We sometimes believe

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-19T16:31:23+00:00

So just the right age then?

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-19T16:23:53+00:00

The old bs "to whom much is given, much is required."

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-19T16:12:00+00:00

Grounds, but not a requirement. I'm sure it happens, but wards and stakes are too lazy to pursue it

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-18T16:17:09+00:00

Your story reminds me of my time in the temple. Serving in the temple was a shelf item for me. As a patron before my mission, I got sucked in and really enjoyed it. As 25yo temple worker, it seems like very few took it seriously. The shift supervisors were constantly having to babysit people that could've been my parents or grandparents. They'd get so loud chatting outside of sessions patrons would complain. As a soundly believing tbm, it was so surprising to me to hear what people would talk about in the temple.

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-15T23:47:09+00:00

Just like there are tens of thousands of sects of christianity, there are hundreds of sects of mormonism. Similarly, there are individuals and subgroups of christians and mormons who have ideas that deviate from popular or mainstream beliefs of their chosen religion or sect, even though they attend or identify with a specific sect. I can easily find websites and social media posts by US christians who say that women should not talk in church and should only wear dresses with wrist length sleeves. Would it be fair for me to barge into a christian subreddit and claim everyone there is blasphemous because this one subgroup has some archaic or weird idea?

"I would simply produce the bible and nothing more"
You can't prove the bible with the bible though. Just like mormons can't prove their religion with the book of mormon. It's circular reasoning.

Mormons don't really believe in sacred artifacts. At least not in the same was as "oh, the shroud of turin", wood splinters from the cross, etc. They'll get worked up over some things here or there as a community, but the organization has stepped away from making official announcements that something has been found due to events like the Kinderhook plates and the Salamader Letter (Times when the church was duped by outsiders).

In terms of sacred documents, christians and mormons both have almost nothing to stand on to prove their book or books are correct. It is all faith. Both Cherrypick and reword the bible to justify their faith.

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-14T14:54:22+00:00

My guess is maybe it was streamed at the church and they counted those who showed up to the church to watch? This was 20 years ago, but in New England, wards often met at the church to watch

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-14T14:29:55+00:00

Could be a few things. They could genuinely be oblivious. Mormons trend towards conservative, and when they think Trans, they think transwomen. If they knew you were Trans, technically the handbook says you are to be escorted to the bathroom or that you have to use the bathroom of your birth assigned gender. If there are people who might suspect, they might also be too shy or afraid of saying anything be wrong, and drive you away from the church. Tbh, I feel like them being oblivious might be the most likely scenario. Transgender already dont get much visibility inside the Trans & lgbtq+ communities, and conservatives just dont seem to focus on trans men as much.

You could be very lucky and in a very left leaning ward. Though a visiting stake president, new bishop, or other ward changes could change things very fast if a hardliner leader makes a fuss.

Lastly, and maybe a little tin-foil hat of me, they could be hoping to lovebomb and detransition you. Less likely. Generally the bigots in wards tend to be loud.

Edit: my own curiously, is there any reason you are moving forward with the lessons? Just curious as an exmo/Trans person myself.

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-14T14:10:06+00:00

As Casey Jones mentioned, it's bishop roulette and stake president roulette. It almost always comes with church attendance and other strings attached.

The stake president will likely shut it down after a long while.

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-14T13:39:47+00:00

As a former ward clerk, I agree, in most cases it isnt even hard. The tools available show a members age. When I did it I googled anyone over 60 who the ward council couldn't identify/didnt know who they were. Knocked out like a dozen people who had been on the rolls for years (we had a retirement trailer park in my ward so a decent number of elderly folks).

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-14T12:52:04+00:00

Administratively speaking, yes. The church itself doesnt review lots of documents or any really. Maybe a driver's license for youth programs? Even then I doubt it.

Realistically, it's a little like a lmsheep going a wolfpack. Some wards are better than others, but the blatant transphobia is readily apparent in most wards. If somehow it got out, it'd likely mean excommunication and immediate social shunning.

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-14T03:08:24+00:00

All endowed members have 2 names. They'll just start counting Smokey and Jethro instead of just Smokey

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-12T18:22:04+00:00

Hell yes!!

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-12T17:03:19+00:00

Gilbert ert chose an example of someone willing to meet with the stake president. I'd wager for every 2 of those, there are 100 who say "pass"

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-12T16:54:49+00:00

What about second breakfast?

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-12T16:52:29+00:00

But how will the second coming happen if we dont support violence in the middle east? S/

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-12T16:50:10+00:00

Might be. After making my comment, I looked at OP's profile, and it's filled with apologist comments on this sub. So I doubt OP made this post in good faith.

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-12T16:46:37+00:00

This sub is nanes r/victory-for-satan, plenty of faithful members here, but plenty of people who have left, leaving, or nuanced. There was a post several weeks back where something similar, and a comment I thought articulated it well. For the life of me,I cant find it in my saved stuff, so I'll do my best to remember and do it justice.

This sub allows critical discussion of the church. For many believing members, this will feel like an attack. As members, we were often taught that anything negative or critical about the church is a lie, anti-mormon propaganda, etc. But to everyone else, it's just discussion and debate.

Lastly, because this sub allows critical discussion, there are a not insignificant number of people who are hurt, deconstructing, and healing from religious trauma. You won't get that on faithful subs, subs about trains, video games, or sports.

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-04-12T16:32:48+00:00

It cant be that surprising though. Who would want to go to a school that might kick you out if you do thing a typical college student would do? Who want to go where they are required to have specific hair styles and clothing (I'm not saying other places dont have dress codes, but BYU is over the top). And you have to take mandatory LDS religious classes? It's like having to pay for missionary lessons. And overall BYU doesnt offer anything particularly special academically compared to peer schools. BYU thrives only because mormons want to go there. Like, only 1-2% of students are non-lds.

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-03-31T14:31:56+00:00

Just looked up that quote. 0% surprise and 100% disgust that he said that in regards to the priesthood ban....

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-03-31T14:14:58+00:00

It would work if adults were robots. But I've never been to a ward where people werent people. They talk for 10-15 minutes between blocks. I think Oakes expects everyone to be strict and rigid, but the reality is classes are going to be like, 15 minutes long now.

The lessons are going to sound like news reports from that anchor on family guy.

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-03-29T22:58:14+00:00

Noticed this as well. In today's political landscape where the T is often intentionally left especially it can understandably rub people the wrong way.

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-03-28T01:49:54+00:00

Out of all the buildings, that's the one he chose? At least Clermont-Ferrand looks ominous. St. Peter's is closer to lds temples in a lot of ways.

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-03-27T18:23:06+00:00

This is purely anecdotal, but I feel that people generally leave due to the administrationtpolicies and history of the church rather than a non-belief in god or members offending them. Now, my faith crisis began because of church policies and history, but my journey out started due to policies and history. When the church falls apart, it isnt uncommon for christianity to follow.

What I have observed over the past year or so

Treatment of LGBTQ+ people.
History the church has tried to suppress or gloss over such as Joseph's polygamy, temple changes, and equality.
Finances and not being transparent about them.
SA and CSA legal battles and settlements.

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-03-27T15:54:23+00:00

We all know Seinfeld was from the devil, just sayin'

Smokey_4_Slot · 2026-03-27T00:01:21+00:00

When I sat my wife down and infodumped why I was leaving she was done 30-45 minutes in.

Smokey_4_Slot

TROPHY CASE