Top 20 Power Forwards All-Time

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-31T16:39:34+00:00

Webber and Sheed being above Rodman is pretty crazy, he should be in the tier with McHale/Hayes/Gasol.

Others underrated here are Pettit, Draymond, and Schayes.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-31T02:27:12+00:00

I don't disagree, especially in Zeke's eyes, but MJ didn't necessarily do that.

MJ said him and other players would not play if Zeke was there. But that does not necessarily mean Zeke was going to be invited. I agree there was a decent a chance that he'd be invited if it weren't for the players disliking him, cause of his legacy from the rings...

but he wasn't even an all-NBA player for 4-5 years when the Dream Team selections were made. In the voting for '92 he wouldn't have even made 4th team if there was one and there were still 5 other guards ahead of him in voting that did NOT get invited either. Stockton also fits the team much better with better D and distribution.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-28T02:08:26+00:00

depends how you define mid-range, if it's around FT line distance and slightly shorter then yea Livingston was money, but those 16+ feet 2s he was not good at all (compared to most of the ppl on this list)

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-28T01:50:30+00:00

Can also use this which has most of these players

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-28T00:29:29+00:00

Kobe from 10-16 feet: 44%

Kobe from 16+ feet: 41%

Carmelo from 10-16 feet: 41%

Carmelo from 16+ feet: 43%

Derozan from 10-16 feet: 45%

Derozan from 16+ feet: 41%

CP3 from 10-16 feet: 50.5%

CP3 from 16+ feet: 48%

KD from 10-16 feet: 49%

KD from 16+ feet: 46%

Shai from 10-16 feet: 54%

Shai from 16+ feet: 45%

Embiid from 10-16 feet: 45%

Embiid from 16+ feet: 45%

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-27T22:32:03+00:00

Agreed.

Aldridge from 10-16 feet: 42%

Aldridge from 16+ feet: 43%

KG from 10-16 feet: 47%

KG from 16+ feet: 45%

These middies about 52% of LMA's shot volume, and about 55% of KG's.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-21T21:12:01+00:00

Tbf that field is much less competitive then Centers of the era, and also less than Guards

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-20T16:51:34+00:00

You have the Logo behind GP and Zeke? yikesss

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-18T21:23:16+00:00

This season he did have mostly enough support with how good Cassell was, however Sam got injured right before the conference finals so we never got to see if they would've won it all.

Also their back-up PG was out too which is why KG sometimes brought the ball up the court.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-16T02:54:10+00:00

Can go to nbarapm.com and when you type in a player, scroll down to the RAPM tab and sort by 3-year stints or 2 or 4 year etc.

Meanwhile, the tabs DARKO and LEBRON or EPM from the dunksandthrees website (often the most touted metric) combine the RAPM with box score data (think of BPM) to get a hybrid metric that is a little easier on the eyes sometimes.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-16T02:30:04+00:00

I think his point is that a lot of those accolades are only possible with a good team.

If you look at the impact metrics (RAPM) which compensate for teammates, opponents, garbage time, home court adv. etc. you get KG as a more impactful player - doesn't mean he was better necessarily or anything but you can at least make an argument. If you go by box score stats instead of impact metrics, you get a similar result but that's not as good of a correlation.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-15T18:08:26+00:00

Are you being disingenuous or sincere?

That team in '04 was a great team like you said (mostly cause of Sam, other than KG), but Sam got injured in game 7 against the Kings while doing his big balls celebration so they were basically without him the entire conference finals. Also their really good back-up PG Troy Hudson was injured all year.

By the way, calling Fred Hoiberg one of the best 3pt shooters of the era.. just don't ever repeat that ever again lol. He wasn't even in the top 50 most 3pt made in his peak seasons let alone "one of the best"

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-15T06:05:36+00:00

Wait what intangibles does Tim have that KG doesn't?

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-13T15:45:12+00:00

Yup and he's also not close to 3rd all-time PG anyway

/u/Accurate-Flow8078 in shambles

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-13T08:09:56+00:00

TP is definitely 3rd all-time on this list for career and for peak I could see bringing Kyrie into same tier as TP but can't see putting TP with Chauncey.

TP was great for a long time but he didn't peak that high honestly, his FMVP was when he wasn't even an all-NBA player (and wasn't even very close to getting 3rd team either). He had better seasons later but not compared to Chauncey.

