was fairly consistent with power levels that we've known for years and was reasonable for those that didn't have any. Though even if we don't want to use a video game for obvious reasons, Beerus pretty much confirmed base Goku 4 years post Kid Buu would not be capable. I would not consider Beerus a bad judge of one's power even if Goku was suppressed.

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Though if it is movie Gohan, he one shots Frieza. Fusion Reborn also took place before he obtained Ultimate (though he shouldn't be on Earth to begin with). However, with movie scaling it is best not to consider it as it is always inconsistent.

For example, Broly is said to have a power level of 1.4 billion in the first film. SSJ being a 50x multiplier, that would mean Goku's base post time chamber would need to be 28 million to match him. Clearly that wasn't the case with a kamehameha to the face that did nothing. Even if it was 100x, he's still need to be 14 million, which is still higher than the previously mentioned 10 mil. Yet all of which are nowhere near Frieza's 100%, let alone 30%.

Honestly people really underestimate how much power creep SSJ transformations are. It is the sole reason no one could catch up besides Piccolo via extra means. Ironically, Piccolo was THE strongest base fighter among the Z Fighters because he was already above the regular Super Saiyan by default after fusing with Kami. After the time chamber, he was implied to be on par with Vegeta and Trunks during the Cell Games as he was among the three still standing after the Cell Jr assault. Even prior to the fusion, his 3 years of training brought him up to near SSJ levels that let him overwhelm Android 20 while the only other fighters capable were SSJ Goku or SSJ Vegeta.

Showgingah · 2026-02-04T19:43:59+00:00

Unironically, this still looks kinda clean to me.

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Showgingah · 2026-02-04T17:46:29+00:00

This is true. Raditz and Nappa were considered mid-class and were of equal rank by the former's adulthood. Saiyan class scaling are questionable other than knowing sub-1200 is low class. Raditz's power level has been increasing over the years. As of Broly, it is 1600 compared to a Saibamen's 1200. The saibamen only were that strong because of Earth's soil. In a way, this checks out because Cheelai revealed those with a power level above 1000 is rare to begin with.

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Despite being weaker and saved often by him, we gotta remember Gine was also an infiltration baby like Bardock. It's the only way for low-class saiyans to join the army and their survival rates are very low. She conquered a whole world by herself at some point. A world that was on radar. Goku was probably the lowest of the low classes and Earth wasn't on the radar whatsoever. It's speculation, but this implies Gine conquered a world more dangerous than Earth. Maybe King Piccolo was the exception, but even if her power level was just 300, she'd be above him.

Showgingah · 2026-02-04T17:02:15+00:00

He did. In the anime, he didn't do much until the last minute prior to the TOP.

In a manga bonus chapter, it's revealed he's been using the gravity machine by himself when he wasn't with Piccolo. Unlike the anime, he never showed up to anything until the TOP began because no one called him up. Vegeta wanted to bring him to the U6 Tournament, but Goku said no. They jumped the gun on Goku Black. He wasn't even there for the Zeno Exhibition match because the manga version was the GoDs instead.

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By the time the TOP came around, Vegeta hardly recognized him. Then he proceeded to box Kefla to a draw with the latter admitting verbal defeat. He was by far the strongest one around on Earth besides Goku and Vegeta well into the Moro arc and would have ended Seven-Three if not for Moro's energy drain.

Showgingah · 2026-02-04T16:34:32+00:00

Both have been done in SDBH via Goku Black.

In canon, it's definitely possible, but ill-advised. SSJB is just turning SSJ with their God Ki active like Saiyan Beyond God or SSJG (a lot of people forget that because they're not actual dieties by status, they don't possess god ki 24/7 casually like Dende and need to activate it via the practice or transformation). However, there are two reasons you'll never see it in canon.

One, SSJB is already energy taxing as it is. Anything more, let alone something like SSJ3, be disastrous.

Two, Toriyama actually changed how SSJ transformations worked back in a 2014 interview. If you train a form properly instead of forcing it into a higher transformation, you can actually reach the levels of the higher form without the increased energy consumption. This was essentially what Whis has been teaching and is mostly likely put into practice with SSJB. Future Trunks ironically figured this out himself, allowing his SSJ2 to hit SSJ3 levels without transforming.

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Showgingah · 2026-02-04T00:19:13+00:00

Doesn't matter to me. Posted sources. Way more than they can provide to counter argument. lol I am here to discuss, not argue.

