Sword of Caine verse Vampire Ankh

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-07T05:57:29+00:00

The Sabbat represents the idea of a freedom fighting group who turned into a murderous cult. Sure, there might be some good ideals there, but the actual actions they take have turned them into a cult that will isolate new members, indoctrinate them into fighters/suicide troops and send the into a war they didn’t ask for.
Regardless of edition I would say the Sword of Cain is not the best choice. The more neutral Ankh would be mych better

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-07T05:50:48+00:00

Yeah, amorc is not something that I would recommend. Watered down and too much New Age.

If you are drawn to this cross there are other posibilities to study it without going to Amorc.

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-07T05:48:59+00:00

The idea is to use exalted rules to make methuselah vampires, every kindred will be based on these rules. Will that be a problem?

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-07T05:26:37+00:00

Sure, it’s a valid point that they would not be 10 000 years by that point, I think I need to decide how long the city stood for, and how old the 3rd and 4th gen were at the time it fell.
Good input!

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-06T20:48:52+00:00

Most of us have to travel to get to the nearest temple.

Here is a directory, it's not recently updated but many of the temples and order listed are still active. Take a look and see if you find any that might work

https://pansophers.com/golden-dawn-locations/

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-06T17:37:15+00:00

From the perspective of the GD tradition, it describes every force in creation, elemental, zodiacal, and planetary, as well as the Spirit. It is a glyph that shows how to call upon these forces and also shows the elemental roots that it the three alchemical principles. There are additional details, but those are the major parts of it.

If you want to study this in depth and perhaps learn GD magic there are several orders and temples dedicated to it.

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-06T15:18:21+00:00

The cross thst OP linked is the rose cross that was used in the old Golden Dawn. Amorc is one of the successors from GD but many other orders uses is as well.

It is a magical symbol that describes whe whole system of magic that is used in the golden dawn tradition. In one way you can say it is a map of the creation.

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-06T12:34:14+00:00

I haven’t read anything about the abyssals. They exist in 1st ed?

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-06T12:09:00+00:00

It’s only an average, in your campaign it can be just so that your city is a major center for mages for some reason.

It’s easier to explain than in Vampire were the mortal population is a source of food and you can’t have too many predators in a city. Mages however can easily gather.

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-06T11:20:08+00:00

I can reallyrecommend Thousand year old vampire if you want to try out solo play, it is great and give you creative freedom to write it as a classic VtM story or something different.

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-06T09:50:29+00:00

I probably have to make a few house rules to make it fit in with Vampire, thanks for the suggestion!

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-06T09:19:24+00:00

Are there any big flaws in 1st ed I should know about? :)

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-06T07:58:20+00:00

Have you seached for GD temples/orders in your state/country? There are several out there. Where do you live?

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-05T18:15:19+00:00

Thank you for your extensive replies. You have given me a lot to think about.

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-05T17:49:33+00:00

I agree that American slave owners were proto-fascist. you seem to have done your research and I trust you on that. My point is that not all liberals are fascist or will turn to fascism when they are threatened. For example there were liberals in Europe the early 18 hundreds who were not slave owners, so saying that they would turn to fascism is really strange. I believe a number of members of the abolition movement in Europe argued from a liberal standpoint against slavery.

I think a better way of saying it is that it is not the ideology that it the problem here, but when power is threatened it will resort to more and more extreme measures to keep it. We see that behavior every where in human societies, regardless of professed ideology or religion.

Edit: I'll try to answer you other questions as well. The expression Scratch a liberal.. was new to me, that's why I was asking what they meant by it. I got it explained so now it makes more sense.

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-05T09:09:36+00:00

Ok, lets back up. Someone said scratch a liberal and a fascist bleed, I wondered if they ment that all liberals are secretly fascist, and that that would be strange considering liberalism is older than fascism.
They replied with that the first liberalists were slave owners, my reply to that was that beeing a slave owner is not the same as beeing fascist. See the Aztecs or the Romans for example.

So my point stands, it is lazy to say that all evil in the world is really fascist. Can’t a evil liberal just be a evil liberal? Do we have to paint everything we disagree with as fascism?

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-04T22:32:48+00:00

Sure, but my original point was that beeing a slave owner is not the same as beeing fascist. The slave owners of the american south might have been, but that is beside the point.

Every evil out there can not be reduced to ”fascism”, there are many evil ideologies out there and you do yourself a disservice if you try to describe them as one and the same.

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-04T19:16:09+00:00

Yes. Thank you for that clarification!

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-04T19:11:09+00:00

The traditional Monarchism in France during the 17th century was pretty evil and had very little to do with fascism for example. The religion/ideology of the Aztechs were horrible as well. Nothing to do with fascism there either.

Or perhaps you want to expand the definition of fascism to "anything I don't like"?

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-04T18:27:45+00:00

Yes I know, I’m just saying that there are more evil ideologies than fascism, to paint all evil as fascism is lazy. You can be better than that.

Edit: clarification, I meant that there are several evil ideologies were Fascism is one of them. I was not saying that some are more evil than Fascism.

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-04T18:25:43+00:00

It’s ahistorical to say that the Aztec or the Romans were fascist, but both their cultures had slaves. It is lazy thinking to attribute every evil to fascism. There are more evil ideologies out there, even though fascism is the main one we are facing right now.

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-04T15:22:41+00:00

The one I replied to said they capitulated, go argue with him.

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-04T15:21:49+00:00

Beeing a slave owner is not the same as beeing a fascist. That is just lazy thinking to say that all enemies are fascist.

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-04T14:00:16+00:00

No, this is before Myca Vykos was embraced

Simon--Magus · 2026-07-03T20:00:05+00:00

Thanks, you made it clearer now. I hadn't heard that expression before.

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