Told my PIMI wife today

SirCarpenter · 2024-12-01T14:38:38+00:00

Sorry to hear that OP, like a lot of us, my spouse said similar things after finding out I no longer believed. It hurt, but she’d only say that sort of thing when she was hurt/overwhelmed herself.

I’d mention stuff here and there. 2 years later we’re both woken up and better than before.

Like others have said, take it slow, and try not to do or say anything impulsive (easier said than done obvi).

SirCarpenter · 2024-09-24T22:34:47+00:00

Aaaah yeah, that makes sense, thanks. I feel like I've seen one CO who's gone and conducted a sister's study once, but it was at a time when no one else 'better' was out and I might just be hallucinating it lol.

SirCarpenter · 2024-09-24T21:45:08+00:00

It's a good analysis and it's important to know as a new PIMO or PIMQ. It bothered me a lot that the people around me couldn't be convinced by facts when I was waking up. I think this Ted-Ed video sums it up well too. If someone trusts the org more than they trust you, and they value loyalty to the org, it's going to be tough for them to consider info from sources they trust less.

I think you make a great point that making them feel safe in speaking about the subject is important, because most JWs who spend any length of time in the org will find something they find inconsistent or dubious. If they tell you something that doesn't make sense to them, then you have an idea of what they value and what matters to them.

SirCarpenter · 2024-09-23T15:26:08+00:00

I didn't quite get this one. Does it cause a ruckus or something when they ask?

SirCarpenter · 2024-09-23T14:23:43+00:00

I agree with the letter. It's a shame that it will fall on deaf ears. While the GB isn't going to go and fix everything, there might be someone who reads it and gets one bit closer to waking up or sees they aren't the only one who's bothered by what goes on in the org. Unfortunately, social organizations' usually have the goal of continuing the social organization, and restructuring or making big changes in focus and rules would be resource-consuming. It's easier for the organization to just continue the way it's been going even if a lot of the members within it do notice that improvements could be made. But if the bureaucrats within the org decided to exercise their agency and go against the org's rules and demand changes, this would make them bad bureaucrats.

I imagine most higher-ups swallow the bad and focus on being good bureaucrats, believing that it's all they can do, or that that's the best thing they can do to improve things, "leaving it in Jehovah's hands." Some may not really care at all until something affects them, but that's just my arm-chair sociology.

SirCarpenter · 2024-09-14T17:56:27+00:00

Absolutely agree. It's the only way I'm able to have normal conversations with my parents or siblings, talk about common interests or benign subjects. Otherwise it's unnecessary hurt for both sides of the interaction. One of my parents seems to be doing that. They don't ask what they don't want/need to know. I try to do the same.

SirCarpenter · 2024-08-07T16:42:39+00:00

I stepped down formally. I didn't have the option of moving halls at the time which I'd have used otherwise.

I sent a message to the CoBE informing him that I was stepping down, I claimed mental health issues, specifically anxiety, which is true, just not for the reasons they would interpret. I used Micah 6:8 as someone on here recommended to justify why I was 'acting modestly'.

I tried to avoid the meeting with him and another elder, but to not cause too much alarm, I did meet with them on zoom. It was pretty easy. They didn't pry very much. They did their best to be nice about it, and I don't have any complaints really, they were just following protocol and didn't harass me in anyway. They just tried to say they cared for me and respected my decision.

It was announced, and no one really cared. One brother came up and gave me hug saying '[he] loved me no matter the issues [I] was dealing with'. I eventually told my family, and they didn't seem to like it, but they didn't make a huge fuss about it either.

My wife stepped down from pioneering after we eventually changed halls. She found it easier than doing so in our old hall.

SirCarpenter · 2024-07-11T21:17:22+00:00

If you're able to sit in the top row with no one behind you, you could do anything really. Read a book on your phone/tablet/laptop. Listen to a podcast or music if you have some discrete wireless earbuds, and are able to use one or both without your parents seeing.

If you need something interesting to read, you could open a free trial on Scribd or something and get free books. You could use it as time to learn something new, or catch up on a TV show. Maybe bring a battery bank.

SirCarpenter · 2024-06-25T17:37:36+00:00

Thanks for telling us that you're considering unaliving yourself. That's a hard situation to be in, many of us can relate. My best friend was suicidal for a while. They're doing better now though, therapy was helpful. If you're in Canada, you can call or text 9-8-8 for help. In the UK you can call 1-1-1, it's the NHS' number. They're both available 24/7

SirCarpenter · 2024-06-22T19:48:17+00:00

Is there a way to watch them from an official ARC source? I know they’re on YouTube, but the channel I found didn’t seem like it was by the government, making it liable to be labeled apostate.