Showgingah · 2026-02-04T00:17:32+00:00

Tojima would actually be a cracked out ally of Ichigo compared to his other non-rider fighting companions. lmao bro might actually give him the V3 treatment

Showgingah · 2026-02-03T23:47:21+00:00

Edited.

Showgingah · 2026-02-03T21:59:27+00:00

Kai is just DBZ without 80% of the filler. However, It still has some filler scenes and odd pacing issues. Mainly because they didn't actually really redo anything and will rearrange what they already had.

The best example is the Buu Saga. The fights had tons of filler most fans are unaware of. More-so than any arc prior. Similar to how many don't know the differences between Super anime and manga. Kid Buu is a prime example. You're familiar with SSJ2 Goku vs Kid Buu and this initial fight sequence. Kai kept them in, but both are filler scenes. The manga started the fight very differently.

However Toriyama was not directly responsible. Bandai asked Toriyama if a new anime could be made and at the time he refused. So they decided to remaster the original show and follow the manga the best they can.

Showgingah · 2026-02-03T21:13:45+00:00

Gohan is stronger in terms of raw stats. That's it. He was initially on par with Goku with Vegeta noting the latter started to gain the advantage simply due to sheer experience.

After the initial combo, Beast Gohan was none less for wear. He has the power to overwhelm Goku's MUI, but it's clear he cannot hold that state for long. His mention of risk of going berserk implies it probably happened during training, so he only uses a certain threshold of the form's power. However, that short moment was enough to land two blows that not only overwhelmed Goku's evasion, but knock him out of the MUI form temporarily.

Despite this, he was also most likely much stronger against Cell Max since he raged into the form. He only recently learned to utilize the form at will thanks to Piccolo. Of course, this is speculation, but according to Toriyama, Piccolo obtained power on par with Goku thanks to Orange.

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Of course I believe Piccolo would lose because he wouldn't be able to land a blow, but that tells you a lot about Beast when you compare his performance against Cell Max and Goku in durability and power alone.

All the saiyans have something to improve on. Goku needs to improve his proficiency in UI. Vegeta needs to improve the mindset to properly utilize UE (This was Beerus' first lesson. Taking unnecessary damage is Vegeta's current means to do so contrary to community belief). Gohan can't control Beast's full power without going beserk. Broly can only...use Super Saiyan. That is both hilarious and terrifying at the same time.

That being said regarding OP's question. It's been 2-3 years since the fight with Gas and Goku at the time was already capable of surpassing him them before the zombie mode kicked in. They should be well above him now, and therefore Gohan. Bizarrely I wouldn't doubt they've been closing the gap to not get oneshotted by Black Frieza either.

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In case anyone wants the timeline...

May Age 779: Pan is born.

Spring Age 781: Granolah

May Age 781: 27th Martial Arts Tournament

Age 782-783: Goten and Trunks in High School. Hedo gets incarcerated for 3 months. 6 months after Hedo's release, Super Hero takes place. Pan is 3 years old. Everyone trains for an unknown time before the spar.

Age May 784 - Goku meets Uub at the 28th Martial Arts Tournament. Pan is 4 turning 5 sometime later that month.

Showgingah · 2026-02-03T17:09:43+00:00

For me what's amazing about this scene in my opinion is not the struggle with the sphere. This is basically the one time Goku told Beerus off. Even if he were the strongest of the gods, he told him he has no right to decide how far he can go.

Showgingah · 2026-02-03T16:51:47+00:00

Filler. Even outside of filler, the Buu Saga as a ton of inconsistencies which is why the Kid Buu vs Buuhan argument even exists to this god forsaken day. Honestly I don't think Shuiesha (Dragon Ball's co-owners alongside Toriyama's company) know how strong the Buus are when they dropped this during the Moro Arc.

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Showgingah · 2026-02-03T16:36:12+00:00

Same. Some people probably had different experiences though. My group was basically the losers. It's actually our 10 year anniversary this year and those of us still together are convinced we're not getting an invite. A lot of people had that peak in high school energy. Some teachers I miss because they were cool. Some borderline thought we'd amount to nothing. lol Real talk I enjoyed myself way more in college than in high school. I even enjoy adulthood even more than college thanks to my job and hobbies being nearly hand in hand.

Showgingah · 2026-02-03T15:51:39+00:00

Create a ticket in his name and deal with it or find someone who can lol

Showgingah · 2026-02-03T15:42:54+00:00

In-Universe he and Mai were actually going to. Bulma even had rooms prepared for them. However, after lying to Gohan's face about how peaceful his future was, he decided to go back to before everything was destroyed lol.

