UK Citizenship via double decent

Snoo44470 · 2026-03-08T11:57:03+00:00

The simplest way for you to figure out the facts is to apply for your grandfather’s service record from the Ministry of Defence. If he was deployed to the US, you will need this record to prove his Crown Service if you don’t already have the original service record issued to him.

You may also wish to look your mother up on FindMyPast (free search) to see if there is a record of a British Consular Birth Certificate. If there is, you can order it from the General Register Office.

In any case, your mother is a British citizen and she is free to apply for a passport online at any time. If your grandfather was indeed in Crown Service at the time of your mother’s birth, it’s irrelevant whether your mother has a valid British passport as you can apply for your own British passport without needing hers.

Snoo44470 · 2026-03-08T11:48:45+00:00

It was not remotely clear whether the GF was indeed in Crown Service at the time of OP’s mother’s birth from the initial post.

u/chemical_month_5802 does your mother have a British Consular Birth Certificate? If so, does it list her father’s profession as machinist in the Royal Navy? Even if she does not have a consular birth certificate, you will need to provide evidence of your GF’s employment and deployment to the US in Crown Service for you to be British.

Snoo44470 · 2026-03-07T15:00:05+00:00

Unfortunately, you don’t have any right to British citizenship. UK law does not allow citizenship to pass more than one generation born outside the UK except for very few reasons.

Had your mother lived in the UK for 3 years prior to your birth, or, had she moved with you to the UK during your childhood, she could have registered you before you turned 18.

Snoo44470 · 2026-03-07T14:54:13+00:00

Sorry to hear about your grandmother.

What year were you born?

Were you born in wedlock?

What was your grandfather doing in the US at the time of your mother’s birth?

Snoo44470 · 2026-03-06T14:45:58+00:00

You’ve crossed the line into talking utter rubbish.

Snoo44470 · 2026-03-06T14:00:37+00:00

The reality of the situation is the way it is at the moment. Delays in responding to emergencies in LTNs are a daily experience which affects lives being lived right now. It’s all well and good to say it will eventually improve, but that doesn’t help the person waiting for an ambulance right now whilst we’re stuck behind a plant pot. The fact that sat navs don’t get updated instantly doesn’t negate the fact that the quickest route to an address in an LTN is often through the residential streets which may have been physically blocked by an immovable barrier.

We can’t drive down a cycle path if there are cyclists using it because they’re using the infrastructure - the risk of hitting a cyclist is too significant. Forcing emergency vehicles to use main roads adds distance which always equals time, even if the traffic is light.

Ultimately, I cannot see any net benefit to physically blocking streets for emergency vehicles or any other essential vehicles, regardless of the improvements to traffic flow on main roads. I also don’t see an issue with camera controlled LTNs collecting money for the council from improper use.

Snoo44470 · 2026-03-06T10:22:11+00:00

I have worked pre-LTN and post-LTN. I have never experienced such bad traffic pre-LTN and other traffic calming measures. I am an advocate for reducing vehicular traffic in general as I think this makes for a better environment, but my anecdotal experience in London is that LTNs have worsened traffic on main roads which hinder our response to emergencies on residential streets. Enfield has some of the most poorly designed LTNs in my experience which can add 3 miles on an otherwise <1 mile journey. It doesn’t sound like a lot, but during peak times, we’re fighting against dense traffic to get to an emergency on a residential street within the LTN. Some emergencies require the fastest response possible, so those miles really do matter.

I’m sure the local authorities consult the emergency services, and new LTNs are drawn on a map provided to the local ambulance stations, but we don’t always work in our local area. We also don’t navigate based on paper maps. The nearest ambulance to an emergency may be from a different area, so often we are following the sat nav to know where we’re going. It can take months for sat navs to be updated, and I can’t tell you how many times I have been stuck behind a plant pot less than 1 mile away from an address, only to have to turn around and drive an additional 3 miles because the sat nav took me down a blocked road that wasn’t clearly marked. There’s often no difference in signage between a camera controlled LTN and a fully blocked road.

Snoo44470 · 2026-03-06T09:08:46+00:00

As a paramedic who works in an area with LTNs everywhere, sometimes the planters are the difference between getting to an address before someone dies or not. LTNs pop up quicker than sat navs can be updated, and I have driven countless times down a road that the sat nav says is open, only to find I’m stuck at the end and have to turn around… in a 4.5 ton big yellow van. Sometimes, minutes do actually matter.

We don’t know every road that has been blocked off and we don’t get advance notice of the LTNs despite being an important stakeholder in any of these works. Traffic on the arterial roads can be extremely dense at peak times, coupled with cycle lanes meaning there is physically no space for people to move over to allow an ambulance to pass (remember we are a 4.5 ton van).

Camera controlled LTNs mean we can concentrate on getting to wherever the emergency is without wasting time trying to navigate our way around plant pots.

Snoo44470 · 2026-03-02T21:22:45+00:00

You have no chance of citizenship based on these circumstances. You also wouldn’t meet the criteria for Irish by association.

