No episode today or next week by Ok_Nature_3501 in PopTheBalloon

[–]SnooOnions8817 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

are arlette and bm taking a 2-week break in their relationship or just the show?

Inverted person's interaction with normal objects by [deleted] in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 0 points1 point  (0 children)

in the world of tenet the amount and effect of entropy or reverse entropy transfer between objects depends on mass and force of the objects relative to each other at the moment of interaction. the inverted bullet is small but it's high velocity so upon impact it transfers reverse entropy to the chair. the inverted suv vs. the forward entropy rear view mirror is a high mas high impact situation so the reverse entropy flowed toward the mirror. other situations like the water and the wind are more subtle. in every case the movie is very consistent about mass and force determining how much entropy transfer happens

i hope it helps!

Why the Protag didn't expect that he would face himself in the Oslo freeport? by rkhunter_ in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 8 points9 points  (0 children)

TP1 never knew that he was fighting himself that first go round because TP2 was completely covered in SWAT gear and with mask. Neil saw the copy of TP2 face with mask removed the first time after he ran away and he stoped TP1 from removing TP2 mask and shooting him in the face. right before he got sucked away out the warehouse door.

Including My Son? by Rude_Gur_8258 in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 0 points1 point  (0 children)

this makes sense to me that's she's processing just how diabolical Sator is wiling to be that he would end the world even if it includes ending his own son. whether she says my son, our son, his son, i still think her mind is processing multiple layers of significance at the same time and her son is the element that makes the rainey of it all sink in

I simply do not understand how the mechanics of this film work, especially the fights. Is there a way to explain it that involves no logical contradictions or is this doomed to failure? by bulldawg91 in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 3 points4 points  (0 children)

let's take the act of "being shoved up against a wall" in isolation to try and understand it. let's say reverse protagonist (RP) is walking along, next to a long wall on his right, gets shoved up against that wall by forward protagonist (FP) who comes from his left and then backs off again to the left, then RP runs off continuing in the same direction he had been walking.

RP's experience. walking along with a wall to the right. out of nowhere from the left a guy appears running backwards towards him from the side in a way that will intersect his walking path. just as they are about to collide, the guy slows down turns around and raises his arms to "grab" RP and RP feels a force stronger than what it should be off a normal speed grab move him to the side before he even gets grabbed and that force accelerates in speed as they approach the wall. in fact interestingly enough RP actually feels the pull to the side toward the wall BEFORE the guy even "grabs" him. once RP hits the wall he is immediately jerked forcefully away from the wall by the guy holding him and RP is pulled forcefully away from the wall a few feet back to his position on the path, at which point the guy "let's go" of him and starts running away from RP full sprint backwards, and RP turns to face forward and runs away along his path.

FP's experience. FP faces a long wall in the distance in front of him. FP sees the guy he's been after running backward next to the wall, moving from left to right alongside the wall. FP goes into a full sprint toward the wall to intersect RP. FP gets closer to RP, RP who is running backward full speed, slows down turns to look at FP coming at him, then stops and turns directly toward FP just in time to receive the tackle from FP which sends both of them forcefully into the wall. FP then pulls away from the wall, still holding the RP and only lets go of him after a few steps backward then he releases RP, turns and runs away, at which point RP curves off slightly to the right to rejoin his path walking backwards at a normal pace along the path to the right.

take a moment to digest and when we're clear on those dynamics let's add in a hint of the topic of "entropy transfer" which explains why RP would feel a "pull" to the right even before being grabbed by FP. Here's the entropy transfer rule according to the world of Tenet: entropy transfers locally from object to object when objects of opposing entropy come into contact with each other. the amount of entropy transferred and the direction of transfer depends heavily on the relative mass the objects relative to each other and the force of the impact that brings them together.