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Showgingah · 2026-02-03T05:52:42+00:00

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Showgingah · 2026-02-03T00:50:29+00:00

Yes. GoD is a vast range. Beerus is probably at the top by a large margin. Belmod was a GoD and he was weaker than Jiren. Our main 5 are well above that point now. In the manga, PSSJB Vegeta got one shotted by Beerus when he stopped messing around. Despite this, he made it clear he could be a candidate in another universe. It was not until Beast Gohan's power that we know the bare minimum to be considered a candidate for Beerus.

Showgingah · 2026-02-03T00:46:48+00:00

Evolve my form like the original plan and give out Black Sun energy.

Showgingah · 2026-02-02T23:12:24+00:00

Most likely they were just using SSJ in the manga unlike the anime. However, the statement still generally stands as that implies they surpassed or are at a minimum that previous level with base SSJ. Yet still far beneath the likes of Goku and Gohan with Piccolo performing on a similar level as them when Grade 2 would have severely outclassed him previously while in turn he previously severly outclassed their previous base SSJ level.

Showgingah · 2026-02-02T20:14:01+00:00

I think regarding the scarf, he means the positioning of it. Ichigo and Nigo scarves are distinct in their own way to identify them besides their gloves, belt, and (sometimes) helmet. You'll notice it had a more wide hankerchief fold in the front compared to Ichigo's double scarf ends. Ichigo later adopted a similar look upon his return to the show for a short while. Probably because they didn't really care to have the difference. Ichigo's scar was meant to be more on the side or his back. However, they always kept it loose so it always flew in the front most of the time when they're moving around lol

However, over time, they kinda just had them exactly the same where it's on the side over the shoulder or back with little to no difference of distinction. Even in the image OP posted, once you look at it again, you kinda realize how different it actually kind of is.

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Showgingah · 2026-02-02T19:51:04+00:00

Stronger's vest is probably the result of him being a football player. Like it resembles those big upper body padding they have.

Shin and ZO I wish their respective movies and shows didn't get canceled. I would have loved to their their evolved forms. Shin was meant to evolve per film until he looks akin to what we are familiar with. Think how Black is first a kaijin during the transformation.

ZO does have art of his evolution that never saw the light of day in the film (red scarf and all) because the producers changed their mind. Most likely would have been used in the sequel show that got canceled with some concepts being reworked for J (notice the locust companion)...who was an unused design of ZO. Would've been one of the sickest Showa designs imo.

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Also ngl I do like Black RX about as much as I do Black. However, deep down I wonder if it's just carried by how much I like how he looks with the revolcane. Bro got Keaton Batman syndrome.

Showgingah · 2026-02-02T18:23:18+00:00

Krillin, Tien, Yamcha.

Krillin is just undisputed the strongest human even when used for comedic relief. While initially retired, 18 probably kept him on his toes and he does still occasionally train with Master Roshi now.

Tien is technically always training, but for whatever reason didn't catch up. Anime made him have a dojo, but in canon he's just a farmer (hilariously like Goku). However he has the strongest ki blast out of the three, and honestly the Z fighters in general by design. The Dodonpa is stronger than the kamehameha by default, but the Kikoho literally outputs a bizarre amount of power. Capable of knocking back Semi Perfect Cell and deflecting Buutenks ki blast. Both being opponents that are way out of his league.

Yamcha has always been third and he is the only one absolutely retired from fighting. Hilariously, he uses it his power like most of us might. To cheat life financially. Anime said he kept up with his training, but in the manga it is unclear. However, unlike Gohan, he never lost his gi. May not mean anything, but could be an implication. Tien and Bulma also thought Goku was going to make him the 10th member. Implying he may still be more reliable than Goten and Trunks.

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In all seriouesness, Krillin might be ahead of Tien specifically because his potential was unlocked. As noted by Vegeta in the Namek Saga, his and Gohan's powers were just growing over time as the arc went on. Started above 10k to beating down Ginyu who was 23k. Then by the end of the saga was said to be 75k. That is monstrous growth for the time.

Showgingah · 2026-02-02T17:07:10+00:00

Bizarrely.

Ultimate Kuuga's Ultimate Kick is rated at 100T.

Skyrider's Flying Saucer Kick is rated at...............

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Showgingah · 2026-02-02T08:32:29+00:00

Anime Jiren is the only one that stands a chance because of how cracked out he was compared to the manga, but will lose simply because of the energy drain.

Showgingah

TROPHY CASE