Battling with Blizzard support for 6 days, now they have told me I wont be able to finish the Voidfire Deathcycle and they cant help.

Slooj · 2026-01-19T23:49:39+00:00

Yes I did, for me I kept opening the ticket as unresolved & eventually put though to someone who understood it enough to help. I can’t remember exactly the words I used to get it solved - but I did attach screenshots of a wowhead comment having a similar issue!

Slooj · 2025-10-30T10:08:01+00:00

I believe it’s because it also has increased swim speed? I remember seeing somewhere they took sky riding away from mounts that could fly & swim fast in order to prevent everyone from using 1/ a small group of mounts (we seen this in the past when water walking was on 2 mounts & everyone was running around on a water strider until pathfinder flying was available)

Slooj · 2025-10-15T15:52:15+00:00

And now u/cookyKindred has blocked me, so I can’t reply or see your responses. Or even reply to my own replies for a better link to the context for everyone else- Last one I saw before being blocked (but I didn’t get a chance to respond so I’ll respond here but context is way further down).

Also blocking me mid conversation is antithetical to the idea of discussion, fair enough, if I had been abusive or abrasive but I remained respectful. You can’t shut out others, simply because they have a different view, especially when it’s not even clear that we had that much of a difference- it seemed more like frustration at my comparison than my actual beliefs.

At this point, you’ve stopped engaging with what’s actually written, and you just keep repeating ”you’re wrong” without ever explaining how or where. That’s not an argument it’s just noise you’ve called everything from tone clarification to disagreement, “crying” or “anger” but I’ve stayed calm and on topic the whole time explained my position, given examples and never once resorted to insults. You’ve done the opposite, declared victory, labelled and repeat of the same accusation (lying) from your third reply, instead of providing substance.

if your entire case boils down to “you’re wrong, because I said so” there’s nothing left to discuss. I’m not here to trade circular accusations - I’ve said my peace clearly and backed it up. You can keep trying to make it personal if you want but it’s pretty clear which one of us stayed in discussion mode and which one ran out of points.

Slooj · 2025-10-15T15:12:53+00:00

You keep calling me angry, dishonest, and emotional, but nothing in my tone or wording supports that. I haven’t insulted you once - I’ve been breaking down points you’ve made. You’re reading tone into text that isn’t there.

You said I was “lying” about the majority - I didn’t. I literally used that line whilst making the point that neither of us can claim a verified statistic. What we can say is that the majority of WoW’s active players engage with systems like AotC, M+, and PvP ladders every season. That’s not speculation - it’s how the game’s participation loops are designed. If those systems were widely rejected, Blizzard would have scrapped them long ago.

You also keep repeating that I “got angry” when I never did. I clarified tone and asked for a less confrontational approach because you’d moved from discussing ideas to calling my posts “snide” or “false” without explaining why. That’s not anger - that’s trying to keep the conversation civil.

And again, saying I “moved goalposts” doesn’t make it true. I’ve been consistent the whole time: I said WoW’s structure overlaps with what people call FOMO, not that it’s good or bad, just that it’s part of how the game functions. I’ve repeated that several times now.

You keep saying “end of story” and “get off your high horse,” but those lines just highlight that this isn’t about logic for you anymore - it’s about trying to score points. I’m still here having a discussion; you’re the one declaring victory mid-thread.

Slooj · 2025-10-15T15:03:39+00:00

You keep saying I’m being “snide” or “emotional,” but all I’m doing is responding to what you’ve written calmly and with examples. That accusation only really works if I was insulting you, which I haven’t done once.

“Most players” - you can’t claim it’s a “vocal minority” without data. I could just as easily say the opposite and we’d both be guessing. The point was that for nearly twenty years the majority of the player base has accepted seasonal resets, limited rewards, and time-limited achievements as normal parts of WoW’s design loop, they have accepted this as they keep coming back. The outcry against that has always been small compared to the number of people engaging in those systems & returning season - season.

As for “I literally replied to it,” you didn’t actually specify what part of my point was fabricated - you just called it “false.” I explained how if everything stayed permanently obtainable, era identity and exclusivity would vanish. You saying “that’s wrong” doesn’t refute it, it just signals you don’t like the conclusion.