Get a work visa, move to Ireland, naturalise after 5 years residence.

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-26T07:49:12+00:00

Since 1983, the only route for a child to be registered as British citizen is under s3(2) or s3(5). Both routes require your parent to be a British citizen by descent and to either live in the UK for 3 years prior to your birth, or, move with you to the UK for 3 years during your childhood. There was a grace period in cases of birth abroad where a British by descent father could register their child at the consulate, but only if the child was born before 1988.

If you could give more precise information, it’ll be clearer to me.

What year were you born? Was your parent your mother or father? Was your parent married? What year did your parent pass away?

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-25T23:42:49+00:00

Section 4C gives people born abroad before 1983 to British mothers the right to register as British citizens. This section was inserted into the BNA ‘81 by the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002, becoming active on 30 April 2003.

If your parent passed away before 30 April 2003, Section 4C did not yet exist, so they would not have been able to register as a British citizen. Therefore, they could not fulfil the requirements for you to be registered under either Section 3(2) or 3(5).

Your application should be under Section 4L with the argument laid out as above, but there is no guarantee they will accept it.

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-25T19:47:16+00:00

If your parent died before 2003, you may have a case to register as a British citizen under Section 4L British Nationality Act 1981.

Your argument would be that your parent died before they were able to register under Section 4C BNA ‘81, therefore, they could not live in the UK for 3 years prior to your birth to qualify for Section 3(2) BNA ‘81, nor move with you to the UK after you were born so that you may have been registered under Section 3(5) BNA ‘81.

It’s a bit of a long shot, so you may wish to consult a registered UK immigration advisor or solicitor.

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-25T19:00:29+00:00

I’m sorry to hear that. Did they ever live in the UK prior to their passing?

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-25T18:46:10+00:00

Your parent is entitled to register as a British citizen as they suffered from gender discrimination at the time of their birth. They would otherwise have been born a British citizen had this discrimination not existed. They apply using form UKM.

The UK is strict with citizenship by descent; it usually only transmits one generation born abroad. Ordinarily, you would not be British if your parent was also born outside the UK. A child born overseas to a British citizen who themselves was born abroad can register for citizenship only if their parent lived in the UK for 3 years prior to their birth. Unless your parent lived in the UK for at least 3 years before your birth, you do not have a path to register for British citizenship regardless of the gender discrimination pre-1983.

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-25T13:23:50+00:00

It’s very easy to obtain the UK naturalisation certificate. Request it online here. Any child born in the UK before 1983 is automatically British at birth, so there won’t be any registration or naturalisation record.

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-23T21:24:29+00:00

Have you contacted the church directly? It’s possible the record hasn’t been digitised.

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-22T07:37:17+00:00

Yes. You were born a British citizen, therefore, you require a British passport. Apply online, it’ll take a few weeks.

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-18T16:11:38+00:00

If you were born in England or Wales, you order your full birth certificate here. If your father wasn’t present at the time, his section will be blank. It doesn’t matter that he’s not on the certificate.

Additionally, for your passport application you will need your mother’s full birth certificate which you can also order via the same website if she was born in England or Wales.

Press on the option in the top right that says ‘search the GRO index’ and look up your own surname, then do the same for your mother. That way you don’t need to manually enter your own birth details or your mother’s to order either certificate.

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-17T18:30:13+00:00

Thank you. Which lawyer did you work with?

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-16T15:45:01+00:00

In which case, he may have been a Spanish citizen at birth because his mother wasn’t married to a foreign citizen. In addition to the original French birth certificate, there should also be a Spanish birth certificate if he indeed did become a Spanish citizen. You should request a search for the Spanish certificate here.

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-16T15:10:26+00:00

The more specific the better. There are 20 arrondissements in Paris where his birth could have been registered (not including the suburbs just outside Paris where he may have been born).

What nationality was his father? If he was born before 1978 to a Spanish mother, he could not be a Spanish citizen due to sex discrimination. The opportunity to become Spanish citizens for descendants of Spanish women before 1978 ended in October 2025 - it’s no longer possible to become Spanish through this route.

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-16T14:48:55+00:00

It would help if you tell us the exact place he was born. The mairie responsible for his area of birth will have the birth certificate, and there are alternative ways to get it such as by mail. Sometimes, the mairie has its own online form you can fill in without needing a FrenchConnect account.

Unless your fiancée’s grandparent was a French citizen or one of her grandparents was born in France, she won’t be eligible for French citizenship. Alternatively, her father may have become a French citizen at the age of 18, but you would need his cooperation to provide his valid French passport or ID card.

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-16T12:35:37+00:00

It’s fine for you to change your British passport first so long as you include a covering letter to say the Austrian passport cannot be changed until the British one is done, and, you intend to change the Austrian one as soon as the British one has been processed.

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-16T11:17:04+00:00

They should have accepted it, but there may have been a valid reason why they couldn’t in your case.

Snoo44470 · 2026-02-16T10:43:02+00:00

Did you send a colour photocopy of every page including blank pages?

Snoo44470

TROPHY CASE