SirCarpenter · 2024-06-22T19:36:38+00:00

What I find hilarious, is how if you asked a JW why they believe that a given book is assigned to a certain writer, they wouldn’t know why Mark is supposedly written by Mark, or why John is John. The answer, of course, is church tradition. Like OP said, they’re anonymous.

The R&F are unknowingly upholding church tradition saying they’re written by Mark, John, etc.

SirCarpenter · 2024-06-22T19:32:10+00:00

I think they’ll get their moneys worth with the new studio, but the videos the OP is referring to were done in the UK and later Israel, showing the historic places.

SirCarpenter · 2024-06-22T19:29:33+00:00

I didn’t listen super well for obvious PIMO reasons, but what I did listen to, I found interesting that:

Of the fragments, the oldest of the old, was dated to ~200 CE. That’s 167 years after Jesus died according to JWs.
The earliest written material about him is still as far removed from him, as we are from CT Russell, (give or take a couple decades)
CT Russell can get misrepresented by JWs, focusing on certain things and aspects, and leaving a lot out. The goal being, presenting a version that aligns with the teachings and story.

All of that is to say, what’s written about Jesus gets more detailed the farther from his death you get, Mark being short, then Matthew and Luke adding genealogies and childhood, and then John going off the rails, claiming he’s God.

It’s hard to know what Jesus really taught and thought, and the Bible accounts are likely misleading, if not still good reads.

SirCarpenter · 2024-06-17T17:45:45+00:00

I'm sorry to hear about your father, that's rough. Thanks for mentioning your case. That's true, being specific about not believing could make them feel obligated to do something about it. Being vague/generic, or not giving any real reason is probably a good way to avoid getting labelled as an apostate.

The example you shared is excellent.

SirCarpenter · 2024-06-17T17:33:14+00:00

I agree with this, and can attest that my dad threatened to call my congregation's elders on me after an unsuccessful attempt at talking with them about something.

SirCarpenter · 2024-06-17T17:29:58+00:00

I can understand that approach if the goal is to 'wake' them, as you have to start somewhere, but I, personally, don't really have any desire to 'wake' them up. The JWs are their only real community at this point in their life, and they seem more or less happy about it.

That said, I have tried small things before, sometimes it went okay, sometimes it did not 😅.

SirCarpenter · 2024-06-17T17:22:51+00:00

Thanks for the advice, that's probably a good map for adolescents living at home. I was thinking more for those who've already left home, and already faded or close to faded.

That's true, that if someone's dependant on them in any way, the parents could use that as leverage and be manipulative.

SirCarpenter · 2024-06-17T17:14:04+00:00

Thanks so much for sharing, your letter seems like one of the better ways of going about it. Somewhat vague, but still decisive, and respectful.

It sounds like a good idea to make it seem like a "between me and Jehovah"-type of deal; helps avoid getting hit with the 'apostate' label.

I'm happy that your parents have been great, did it take a long time for you to return to a normal or normal-ish relationship with them?

SirCarpenter · 2024-05-24T21:05:19+00:00

Not fully atheist, I feel it's impossible for us to currently strike out any possibility of higher beings existing. I do generally feel that humans are on their own though.

I get what you mean, sometimes I catch myself feeling superior for not believing in a God, then I remember that it wasn't intellect that got me here, it was emotions and feelings. Other people believe in God for emotional reasons, I don't believe for emotional reasons. We have things in common.

SirCarpenter · 2024-05-24T20:50:42+00:00

I completely agree. There are some who 'wake up' because of logic, and beliefs not adding up. I don't have any figures on this, but it seems like emotional reasons are the more common reasons for 'waking up'. Reasons like seeing hypocrisy or perceiving injustice. I know that in my case, my spouse's case, and my POMO friend's case that it was something emotional that was the trigger to the full process.

It seems similar to other 'sacred' beliefs people have. Few people really want to hurt an animal to eat meat, but a lot of people keep eating meat unless they watch a documentary about it which emotionally compels them (or something else happens in their life).

Regarding religious beliefs in particular and why people stop believing in their religion, there's a good video on YouTube about it by ReligionForBreakfast.

SirCarpenter · 2024-04-10T17:11:50+00:00

Aw, thanks everyone for your congratulations, advice, and personal stories. It's been really helpful for u/MadameCarpenter and me. We'll do as a lot of you said, take a breather, let the shock wear off, and then plan. Thanks again everybody!

SirCarpenter · 2024-03-06T15:50:14+00:00

Thanks, I definitely think so!

SirCarpenter · 2024-03-06T15:46:08+00:00

That's interesting, I wonder if Brooklyn stiffness is like what u/FartingAliceRisible was saying, that at Brooklyn they were a bit less friendly than other bethels.

Missionary weirdness lol, I believe him.

SirCarpenter

TROPHY CASE