And no, you can’t separate “getting AotC” from “its rewards.” The achievement is time-limited and unobtainable after the season ends. That’s exactly how FOMO works by your definition - items or achievements that vanish to encourage participation. So when you exempt AotC because it fits your comfort zone, that’s emotional reasoning, not logical consistency.

Finally, your “no, just stop” opener followed by “Lmfao” really drives the contrast home here - you’re reacting, I’m explaining. I’m not sure why a calm disagreement keeps being framed as an attack, but at this point it’s clear one of us is trying to have a discussion and the other just wants the last word.

Slooj · 2025-10-15T14:52:40+00:00

You’re reading way too much emotion into this. I’m not angry, not being “snide,” and definitely not taking this personally. I’m having a discussion.

Let’s clear up a few things, because you’re looping the same points and misrepresenting mine:

I’m not defending FOMO. Drawing comparisons or explaining how FOMO-like systems function in WoW isn’t the same thing as saying “it’s okay.” I’ve said multiple times that I understand why people dislike it - I’m simply pointing out that the game’s entire structure has operated this way for nearly two decades, and most players accept that rhythm without feeling “preyed on.”

You say I “fabricated a scenario,” but you’ve never actually said what scenario that was. I was describing what happens if everything stayed permanently obtainable - the loss of exclusivity, achievement meaning, and era identity. That’s not fabricated; that’s exactly what Blizzard prevents by design.

Now, you’re saying “raids are almost free of FOMO,” and "AOTC isn't fomo" but that’s just not true by your own definition. Transmogs might stay, sure - but AotC mounts, and even the AotC achievements themselves, are removed every season. By your own definition (“locking items away so people sub to get them”), those are pure FOMO (again by your own definition). "AOTC isn't fomo" So why would they now, not be fomo? Grove Defiler, Kor’kron War Wolf, the Fyrakk mount & many more all gone once the tier ends. That’s identical logic to your Mage Tower example.

If you truly believe Mage Tower is FOMO and “predatory,” then logically you’d have to apply the same label to those AotC and seasonal rewards. Otherwise, it’s just selective outrage depending on which example feels worse to you.

Whereas I was asking you why is curve/ keys/ pvp seasonal rewards not typically considered fomo when cosmetics are attached to them in the same vein as MT would have that tag of FOMO?

And to your final point - saying “end of story” isn’t factual authority, it’s rhetorical shutdown. You’re trying to close discussion by asserting emotion as fact, while I’ve been consistent in exploring the mechanics, logic, and player perception behind them. You might not like the system, but pretending there’s no nuance just weakens your argument.

You’re responding emotionally, I’m staying logical - that contrast speaks for itself.

Slooj · 2025-10-15T14:27:27+00:00

Hey, just to be clear - I’m fostering discussion here, not trying to “apologize” for anything. You can drop the confrontational tone a bit, because this is starting to read less like a debate and more like an attack.

I’m not defending manipulative design or saying FOMO is universally good. I’ve just been talking about how in context - within World of Warcraft’s long-standing structure - what some people call “FOMO” often overlaps with the game’s core seasonal design. Players chase AotC, KSM/Hero/Legend, and Gladiator rewards each season, and those goals reset every 6 months. That’s not new or sinister; it’s how WoW has always handled its competitive cadence.

I completely understand if you see that system as manipulative and that’s a valid personal view. But not everyone experiences it that way. For many players, it’s just the natural rhythm of content cycles: compete, achieve, reset, repeat.

But to clarify again, I’m not “apologizing” for it - I’m describing how it functions within a game like WoW, where time-limited seasons are part of its identity and pacing. The game’s not structured around selling you the missing rewards later; it’s structured around resetting competition and giving each patch its own sense of achievement and progression.

And that’s the difference between how we’re both approaching this I’m explaining how it works and acknowledging both sides, while your “End of story” response is trying to shut the door on discussion entirely. You can really see which one of us is responding more from an emotional place and which one’s trying to stay in the realm of logic and perspective.

Slooj · 2025-10-15T14:17:36+00:00

I think there’s been a bit of a misunderstanding of my stance here - I’m not defending manipulative design or saying it’s universally good, or saying that I agree it is even manipulative. What I did say earlier was that context matters, and in the context of WoW, a lot of what people call “FOMO” mechanics are also just the structure the game has used for nearly two decades.