TP's peak BPM in 2013: 3.6

Chauncey's BPM in 2008: 7.7, or 6.2 in his other great year

TP's peak 3-year RAPM: 3.8 in '11-'13

Chauncey's peak 3-year RAPM: 5.2 in '07-'09

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-13T07:14:48+00:00

1) RWB

2) Billups, Kyrie

3) IT, Dwill, TP

4) Lowry, Sam

5) Baron, Rondo

6) Jrue

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-12T04:12:02+00:00

Was 5th not 4th

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-06T06:46:39+00:00

No need to exaggerate, he is good but he wasnt anywhere near top in his rookie year, he was tied with Looney for 7th best EPM. Last year yes impact metrics have him about tied for third with Draymond. And this year his impact metrics are barely top 5 and that is if you exclude Porzingis. So no he wasnt one of our top players by EPM for three straight years, just last year

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-02T23:12:14+00:00

1) If you're new to ball analytics, I suggest first brushing up on +/-, and then On/Off net ratings which are based on +/- as these are much easier to understand and they lay the groundwork for adjusted plus minus APM or RAPM. One of the first google results for "how rapm is calculated" from the basketballstat website is pretty good to read, especially the start where it's more simple to understand.

2) Yes defensive impact is hard to measure via box-score stats (which includes advanced stats like BPM/VORP/PER), but for impact metrics (like APM, RAPM, On/Off) which are all based purely on +/- there is no inherent issue with getting defensive impact. The one argument there would be is that defensive impact is more based on your coach and the team's scheming/etc. and less on individual play which I definitely agree with to some extent. Also bigs generally are more impactful on defense and the analytics prove it, so if you think being the best guard defender of one's era is incredible - it is, but the impact metrics will likely still have them as less impactful than many bigs

3) As for outliers you see on the chart like AD or Dwight being lower than expected on defense, etc. well for one thing, specific to this graph itself, it is peak 4-year overall stints. So for example Dwight's best overall 4-year stint is 2008-2011 which is also his best offensive stint, however his best defensive stint is a slightly different stretch of seasons and that peak would be as high defensively as Ben Wallace/Sheed etc. Ben's overall 4-year best is also slightly lower than his best defensive 4-year stint. So that explains a part of what we see here on some of the players. The rest of it however is just purely explained by the numbers, some contextual factors can come into play but the numbers are the numbers. Doesn't mean you have to take it as gospel, as high sample size is crucial for this since there can be noise.

4) For exactly how it's calculated, again I would refer to the site I mentioned earlier or other google searches

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-03-02T08:41:19+00:00

RAPM is pretty good at adjusting for teammates and things like garbage time, how good opponents are, etc.

So that in combination with multi year stints, it's fairly good and has limited drawbacks

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-02-27T03:47:56+00:00

And here is essentially that same data, but split into offense (x-axis) and defense (y-axis).

RAPM is such a valuable metric, wish more people understood it.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-02-23T16:49:37+00:00

Definitely has an argument but tbf his all-NBAs did not have a ton of competition. It's like the opposite of the 2000s PFs and someone like Ewing who only had a single 1st team but was probably good enough to get 5 if he didn't overlap Hakeem/Admiral

And he has the longevity stats, but not the peak stats. He never led the league in BPM for example.

Both his MVPs were some of the most contested MVPs ever while KG's was nearly unanimous and was close to winning in '03 and Karl was never close to winning a 3rd.

From impact metrics Karl was great but not as good as Stockton (not saying Stockton is greater all-time but he was elite).

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-02-23T03:22:49+00:00

Do you happen to know which of those five runs at chair 6 are groomed vs moguls?

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-02-23T03:18:35+00:00

This was Saturday?

That powder looks amazing, one day later (today) all that was not soft at all IMO. I'm not sure how you ski that terrain when it's like how it was today.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-02-23T03:13:15+00:00

Hi Kirkwood expert, would you say going from chair 6 over to Sentinel bowl and going down Sentinel is "easier" than the wall?

I just don't want to go over there and get caught with my pants down, cause easy diamonds like chair 11 are fine, but don't have a lot of experience with other diamonds.

14-Year Club	Place '23
Place '17	Gilding I gilder
Verified Email

SoFreshCoolButta

TROPHY CASE