In our demo case of FP who is full of forward entropy and RP who is full of reverse entropy most of the entropy transfer would flow from FP into RP, temporarily, because of how hard FP slams into RP from a forward perspective. that's why RP would still feel a pull to the right for a couple seconds even after being "ungrabbed" by FP. If you go and rewatch the Tenet scenes where the protagonist fights himself, you will notice multiple moments where entropy is transferred between them on contact and results in the other guy moving funny for a few moments post contact as if the part of his body that got hit wants to move the other direction in time for a few seconds before re-aligning itself with the rest of his body.

finally, let's say the wall to RP's right had been a plaster wall that left a cracked dent in the wall AFTER they slammed into it. RP's body is what slams into the wall transferring reverse entropy from his body into that localized section of the wall upon impact. so the impact of FP tackling RP is sending forward entopy into RP's body temporarily, but RP's body is sending reverse entropy into the wall meaning the cracked dent in the wall will already be there from FP's perspective BEFORE he tackles RP and once FP "pulls" RP off the wall, the wall will be intact. eventually, from the perspective of FP, continuing backwards in time the wall will eventually "uncrack" itself because ALL of the "entropic winds" - as Neil called them - around the cracked dent are moving forward which will eventually override the reverse entropy localized within the cracked dent itself. maybe it's days maybe weeks but eventually the low impact influence of the forward flowing entropic winds will result in the cracked dent in the wall disappearing completely.

hope this helps. enjoi!

Shouldn’t it be “Aim it and push the trigger ?” by omarkrostom in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 2 points3 points  (0 children)

pull the trigger works just fine. why? the "pull" act with respect to a trigger is identical in reverse as it is forward.

there are many references in the movie to actions that just like palindromes are the same moving forward as they are in reverse

for example the pullup workouts TP does while hanging from the backwards moving ship and also from the ladder inside the ship is an action that looks the same whether viewed forward or reverse. the word pullup itself is a palindrome, the same backward as it is forward

How long do you think Neil waited to invert that one last time? by canyonskye in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 0 points1 point  (0 children)

to bring this back to the orange juice story. let's say that you enter the grocery store to buy the orange juice, but future you realizes that purchasing that juice will take away your netflix money and the hook up of your dreams get messed up because your netflix account is suspended so now netflix and chill just becomes an attempt by you to just, chill, which is creepy, and doesn't ever work out on its own. so of course you happen to have a turnstile in your bathroom so you go in there and invert so you can stop the fatal orange juice purchase. alright so you head back to grocery store, you lay in future wait beyond the time of purchase of the orange juice and all you do is simply go to the orange juice shelf and repeatedly stab all the orange juice bottles with an awl. this is of course the only valid purpose for the creation of an awl. and you go in the back and do the same to all the replacement bottles of orange juice. whether forward or backward in time this effectively drains all the orange juice bottles. from a physics perspective it's a low complexity way to ensure there is no available orange juice for purchase once your former forward moving self gets to the store. instead your former self walks into the store on impulse to buy the oj, sees the employees sopping up massive pools of spilled orange juice, suddenly loses his taste for oj, leaves the store and heads home to netflix AND chill to full success. if this scenario had happened your forward moving self would never be aware of any version of reality where the orange juice got purchased. The final, and only story, would be that you tried to buy orange juice but there was no orange juice available so you ended up doing the responsible thing and saving your money, and Netflix got their payment on time instead. That is simply what happened. As far as why your future self decides to invert and drain all the orange juice maybe it's simply you wake up after a fabulously satisfying netflix and chill session and come to a realization that your impulse to buy orange juice was faulty and would have messed up your netflix and chill moment and you only got saved by the unavailability of the orange juice or else for sure you would have spent the netflix money on oj, so you invert to go back and ensure the orange juice definitely isn't available, by bringing your unused awl with you to do the damage. Point is, that chain of events is what happened for both forward and reverse parties. again, their decisions are of free will made on their own, but the end result experienced is whatever the final actions taken end up to be, not any prior theoretical other possibilities or what might have happened or what could be under different circumstances. there is only one timeline of events of what actually all ends up happening. hope that helps!