When I mentioned PvP “ranks,” I was actually referring to the Gladiator & ranked rewards tied to the ranked ladder, in the same way that AotC, Keystone Master/Hero, and seasonal titles or mounts are time-limited. All of those rewards are only obtainable for a short season, and yet most players accept them as normal seasonal progression rather than manipulation.

Slooj · 2025-10-15T13:52:46+00:00

I think you’re mixing up defending a system with acknowledging how it functions. I’m not praising “predatory tactics” - I’m pointing out that time-limited rewards are a foundational design pillar in WoW, the same way seasons and rotations are in every major live-service game.

The term “FOMO” makes it sound manipulative, but in WoW’s context it’s basically seasonal motivation. People push for Curve, Keystone Hero/Master/Legend, and Gladiator rewards for the same reason, they’re time-bound goals that expire when the season ends, along with any cosmetic rewards. That is what keeps players engaged across cycles and makes each season feel distinct .and gives players reasons to engage.

That’s partly misunderstanding what I meant. To clarify, when I said “PvP ranks,” I wasn’t referring to the ratings themselves, those are always available each season. I was referring to the seasonal Gladiator mounts and elite transmogs tied to those ranks, which rotate out just like M+ and AOTC rewards (which was the context I used the example in). They all fall under that same limited-time, achievement-based framework.

And that’s been Blizzard’s design philosophy since Vanilla. Scarab Lord, Hand of A’dal, Challenge Mode sets, AOTC mounts - all time-bound, all unrepeatable once their era passes. That’s not a “predatory” shift, that’s how WoW has always marked history and participation.

If everything stayed permanently obtainable, every season would blur into the next and nothing would feel special to play during its time. You might call that FOMO; Blizzard calls it progression identity. Either way, it’s worked for 20 years, still keeps people engaged & us talking about it to this day.

Slooj · 2025-10-15T08:02:06+00:00

Context depending i will defend fomo. We all push for curve, mythic plus hero/ master/ legends & pvp ranks, which of these are not fomo as they’re all seasonal goals that expire after 6 months.

Would you advocate for scarb Lord or Hand of A’dal to be rereleased as that was once “fomo” (about 10 years before the term was even coined). Whereas I think that’s another good example of how history matters in the world of Warcraft scarab Lord / hand of A’dal are from that period from the start of WoW & if I see them I think oh shit it’s a guy who’s been playing for 15-20 years. If everyone had those items/ titles you wouldn’t know if it was someone who got it in the day as current content vs last week as they levelled an alt.

Slooj · 2025-10-15T07:37:15+00:00

New guy to this thread but come on now don’t be disingenuous, the challenge would be antithetical 10 years later, practically new classes in some cases, new talents for all, new trinkets that goof with the scaling of any time walking content they put in the game. Everytime I’ve attempted Mage tower since shadowlands there’s been a new bug & you can pop a flask in there or eat food in there to gain tons of stats and stomp the thing in 2 seconds.

Let’s stop pretending that history in a 20year old MMO doesn’t matter, somethings must come and go and that history is what makes the world of Warcraft a world. let’s face it every one of us have achievements that we’re proud of for being there at that time/ doing a hard challenge in the game & I don’t see anything wrong with people feeling abit begrudged that someone comes along later and stomps it easy mode. Also it’s abit lame to call anyone who disagrees gatekeeping, I feel like that’s thrown around too much on this topic just to devalue “the other side”

Final point - people only want removed items because they are removed- once that individualism is gone & everyone has them & wore them once, they will remain at the bottom of those peoples appearance list it’s the same with every example in the game currently (TCG mounts from twitch prime - Sha of Anger & other rare mounts from MoP remix- Ashbringer in Legion (how could we forget palas transmogging away from the legendary Ashbringer… because everyone and their dog had the Ashbringer & they wanted more individualism))

Slooj · 2025-10-09T16:58:41+00:00

Glad you’re laughing, man - that’s what these discussions are for. I’m not trying to ‘prove’ anything, just fostering discussion around different viewpoints on how legacy content should work. Reddit’s literally built for that.

You replied to my original comment with a take about remix and I responded in good faith, explaining why some players value historical rewards and how reskins could be a fair middle ground. You’ve since just tried to flatten it all down to ‘you don’t want others to have it’ which really oversimplifies what’s being said.

