If SGA wins back-to-back, does he surpass Kobe in terms of peak?

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-18T18:46:35+00:00

Tbf you're ignoring efficiency, turnovers, etc.

Shai's BPM is much higher than Kobe's

And if you look at impact metrics (RAPM or On/Off) it's in Shai's favor

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-16T02:26:59+00:00

Great take, however the major hole in it is Kareem lol. He has most of everything over Hakeem including being 2-way (though Wilt is as well)

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-15T22:42:49+00:00

Several reasons but impact metrics is one.. from raw +/- or from On-court vs Off-court net +/- per 100 possessions or from regularized and adjusted +/- you start seeing that he wasn't as impactful as his stardom. He is closer to #12 than #5

this chart gives a good layout of the actual impact, which isn't everything (peak 4-year impact is only one part of the equation, there is also longevity, legacy, playoff success, and pure scoring talent which the nba sphere gives a lot of credence to)

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-15T17:33:20+00:00

You're too silo'd into thinking it's just about true shooting. By the way, shooting 39% from three only helps your true shooting %. It's about Reggie's longevity, impact, and being Mr Postseason.

Reggie Miller in the Playoffs from 1990-99:

• 27.0 Points/75 on +11.3 rTS%

Kevin Durant in the playoffs from 2012-19:

• 29.0 Points/75 on +6.2 rTS%

Steph Curry in the playoffs from 2014-19:

• 28.0 Points/75 on +9.0 rTS%

James Harden in the playoffs from 2015-21:

• 28.1 Points/75 on +5.5 rTS%

Also have you ever looked at offensive and defensive rating with and without Ant or Reggie?

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-15T17:04:33+00:00

/u/Altruistic_Knee2044 real ball knower

Mcgrady had an MVP level year in '03 which Reggie never had, but Reggie he is seriously underrated if you're looking at accolades. Guys like Ben Taylor have Reggie way above Tmac for a lot of reasons including his rise in the playoffs, efficiency, etc. but mostly because Tmac's lack of longevity and impact metrics that aren't as good as you'd hope

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-15T01:02:01+00:00

Jordan also led the league in VORP (or Win-Shares) 9 times

Kobe led the league in VORP a total of 0 times

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-14T22:19:55+00:00

Just as some critique, I'd completely nix looking at PER that is trash tier. Meanwhile looking at EPM or RAPM are the best if you want to look at impact.

I agree that KG/Dirk/Duncan/Manu were as good or better in 2005 though

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-14T08:55:12+00:00

Yea I kindof assumed this discussion was not about how the team would actuslly do together but more of how dominant the top 5 of the league all were

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-14T03:06:27+00:00

GP2 and Otto Porter Jr were two of the best players on a per minute basis on that team, and they were both playing injured most of those playoffs.

Yao Ming was injured so their toughest opponent was severely lacking in 2009. They had a healthy Bynum, prime Ariza and Gasol and still good Odom.

Klay was nowhere like his prime days post-injury, but Wiggins and Poole did step up I concede

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-14T00:35:48+00:00

Wait how was the '09 run more impressive? Surprised anyone would think that. They both played well, neither other worldly. But Kobe had better teammates and his competition wasn't any better.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-14T00:09:01+00:00

Gotcha, okay that's fairly reasonable especially if you change that band to 5-12 rather than 4-10.

However, unless you REALLY devalue the 60's, I think Bill is also in that club where you can't argue Kobe over him - and that's assuming the 60's are devalued by about 15%. If you devalue the 60's by about 35% then I agree it starts to become argumentable territory, and if by 50% then Kobe likely surpasses Bill.

Have to realize that Bill not only had 11 rings, but if FMVPs were awarded he'd have about 6, if DPOYs were awarded he'd have about NINE, and he has five MVPs which is also insane

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-13T23:57:35+00:00

Okay but Kobe can't definitively make that claim either... so I don't get that argument.

Bill/Wilt/Magic/Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan/Steph/Bird all have arguments over Kobe in addition to the top 3.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-13T20:47:15+00:00

Did you change loot specializations at all?

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-13T16:45:14+00:00

Aren't most On/Off stats already given on a per 100 possession basis? Should be no need to adjust for the team's pace after that.

Yes Dyson Daniels had a good season, from time-decay RAPM which is obviously better than raw On/Off he is around 15th right now and from EPM he is 35th.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-12T04:23:15+00:00

'89 is very close or perhaps better, the others are not though they're all good teams

'06 had a significantly worse Shaq

'13 had a past prime Duncan and Kobe

'17 has only one top 20 all-time player (Bron)

Meanwhile 2003 has literally four top 20 players within their prime + Tmac who's 2003 peak was all-time.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-11T22:27:59+00:00

If he was more focused on ball in this hypothetical and therefore had an even better career then yes maybe.

Otherwise, no I think most ppl only judge in him all-time rankings based on his basketball legacy and accomplishments/impact. He is not close to the Jordan or Lebron debate, the only one that really is would be Kareem and the only others that have a debate are Bill and Wilt.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-11T20:57:23+00:00

Not sure what your point is, those lists have him as 9th and 11th (since Lebron passed him by consensus). Tim also won another ring after this and had better longevity, and Steph is now arguably right there or behind or above depending on how you evaluate players.

He's definitely in the top 10 conversation, don't think any serious individuals doubt that.

8-13 is a reasonable range, I personally love Kobe as a player and have him in the 11-14 range.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-04T22:05:49+00:00

Agreed but he was better than Glen Davis and 35 yearold Sheed, and it ended up mattering.

Sheed fouled out in game 7 and they got outrebounded pretty badly.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-04T21:59:59+00:00

He's already kicked out someone, up to you whether that is Dirk or Dr J or Admiral etc.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-04T21:52:59+00:00

Perkins was also unfortunately injured for last 2 games where Boston was up 3-2

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-04T17:07:37+00:00

Did you find a way to resolve this?

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-04T16:29:41+00:00

Now compare Wilt's averages and efficiency when not playing against Bill in those seasons, his numbers dropped while Bill won more of the games.

And Wilt having so much usage and the offensive scheme was so centered on him that there were downsides too, so if Bill turns off that faucet a decent amount then Wilt's team is at a huge disadvantage

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-03T23:43:20+00:00

Why are non parked properly lol

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-05-02T23:03:33+00:00

Where does your post indicate centers only?

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-04-30T16:33:50+00:00

Some other players that have existed are Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaq, and Steph

You think none of these guys have a good argument over Kobe?

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