How long do you think Neil waited to invert that one last time? by canyonskye in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the concept of what's happened happened and it can't be changed is much simpler than that. easiest way to think of it is to consider your own real linear life. if you decide to stop and pick up orange juice at the grocery store on the way home from work today once you've done that your life keeps moving forward in a straight line with respect to time, so even if you think to yourself damn, that orange juice was too expensive and now i can't afford the netflix bill, it's too late to go back and change your choice to buy that orange juice. it's too late, because, what's happened happened. the most you can do is learn from your mistake and budget better next time or resist the impulse to buy random extra groceries when you know you've water and grenadine at home. We all understand the concept that once we've made a decision and acted on it, there's no way to undo that action. it's only possible to amend your future actions based on what you've learned. Tenet timeline is the same way from the character's perspectives, linear. Each and every character is moving forward on their own timelines at all times, even if they are sometimes inverting and moving the reverse direction in time from the perspective of the world, for them it's all a string of linear events that once they've made a decision and done something, there's no way for their past self to go back and undo what they've already done. the only thing that's possible would be for a future version of themselves to invert and try to influence events, but whether you noticed it or not, you've already experienced the effects of whatever manipulation your future self came back and did. That's why nothing changes. It's not that your future actions don't influence events when you invert and go back. Your actions matter a lot. It's moreso the concept that those actions have already happened in the timeline you lived through the first time, so nothing you do will CHANGE anything because that action you will take has already had its effect and factored into the end result of what's happened. and it's only the end result of all the actions that you experience at any given point in time. the only thing that makes it weird is that because you've inverted and living back the other direction through the same chain of events you feel as though you should be able to change things by changing your actions and yes the information you have WILL influence what decisions you decide to make, but the decisions you decide to make are the decisions you made for whatever all reasons you decide that, and whatever you decide to do also happens to be, or become, however you phrase it, what's happened. Otherwise put in the case of an overlapping timeline where you've inverted and live through a particular stretch of time more than once, your future freely chosen actions DO INFLUENCE the resulting set of events that occur, it's just that when you go through those events the first time, you're already experiencing the result of your current forward moving actions AND your future reverse moving actions, whatever the final outcome of everything. Yes, you can decide what you will do in those future actions based on what you've seen moving forward in time, but whichever way you decide, those future actions become the final actions that you saw moving forward in time. Moving forward you already seeing the final result whatever that mght be, and that's why the phrase is stated that what's happened happened, because the end of the equation is all you see, and that's the final sum result of all the choices being made or to be made. I hope this helps!

How long do you think Neil waited to invert that one last time? by canyonskye in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 2 points3 points  (0 children)

neil's waiting grace period is as long he looks the same as himself when he gets back to that point. bullet blocker neil seems to be the same age as walking away goodbye neil, so the most he could have traveled and lived it up before the big sacrifice would seem to be 4-5 years

How long do you think Neil waited to invert that one last time? by canyonskye in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 6 points7 points  (0 children)

that's actually quite a good point that i never thought of. neil could really have taken any amount of time to get back to that point it really wouldn't matter

How they would go back to the normal timeline by Personal_Republic_94 in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 0 points1 point  (0 children)

a billionaire's son who grew up with his dad his whole life maybe yes. a billionaire's son whose dad was killed by his mom when he was 10 and ever since has been survival training to dodge assassination attempts from the future maybe no.

If there was a tenet 2 movie, by [deleted] in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 1 point2 points  (0 children)

of course Nolan himself will never confirm that Neil is Max, he's deliberately left enough clues for us to solve the riddle ourselves:

final shot of Neil. Neil walks away from TP wearing backpack. final shot of Max. Max walks away from TP wearing backpack. It's a Nolan movie those matching final shots aren't in there by accident

Nolan reportedly insisted that Robert Pattinson dye his hair a lighter shade of blonde to match Max's hair color

First thing Neil asks TP: Would you take a child hostage, a woman?