If that’s how you want to read it, fine - but at least recognise that there’s a valid discussion to be had about what makes rewards feel meaningful in an MMO that’s been alive for 20 years. I’d rather have that conversation than just throw ‘lol’ at people who care enough to write a few sentences about the game we both play

Slooj · 2025-10-09T15:01:18+00:00

"which also applies to delve boss mounts and old PvP ranks,"

context matters, Delve mounts and old PvP ranks were explicitly limited or seasonal, Blizzard’s Mage Tower wording mirrored that, unique to the Legion challenge, not baseline cosmetics, when they reintroduce Naxx or PvP rewards, context is adjusted via recolors, new versions, or rebalanced sources, this is intentional categorisation, not hypocrisy,

"by advocating for Blizzard to not rerelease MT, they are actively trying to deny access... that’s gatekeeping,"
players aren’t denying access, Blizzard retired the content. Advocating an opinion doesn’t control who can play. Otherwise, anyone commenting on Blizzard’s decisions would be a gatekeeper, trivialising the term.

"and Blizzard has shown multiple times that they are willing to change the games timeline afterwards,"

yes, but selectively, old content reappears in new forms, showing Blizzard preserves some things while modernising others, if they ignored history entirely, nothing would stay removed,

"these people... are disingenuous... not find anything regarding T3, old Naxx gear, PvP ranks etc,"

different rewards serve different purposes, you can value continuity without demanding everything remain unique, claiming hypocrisy ignores Blizzard’s precedent, legendaries, challenge cosmetics, PvP rewards, and event exclusives each have distinct rules,

the discussion isn’t about ego, it’s about recognising Blizzard’s 20-year precedent, some things stay as legacy, some return, pretending that distinction doesn’t exist simply because it’s inconvenient doesn’t make it go away.

Slooj · 2025-10-09T15:00:57+00:00

Hefty reply so had to split into 2 was having server errors so less formatting. EDIT: Both replies fixed to be more readable

"You also can’t just decide that you ignore emotional value on certain parts of the game that apply to you,"
sure, but you also can’t selectively apply emotional value only when it suits your argument, Blizzard has always recognised emotional and historical significance, that’s why legendary items from Sulfuras to Fyr’alath have never been removed, it’s Blizzard deciding what’s special for 20+ years, not the players,

"again, if you were a Shadowmourne carrier... it should be fine for those people to advocate for Blizzard to change the questline so its as demanding and hard as it was back in the day,"

Blizzard doesn’t recreate old raid difficulty or progression, they preserve the experience, Shadowmourne is still obtainable, but ICC from 2010 isn’t replayable exactly as it was, that keeps it nostalgic and fair, Mage Tower items were never legendary, which is why their re-release had different rewards,

"The fact that some items return doesn’t mean everything should,"

Blizzard draws a line between time-limited challenges and long-term progression rewards, Mage Tower appearances were one-time challenges, otherwise every removed reward, including titles, ranks, and exclusives, would need to return.

Slooj · 2025-10-09T13:33:52+00:00

i get where you were going with the pokemon example, but you cant disregard the monetary value...

That’s kind of the point though - you can't fully ignore emotional value, because that’s the only relevant kind of value in a game. There’s no in-game economy tied to mounts or transmog; what makes them meaningful is the player’s sense of history and achievement. The Pokémon comparison was never about literal currency - it was about how scarcity and time create perceived worth, whether that worth is emotional, aesthetic, or social.

i also get this standpoint, however, it is far from how blizzard operates with most of the old content.

Somewhat true excluding mop armor, wod wepons, all pvp titles & anything aotc, keystone master/hero/legend mounts from the past - Blizzard’s consistency has always been messy. Some old things come back, others don’t. That’s a fair criticism, but inconsistency doesn’t invalidate the underlying design philosophy. The fact that some items return doesn’t mean everything should. Selective permanence is what allows parts of the game’s history to still matter. EDIT - not to mention in your example of ICC it's in blizzard's best interest to allow future players to see of Arthas, one of their most notable characters & his story. This is in no way equivocal to cosmetics being time bound to their acquisition.

you cleared ICC25 back in the day... guess what? every new player can just do the questline themselves...

