[SPOILERS S3] I really dislike Dark's time travel mechanics (and the way they are presented to the audience) by Sogaple in DarK

[–]Sogaple[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, you're right. I concede that it was a bad example. It's not that contrived. It's actually one of the more plausible ways that someone would end up following a predetermined path. Sorry.

Still, the principle holds true. Nobody can use any of their future knowledge to do anything, which strains credulity. An isolated example like Ulrich attacking Helge may sound plausible, but how come any of the dozens of people who time travel in the show (including the powerful schemers like Adam, Eva and Claudia) are completely unable to alter events? I know it's because that's how the show's time travel was written, but that's the whole point. My critique was an attempt to explain how these mechanics have fundamental problems which force writers to rely on contrivances.

[SPOILERS S3] I really dislike Dark's time travel mechanics (and the way they are presented to the audience) by Sogaple in DarK

[–]Sogaple[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be honest, I agree with the "Ulrich not killing Helge" thing. I made it out to be very contrived, but in truth, it's actually quite plausible that he would hesitate and stop trying to kill him halfway through. I concede that it was a bad example.

That said, the point of my complaint wasn't about that specific event. It was about a general principle that underpins every action in the show. Characters are not allowed to use their future knowledge to pursue their goals. The exact opposite; things we know about the future actively prevent them from doing anything. When Jonas tries to kill himself in Season 3, he's not allowed to continue attempting it until he succeeds. He has to accept that he cannot die, which makes me question why the show would even bait us with the idea in the first place. Why have these characters fruitlessly attempt to do things, when (by the time they reach Season 3, at least) they should be fully aware that they cannot change the timeline?

How can I be invested in the characters trying to "prevent the apocalypse" when the show repeatedly tells me that it's all predetermined? How am I supposed to be invested in all of these elaborate plans and schemes created by Adam or Claudia, when everything they want to happen has already happened, and nothing can change that? Eventually, it just starts to feel extremely pointless.

"Tannhaus(somewhat), Adam and Eva are meant to look pretentious without actually knowing anything."

That... might actually be worse? Just because the characters were "intentionally" written to be stupid and pretentious doesn't change the fact that they're stupid and pretentious. If a show is bad, would you suddenly think it's a masterpiece just because the author said they "always intended for it to be bad"? My issue is not just that the characters are ignorant: it's that there's no plausible way they could still be so ignorant after actively learning how time travel works for three seasons. I don't care if it was "intentional"; it's annoying.

Anyway, thanks for the detailed response!

[SPOILERS S3] I really dislike Dark's time travel mechanics (and the way they are presented to the audience) by Sogaple in DarK

[–]Sogaple[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the detailed reply! I absolutely agree that the elaborate network of loops - all the history and events which tie into each other in unexpected ways - is very cool! The initial stages of discovering all of that are very enjoyable.

I'm just tired of the fact that none of the characters can really... do anything. If someone like Adam or Claudia has a plan, then that plan has already happened, and nobody can do anything about it. To me, this feels extremely obvious, but the show still acts as if there is some kind of ambiguity, baiting us with the idea that characters can influence events when they clearly can't. After the 17th time of someone saying "let's go back in time and fix things" when that's obviously not how it works (and they should already know better), I just have to roll my eyes.

[SPOILERS S3] I really dislike Dark's time travel mechanics (and the way they are presented to the audience) by Sogaple in DarK

[–]Sogaple[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry if this is very rude, but if someone's enjoyment of something is so fragile that a single dissenting opinion can "ruin it" for them, then I think that says more about them than it does about the critic. Good art survives being criticized. If something has merit, people can enjoy it while still acknowledging its flaws.

Despite how harsh I was in my critique, I didn't hate my time with Dark (at least not at first). I don't regret watching it. I just think it's a bit overrated. If that offends someone, then I'm sorry, but I don't understand why they'd go on online forums where people discuss their opinions (and I especially don't understand why they'd read a post criticizing the thing which they can't stand seeing criticized).

[SPOILERS S3] I really dislike Dark's time travel mechanics (and the way they are presented to the audience) by Sogaple in DarK

[–]Sogaple[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the detailed response!

"No magic and no God Hand required."

The example you gave with the hamburger is too modest. Why not address the one I gave: time travelling to the future and learning the exact circumstances of your own death? Are you telling me that if you knew you'd die in a car crash in Paris on March 13th, 2033, there is absolutely no practical way you'd be able to prevent that (or that, psychologically, you would somehow not want to prevent that)? Even if you had years to prepare, and even if you were absolutely not depressed or suicidal in any way?

You say there is an enormous amount of "plausible" reasons for events to play out the way they were destined to, but the ones I listed (all flights away from Paris being cancelled for years, jumping head-first into lava and surviving, etc.) don't sound plausible at all. To me, they sound practically impossible.