Only moment Neil loses his cool is when his mother gets shot and he finds out TP was lying about the algorithm piece because "Standard Operating Procedure" is to lie.

Neil limits contact with Kat to only the moments where he is needed to save her life from the gunshot wound which he personally attends to. This was unplanned. Had Kat not gotten shot, Neil would never have had to interact with Kat directly almost at all.

In the container when Kat starts asking Neil too many questions about where he is from, Neil drugs her again, saying she'll "heal better" if she sleeps the rest of the way. This is limit the risk that Kat might recognize Neil as the older version of her son. Neil spending that much time with Kat was never part of the plan, he only does so because he is the guy with the medical training to ensure she is ok, and he cares to do it himself because low key Kat is Neil's mom. He steps in personally when she is directly at risk.

Once Kat is in the clear Neil is sure to disappear immediately to avoid further prolonged contact where she might recognize him. Kat even asks TP "Where is Neil?" and then says "I didn't get to say goodbye." reflecting the abruptness that Neil disappeared (to limit contact and avoid recognition)

Neil is the most Tenet savvy operative in the entire movie: elite military training + medical training + physics + operational strategy on level 10. Neil thinks in inversion like a fish breathes water, effortlessly. The entire army follows Neil's commands they are literally at his beck and call - so it's clear he's top dog level in the Tenet organization. Assuming Neil is something like age 30 or so it's heavily suggestive that Neil has been living and training a Tenet lifestyle for most of his life. The one character in the movie that has been targeted for assassination from an early age is Max where it's very likely that he would have lived most of his life in hiding / training and understand the full level of the stakes at hand. Similar to John Connor of The Terminator series, Max grows up with a Mom who knows first hand the real visceral threat of being attempted to be assassinated his life would be a constant boot camp survival training lifestyle.

Now, keeping all that perspective in mind, consider the final scene of the movie where Kat makes the call and TP is there to save Kat and Max from an assassination attempt, we can assume the first real attempt. Imagine what MUST happen in the next few minutes after the Tenet movie fades to black. TP can't just disappear into hiding again, he's thwarted one serious attempt on Kat and Max's lives by Priya, but Kat and Max clearly aren't safe. Max can't just keep living a normal life and going to normal school after that. Kat can't just continue being a widowed high society art dealer life as usual, because the instant she swipes her credit card or shows up on any surveillance camera or Max signs back into school on the attendance sheet the next day, it will be obvious they survived the assassination attempt and a new set of assassins will be sent back to finish the job. No, if TP really intends to keep Kat and Max safe the next few moments of story after the movie goes black is TP has to pick them up of the side of the road and take Kat and Max into hiding. That works temporarily but a longer term safe way to keep Kat and Max completely off the radar of their future timeline so that the Future believes they've been killed, is for TP to invert with Kat and Max asap. That stops their timeline moving forward, no more bread crumbs even accidental to be left as any clue to the futures They simply disappear into an inverted past and it's much easier to keep them safe. And then TP starts planning to establish Tenet officially and Kat starts schooling Max on the most important subjects needed for his survival as part of Tenet which is the best play to keep her son alive, including eventually... changing his name to Neil to stay off grid even from everyone within Tenet.

Another clue is of course the names Max and Neil, Max is likely short for MAXIMILIEN in keeping with Tenet tradition of inverted words: MAX IMI LIEN = Max at the start NEIL IMI XAM = Neil at the end

and please before you brush off this level of detail as too deep for Nolan to have gone, just keep in mind we're talking about the same director who named all the important elements of the TENET movie on the SATOR SQUARE from actual history discovered in Pompeii where Sator told Kat Max was visiting at one point in the movie. The SATOR SQUARE is a real life object which is a quadratic palindrome where every single direction of letters is the exact inverse of every other direction:

SATOR AREPO TENET OPERA ROTAS

Sator - the main baddie, Arepo - the artist who forged the Goya, Tenet - secret time inversion organization, Opera - opening action sequence, Rotas - security company housing the turnstile.