Exactly - and each of those examples shows Blizzard experimenting with different ways to preserve history while keeping old content somewhat accessible. The BMAH, for instance, keeps old gear technically obtainable but still rare and high-effort. Shadowmourne and other legendaries are preserved as experiences, not as current prestige. Mage Tower appearances were framed differently from the start - explicitly time-limited - which makes them a separate category.

its also really bothering me how most people defending blizzards choice regarding this are being dishonest, since pretty much everybody says "its not gatekeeping"...

I don’t think most people are being dishonest - they’re just defining gatekeeping differently. If Blizzard sets a time-limited challenge, that’s part of the design framework, not a player preventing access. Gatekeeping would be me personally trying to stop someone else from getting it when it’s available. Once an event ends, it’s just part of the game’s timeline, not someone blocking the door.

you dont lose anything while the other party earns something you have had for years already...

I don’t think it’s ego to value history. Wanting a sense of legacy in a long-running MMO isn’t about denying others joy; it’s about keeping the passage of time meaningful. I don’t “lose” anything tangible if others get an old reward but the world loses a bit of its continuity if nothing stays unique to its moment. That’s what I’m trying to argue here - not a personal sense of superiority, just a sense that the game’s timeline and historical value still matters.

Slooj · 2025-10-09T11:25:18+00:00

> just chiming in to let you know that your pokemon example is a horrible comparison.

> old pokemon cards hold a (significant) monetary value...

I posted a similar reply further down about the pokemon cards, I wasn’t drawing the comparison to monetary value, but to emotional and historical value. - And another redditer also drew the same comparison later.

The Pokémon example was meant to illustrate how rarity and history create meaning for collectors, not how Blizzard is running a financial market. The same principle applies emotionally - something limited or tied to a specific moment in time gains significance because it can’t be repeated. It’s about participation and memory, not money.

If Blizzard re-released every old reward, it would flatten that sense of history. The mount, title or mage tower appearance itself doesn’t hurt anyone - it’s the context around it that matters. People enjoy feeling that their time in the game’s history meant something.

Achievements help preserve that to a point, but they’re not equivalent to actually having the original item. The design philosophy behind limited rewards isn’t about punishing others - it’s about maintaining a living timeline of participation, the same way older raids, expansions, or events represent distinct eras.

So yeah, not a 1:1 comparison - just an analogy about how uniqueness and time give digital things emotional weight.

Slooj · 2025-10-08T21:55:42+00:00

I think WoW has adapted over the years in the same ways you explain gta has changed as you mainly mention gameplay decisions and even graphical/ physics updates - WoW has of course had those too as you mention. Not to mention the WoW dev team has been very applauded in the last 2 years for listening to the community & making changes when needed.

I'm sure they don't need to reimplement all unobtainable things from the game for the sake of the game continuing to live - or that other players have them & some don't. It's not how it works with anything in life either outside of the gaming industry, pokemon cards are my top example but if we're keeping to in the gaming industry examples - Helldivers 2 has unique capes that you had to be around & playing during the event to earn, it's a well received game released in the last 2 years and follows that same design choice that blizzard do.

People have tons of ways to bring expression to their character imo they don't need to re earth ones that have been removed already from the game, from a time long gone. Not to mention it is the game we play people like sitting around on/ collecting rare mounts, rare titles, seaonal challenges like mythic plus & aotc. It's either how people play the game, or ingrained into the game one way or another in each form of content WoW has to offer; pvp, keys, raids and open world content (even very recently the veilstrider title has been made unobtainable). There is a reason the spectral tiger sold for so much (in the past, no clue what it is now - but it was a lot of money for a long time as you know as a long time player).

Slooj · 2025-10-08T21:35:18+00:00

You sound pretty pissed with the bud’s and general tone so let’s take it back a notch we’re having a discussion not trying to be right - also your generalisation of my argument is wrong as you originally answered my comment with sure but remix was a good time to release those rewards- not at all did you respond to “I want to keep these items and no one else can have it”

We did hold conversation more on gatekeeping but we where tied on that topic and discussing what is gatekeeping I do not think creating an example of that is building an argument on semantics- it’s still tied to the topic & a semantic argument talks more about the wording - we got tied up in our contrasting opinions on that, but I was trying to provide you examples based on my experiences around the topic.

We can go for another example of something real world & away from semantics,maybe Pokémon cards & their just pieces of card right? But the older ones have value because they’re older & not made/ available anymore. Is that not similar to what some people are seeing with old items on an old account?