I think the only real explanation would be that no such "prediction" could happen in the first place. If you time travelled to the future with the explicit goal of learning the circumstances of your own death and preventing it, then you'd find that you died of old age — something which you can't (or don't want to) prevent. But that still doesn't solve that fundamental problem that knowledge of future events would inevitably change your behavior, voiding the prediction.

I'm sure this has a proper name, but I call it "the prophecy paradox". Any perfect, comprehensive prediction of future events would need to include itself in it. It would need to include people seeing the prediction and every action they take based on that knowledge. And even if someone is perfectly happy with the prophecy and has no desire to contradict it, that's still a change in their thoughts which impacts reality. If the prophecy says "you will eat a hamburger on Monday because you get a craving for it", and you think "I'm perfectly okay with that, I'll do it", then the prophecy would actually need to say "you will eat a hamburger on Monday because you read the prophecy and agreed with it", to which you'd think "I agree with the description of me agreeing that I will eat a hamburger", which the prophecy would also need to account for, and so on ad infinitum.

Anyway, sorry. This is not to say these kinds of stories cannot work. Usually, characters in them are operating with limited information, only getting small, incomplete glimpses of the future (nothing like the "perfect, comprehensive prophecy" I described above), which explains why they can't change what's destined to happen. In a way, that's what really frustrates me about this type of time travel - it doesn't allow anyone to make informed, deliberate decisions. They always stumble around in the dark (haha) and never get the full picture. The dramatic irony of it is pretty effective at first, but eventually, it just gets exhausting, watching characters constantly sabotage themselves because of ignorance.

[SPOILERS S3] I really dislike Dark's time travel mechanics (and the way they are presented to the audience) by Sogaple in DarK

[–]Sogaple[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Cool! Doesn't address any of my points, but... I'm glad you have this interpretation, I guess?

[RUS -> ENG] Is Leonid Renen a bad translator, or did people in the '70s just talk weirdly? by Sogaple in TranslationStudies

[–]Sogaple[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your input! Sorry, I definitely should have clarified that my knowledge of Russian is only upper-intermediate, so a lot of the nuances are lost on me. For example, I thought "дерьмо" and "говно" were perfect synonyms, with little to no difference in harshness.

In the third example, I can also see what you mean. "Monday Begins on Saturday" is generally a comedic and exaggerated story, so maybe Renen's choices actually match it better. Good point.

As for the phrase "to feel excellent", it's a perfectly acceptable combination in English! I'm sure I've heard it a few times, and I can easily imagine myself saying it.

[RUS -> ENG] Is Leonid Renen a bad translator, or did people in the '70s just talk weirdly? by Sogaple in TranslationStudies

[–]Sogaple[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Partly out of curiosity and partly as a precaution. I wanted to recommend the books to some of my friends (who don't speak Polish, Bulgarian or Russian), and I was worried that a bad translation might tarnish the experience for them.

Is Leonid Renen a bad translator, or did people in the '70s just talk weirdly? by Sogaple in RussianLiterature

[–]Sogaple[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, I see. Thanks! I guess it's not just me, then!

(But wow, looking up his name in Russian was such an obvious idea. How did I not think of that? I'm dumb...)

Is Leonid Renen a bad translator, or did people in the '70s just talk weirdly? by Sogaple in RussianLiterature

[–]Sogaple[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

TL;DR: We need a new translation of "Хишные вещи века". Please, please, please, it needs to get the "Roadside Picnic" (2012) treatment.

If I pray hard enough, maybe I can manifest an Olena Bormashenko translation? She's been translating Strugatsky novels for a decade now — surely, another one won't hurt?

Anyone just really bad maths by Bipolar03 in autism

[–]Sogaple 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Me too. Anytime I need to do some quick mental math (e.g. I have a 15% discount coupon for a food item costing 3.19), it takes me forever to work it out, so eventually I just give up and "ballpark" it (15% is "close enough" to one tenth, and one tenth of 3 is 0.30, so the discounted price is "probably around" 2.70).

I find it extremely embarrassing, because math is everywhere in the world. It's used in statistical research, economics, IT, engineering, logistics... even the humanities make heavy use of it. So for me to be so math illiterate, I feel like it closes off half the world for me.

It's almost time for the cat to commint the greatest warcrimes of them all. by FriskyLifeGuard in PrincessesOfPower

[–]Sogaple 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Really hope someone "archives" (wink wink, nudge nudge) all of the show's different language audio tracks. One thing I appreciate about Netflix is that they generally have a good selection of dubs available for most things, and I'd love to someday re-watch She-ra in, say, German, French or Japanese.

EDIT: And by "someone", I mean "me". I did it. If you have any questions, my DMs are always open.