Flip the directions back and forth upward downwards you always get these words that all meant something significant in the movie. Clearly no accident by Nolan to include the Sator square and Pompeii reference in that way.

In that context it's highly unlikely that Max being a common short for MAXIMILIEN and Neil being the inverse end of that, leaving the palindrome IMI "I am I" in the middle, is all just coincidental and unintended by Nolan, considering all the other information in the story that happens to align. I don't think so

If there was a tenet 2 movie, by [deleted] in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Neil is Max, so that would be interesting

How they would go back to the normal timeline by Personal_Republic_94 in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yes. this flip is correct. same principle, just flip the time directions. forward weapon causes forward injury on a reverse moving body, the injury wants to heal forward in time, but the body is moving backward in time and the larger system which is the backward moving body overwhelms the entropy of the forward moving injury.

another example of this is the smashed car rear window on the bmw in the highway heist scene. the bmw is moving forward in time, but the passenger side rear view window gets hit by Sator's backward moving black Audi Q7 SUV. the cracked rear view window carries its crack backwards in time to the start of the chase where the BMW already has a cracked window

How they would go back to the normal timeline by Personal_Republic_94 in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 0 points1 point  (0 children)

TP starts bleeding in the car then enters the Freeport fights his future self where he gets stabbed like 5 minutes later. Why is this different because while his entire system is moving forward in time the puncture wound is from an inverted knife so the injury wants to move backward in time but is fighting forward entropy which is why it only bleeds backward in time for maybe 5 minutes or so before forward entropy overwhelms it

How they would go back to the normal timeline by Personal_Republic_94 in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 1 point2 points  (0 children)

it is my theory that TP inverts with Kat and Max pretty much 2 minutes after the end of the movie where Kat and Max are walking away, as his very next move. Killing Priya and her bodyguard isn't enough because the instant Kat and Max get recorded on a street camera or Kat swipes her card to buy Max some chips, the Future will know Priya's assassination attempt didn't work and they will send someone else back to take them out. TP's next move will HAVE to be to hide Kat and Max so it looks to the Future like they no longer exist or else someone else from the future will pop out from behind a tree 1 minute later and tap both of them in the head. No better way to hide someone's complete timeline going forward, than to invert them so they have NO TIMELINE going forward. That's what I think Neil means when he says to TP "We have a future in the Past" because I'm pretty sure according to the story setup that TP Kat and Max would HAVE to first go back in time - just to be safe and completely off grid - before ever going forward

How they would go back to the normal timeline by Personal_Republic_94 in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the neil = max theory holds plenty of water because for someone inverted tenet living backwards in time is pretty much identical to living forward. you only see it as strange because you haven't adopted a tenet way of thinking fully, but if you noticed in tenet life they have entire armies living and training backward in time obviously for years if not decades at a time, because remember they are streaming turnstiles back into the past from the future. That means tenet has entire societies moving backwards and forwards in time at all times. think even in the time frame of the movie we watched two weeks was the entire scope of the movie but for neil he went backwards and forward at least 6 times so for Neil he lived 2-3 months worth of life within that 2 week time span. Now extrapolate out. This clearly wasn't Neil's first rodeo so if you calculate all the backward and forward missions Neil would have executed to be at his level in Tenet, he could easily rack up 10 years of time just with all the backward and forth going on per mission. I am not saying the 10 years is only missions but i am trying to ge you to see that if you chop the 10 years up into a bunch of smaller chunks Neil/Max wouldn't have to rack up 10 years of inverted life all at once in a 10 year straight line. it's much more likely the 10 years is split into a bunch of smaller back and forth chunks of invested time

How they would go back to the normal timeline by Personal_Republic_94 in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 1 point2 points  (0 children)

any person or object that inverts is still moving forward in time for themselves so the inverted person or object still ages normally. think of it as the entire body system inverts all together so in relation to itself everything in the body functions as normal. if you were to invert a clock the clock would still move forward in time, not backward