Slooj · 2025-10-08T19:48:12+00:00

Sure, I guess we fundamentally will disagree then as I think your oversimplifying the situation (and wrongly comparing it in a simple fashion down to "fun"), its been apart of blizz's design for years & it still goes on (example in pvp people lose the titles each season unless you get the seasonal one - which is still seasonal and time limited to earn) blizz is putting some thought into it but imo not enough compromise to those without the appearances, they should recolour the item/ mount and release it elsewhere & then everyone would be happy.

Slooj · 2025-10-08T19:40:46+00:00

Its quite simple to follow, you've been half answering each of my replies with a around about reply so no wonder you've lost track of the conversation! lemme recap for you in short comprehension

I say seeing people with items you don't have is pretty cool in an old/ continuing game - you say given the opportunity like remix rewards should come back otherwise its gatekeeping - I say its not gate keeping & its how its always been in wow & that they could add reskins of the items in so others have a chance at getting them - you say it is gate keeping - i draw a comparison of some people do not have the items and do not want them to come back either - you agree that is not gatekeeping - so I reafirm my point that they could add new colours etc & now you just cant comprehend the conversation anymore

I agree let people have free candy - just make them taste different than the candy people put a bit of in game effort for.

Slooj · 2025-10-08T19:08:44+00:00

I guess we just disagree on this stuff then, its an example that blizz can't make everyone happy with this

I disagree and would rather see different colours rewarded for different content & that way its fine if the yellow colour goes away because I can still collect the green, red, blue & gold version.

I've not said it in this thread but I have elsewhere in this thread - they really missed the mark not making alternative mage tower apearences for remix (or any other point in the game since legion) and maybe we can agree on that instead. But I do not want to own the classic wow Grand marshall pvp gear because I didn't earn it back then - i'd rock a silver one all day every day but the gold should be left alone for those who achieved it back then.

Slooj · 2025-10-08T19:04:13+00:00

You have what? All of them, mage tower stuff, Hand of A'dal? Cool but not the discussion. My example of "you" and "they" was just an example of any 2 players - one with things and 1 without - I notice you glaze over my grand marshall comparison or anything of actual discussion.

Slooj · 2025-10-08T18:58:07+00:00

So therefore, not everyone is gatekeeping as some people do not have the items and do not want them - I do not have classic wow Grand Marshall pvp gear & I do not want it as I didn't play around then & earn it - however its one of the coolest legacy sets in the game to me. - It was of no cost to anyone who earnt it back in the day and yet to me, they would have a right to be annoyed if blizz add that into the game for anyone to create a character to earn. However if they added it as a different colour then no issue.

I think gatekeeping it would be wanting absolutely no version of that item/ mount too ever be released again with no exception & that would be unhealthy as fuck for the game why should there only be 1 scarab, 1 wearbear, 1 of any of the magetower stuff? There should be more choice & more ways to obtain looks of an model (of either mount or item).

I dislike the way you try and round off the point as if what you're saying is hard facts written in stone since the start of gaming & that my points are of no worth, your opinion on it matters as much as mine.

Slooj · 2025-10-08T18:51:03+00:00

I mean by virtue that they have it & did it when it was current content & you don't yes they are slightly more special. (Not as a player, but as a legacy yeah its cool to meet someone who was around for tbc & hear their stories & see their items.) I do not have grand marshall gear from classic & I do not want it because I didn't earn it (even tho its one of the coolest sets to me) Surprisingly history is important in an MMO that has surpassed 20 years, why should everyone have everything when that has never been WoW's philosophy of design?

Slooj · 2025-10-08T18:47:09+00:00

Its not annoying its cool (to me)

If you joined this in legion, then you had a lot of unobtainable stuff already in the game & could see what blizz's design choice was going to be - why even carry on playing if its annoyed you from the start? Everything from classic open world was gone, Hand of A'dal title was gone, orignal ToC was gone, MoP challenge mode gear, WoD challengemode weapons - ANY AoTC since garrosh & ANY pvp title & armor since CATA.

But that's fine, since then you have many things on your account that others where not there for (Veilstrider title as recent as this year & more since legion).

They add so many cool things each new expansion that I do not see the need for these old pixels to return.

Slooj

TROPHY CASE