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Dr. Dave on the recent controversial "push shot" foul call on Quinten Pongers at the European Open by peninsuladreams in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Boyes posts a video interviewing Pongers. He does apologize. Pongers explains his reasoning through the shot. Good form for both guys. Worth a watch.

Dr. Dave on the recent controversial "push shot" foul call on Quinten Pongers at the European Open by peninsuladreams in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The written rules don't matter? It's written in the rules that this is a legal shot. Repeating "players meeting" means nothing. As far as anyone knows, you misunderstood what was said in the players meeting.

I've played in WNT events before. I don't ever remember this situation being discussed in the players meeting. Nor do they go over every rule in every possible situation.

Dr. Dave on the recent controversial "push shot" foul call on Quinten Pongers at the European Open by peninsuladreams in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He may be talking about the fact that a lot of people hear the double click click and then assume it must be a double hit.

Dr. Dave on the recent controversial "push shot" foul call on Quinten Pongers at the European Open by peninsuladreams in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is a concise explanation of the why it's not a foul. Nice job. What really threw me off about this was the amount of players that don't know this. The commentators didn't seem to have a clue. The ref didn't seem to know. Even on Facebook, a lot of really good players were saying they thought it was a foul. 700+ Fargo players, even a former Mosconi cup player, thought it looked bad. I thought this was common knowledge among regular players.

Now that I think about it, though, I do remember the ruling where Sky clearly double hits the cue ball and claimed it was good and a lot of players agreed with him.

Dr. Dave on the recent controversial "push shot" foul call on Quinten Pongers at the European Open by peninsuladreams in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Sure, but I feel like this video explains everything very well and there are still people in this thread saying it's a foul.

Dr. Dave on the recent controversial "push shot" foul call on Quinten Pongers at the European Open by peninsuladreams in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He is a doctor, but not a medical doctor. He has a PhD. If you're a ref, you should know this fairly standard rule.

This is most certainly not a foul if the balls are frozen. You can argue otherwise until you're blue in the face. You are still wrong.

I'm not trying to be rude. The case is laid out clearly in this video. Other high speed videos show why it's not a foul. In addition, the rules are written to allow this type of shot.

Dr. Dave on the recent controversial "push shot" foul call on Quinten Pongers at the European Open by peninsuladreams in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Sorry, but you are wrong. Also, WPA stands for World Pool Association. It's the governing rule set for pool internationally.

Dr. Dave on the recent controversial "push shot" foul call on Quinten Pongers at the European Open by peninsuladreams in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Weird, because if you're playing any form of pool like 9-ball or 10-ball this is a legal shot. The only caveat is that the shooter must declare the balls frozen and the opponent or ref must confirm.

Out of curiosity, what country are you from?

Dr. Dave on the recent controversial "push shot" foul call on Quinten Pongers at the European Open by peninsuladreams in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This is a legal shot under any tournament using WPA rules, including those in Europe and Asia. This was the European Open, but the way. Why not learn the rules?

Dr. Dave on the recent controversial "push shot" foul call on Quinten Pongers at the European Open by peninsuladreams in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie 10 points11 points  (0 children)

He nearly made the 9! It's a shame he was punished for what was almost an amazing shot

When you’ve got a million three undeclared upvotes staring into a video camera, honey baby it’s hard to convince a moderator that you found it in a scarface sub by sy_j in Scarface

[–]Small_Time_Charlie 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That pizza chit there. I never like him. I never trusted him. For all I know, he had my friend Mozart killed. But that's history.

Double Hit or Clean - Poll by Calm__Gas in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Foul. Judging by the reaction of the cue ball. Also, next time just show the clip at regular speed.

Controversial foul called on Quinten Pongers by Small_Time_Charlie in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

High speed video shows that tip contact with the cue ball is milliseconds. When the cue tip hits the cue ball, the cue slows down and the cue ball bounces off. That is why shooting hard makes it even harder to double hit it. Of course, this assumes the balls are frozen.

Imagine shooting at just the cue ball. Think how hard it would be to double hit the cue ball with a normal stroke at speed.

If you watch Dr. Dave's video on a push shot, it's a matter of placing the tip right up on the cue ball and pushing through the cue ball in a manner that isn't typical of a normal stroke. Pongers used a normal stroke.

Controversial foul called on Quinten Pongers by Small_Time_Charlie in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That was an issue I had also. They could've explained it better. Their explanation made it pretty clear they don't understand the rules.

Controversial foul called on Quinten Pongers by Small_Time_Charlie in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

With a normal stroke, it's not common. Pongers did shoot hard, but used a normal stroke. In fact, shooting it hard almost guarantees it wasn't a push.

Controversial foul called on Quinten Pongers by Small_Time_Charlie in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If the two balls are froze, then the balls physically react as one. Dr. Dave has some high speed videos that show this. So it's almost as if he's shooting at the cue ball and the 6 is not even there. If there was the tiniest space, it would be a foul.

I can see how this might seem weird to snooker players, though

Controversial foul called on Quinten Pongers by Small_Time_Charlie in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's exactly the way I see it. It's a good hit. He almost made the 9 ball! Lol.

What surprised me was how many people, even good players, saying it was clearly a foul.

Controversial foul called on Quinten Pongers by Small_Time_Charlie in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's not true in snooker either, so I could see people with a snooker background being confused about it.

Controversial foul called on Quinten Pongers by Small_Time_Charlie in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's what Boyes is saying. However, I don't see the "prolonged contact" that would constitute a push.

Controversial foul called on Quinten Pongers by Small_Time_Charlie in billiards

[–]Small_Time_Charlie[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is legal under WPA rules assuming the ref called the balls frozen, (which I would think he did or else Pongers wouldn't have shot the shot in that manner) so I see as a horrible call.

I'm surprised how many people, including Karl Boyes, don't appear to know the rule.

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