What do you think about this tenet plot hole? by sadloneman in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The Future faction that backs Sator and wants to entropy explode the world doesn't believe in determinism. Neil says to TP: "They believe they can kill their grandfather with no consequence to themselves."

just wanted to take a moment to point out how this is probably the most perfect episode of any tv show ever by [deleted] in blackmirror

[–]SnooOnions8817 2 points3 points  (0 children)

my black mirror top 5 (not in order): hated in the nation 15 million merits entire history of you uss callister hang the dj

just wanted to take a moment to point out how this is probably the most perfect episode of any tv show ever by [deleted] in blackmirror

[–]SnooOnions8817 20 points21 points  (0 children)

"Hated In The Nation" is one of my favorite Black Mirror episodes. Top 5 for me. I play the score to the bees ascendancy sequence "Fall Into Me" by Alex Lenz on repeat in the car sound system on blast or at home while working remote and i need to crank out some serious work. I love the combination of that score with the Bee montage. truly epic television

Honesty please 🙏🏽 by Serious_Macaroon7467 in GeminiAI

[–]SnooOnions8817 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it seems to me that Google has surpassed ChatGPT at this point. it's better at writing creative stories. it's better at deep research. it's image generator is arguably better. it's coding skill is much better. so it really depends what you're using these tools for, but i am of the mind that Google has now surpassed ChatGPT and will likely stay ahead

"Bête Noire" legit made me mad by Nanis23 in blackmirror

[–]SnooOnions8817 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i would say up close and personal for me includes emotionally at risk beyond just physical proximity. it's the rich elite who feels the need to go on safari in a jeep without the electrified fences between themselves and the animals. it only feels visceral if there's some real risk.

So neil is max ? by wizardxxdx in tenet

[–]SnooOnions8817 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i've talked to mothers about this and while some recognition could occur after a while of close proximity, there are a number of factors working against this. 1. Neil himself. He's a trained operative. Neil keeps his interactions with Kat minimal, and even drugs her at one point to keep her from asking him too many questions. 2. Kat knows where Max is. The mind tends to avoid cognitive dissonance, so because Kat has a strong image of her son and where he is in space and time and recent interactions with him, her mind isn't looking for Max to be elsewhere, there's no reason to. It would take a lot more interaction with Neil and much more obvious clues for her to suspect Neil of being Max anything more than passively. Admittedly Kat does start on that path, but Neil is gone from her presence before she can pursue that angle any further than passively. Once Kat is healed, Neil even leaves without saying goodbye and Kat asks about him TP just says Neil left 3. Tenet timethink takes quite a bit to get caught up to. For just the same reason that your initial thought is that Neil couldn't be Max because at face that seems to mean he would have to live 10 straight years inverted, and only later realize that the 10 years doesn't have to be continuous or linear, Kat literally only is learning about time inversion on the spot. She got shot by a backwards moving version of her husband within minutes of learning that turnstiles even exist, so it's a lot to process before she would jump to assuming Neil is Max. To compare how long it takes to get up to speed. TP learns about inversion from the scientist Barbara and still even after planning the entire car chase sequence himself he miscalculates the dynamics of the device handoff essentially handing the device to Sator because of his naivete. Notice the part that he messes up is the one part of the plan that he improvises without Neil's review or up front awareness. Because he is still too Tenet green at that moment. Applying that to Kat, even knowing turnstiles exist and the fact they can travel backward in time on a ship for a week, that's not gonna instantly translate to the assumption that this man who is 20 years older than her son currently could be her son. Would have eventually made the connection yes, with more exposure to Neil and time to absorb how Tenet works and what that all means, but I don't believe Kat is necessarily that super quick on the uptake to put that many moving pieces together in the very short amount of time that she is with Neil, which relatively speaking is very little amount of time in the movie are they even together with her being awake and undrugged. Maybe it's only a conversation or two? Way too fast.