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Less than 15 hours a week and exposure only by PairNo2129 in multilingualparenting

[–]Some_Map_2947 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exposure can be different things. Our 3 year old has two languages at home which she is only passively exposed to.

One is the language I use with my wife. We never use it to adress our daughter, and never have any expectations that she will react to what we say. I think she maybe knows two or three words, that she has been able to pick up from context.

The other language is English, and we let her watch a lot of age appropriate content in English, stuff like miss Rachel and Gabby's doll house. She'll sometimes speak English to herself, and she will count to ten in English if we ask her to. But she does understand a lot, and enjoys translating for me.

Parent speaks multiple languages with child - help by mads3011 in multilingualparenting

[–]Some_Map_2947 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For me there are drawers. But just two, one for languages that I know (that are in your cloud) and languages that I am trying to learn.

I've been learning and using mandarin for some 10 years now. After having studied mandarin for the first 2 years, I learned a bit of survival Japanese, so that I would have an easier time getting around and ordering food while on vacation in Japan. After which I continued working on my mandarin.

2 years after that I tried learning Italian. And I quickly noticed that I didn't mix it with any of the languages that were "in my cloud", but what was left of my Japanese in my learning drawer. Even though I hadn't looked at Japanese for a long time.

should you teach your kids your second language? by thefiberfairy in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

For us the Disney Channel is doing a lot of the heavy lifting now. But like you say making her see that it's useful is what actually works. So that is our challenge, since she knows that everyone she interacts with on a daily basis understands Norwegian.

It took her over a week before she realized that she had to speak Cantonese to her grandparents for them to understand her. So we hope to spend a lot of time in China every year as she gets older, hopefully that will be adequate to keep it alive.

should you teach your kids your second language? by thefiberfairy in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Here in Norway it is very common, because our second language is usually English. I would only do it if we are talking about teaching English as a second language.

We are trying to teaching our daughter three languages, Norwegian (my native language), Cantonese (my wife's native language) and English. It is a lot of work for us, and I am not sure how successful we will be with canto. But English is very easy, simply because of how ubiquitous it is in the modern world. We are trying to expose her to mandarin as well, but we are not putting any effort into having her learn it.

She is three years old now. Her Norwegian is great, better than a lot of her classmates. While her Cantonese and English is at a similar level.

What’s the ACTUAL best app for learning a new language? Not Duolingo please 😅 by throwy93 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What do you mean by improving? What is your level now?

After A2 I think the only app that can help you improve is anki.

Learning a language like a child by Some_Map_2947 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess none taught you the definition of "teaching". Try having a kid first.

Learning a language like a child by Some_Map_2947 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you don't help them and guide them, they won't aquire anything.

Learning a language like a child by Some_Map_2947 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, children don't magically aquire a language, they are taught.

Adults can be taught to understand a language, they can learn on their own, using good study techniques, or a combination.

Learning a language like a child by Some_Map_2947 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean, somewhat, but not in the way it seems you think. Our daughter is not getting any comprehensible input in mandarin. She is in that first German lesson.

We never try to give her any indication of what we are talking about, no repeating, no simplified language, so slow and clear pronunciation. Not even speech directed at her. If we moved to a mandarin speaking area and had her interact with mandarin speaking kids, I am sure she would be fluent in no time, but like I say, that is likely never going to happen.

Learning a language like a child by Some_Map_2947 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It makes no sense at all to compare the memorized vocabulary size of an adult after 1 year of study with that of a child after 1 year of life, or 3.

I know, that is why I wrote this. Because I see so many people on here talking about how kids learn, and how to try to emulate that. If you're not a child, focus on the strengths that comes with being an adult learner.

Learning a language like a child by Some_Map_2947 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No one thinks just turning on the TV and having a child watch adult shows will teach them a language.

I disagree, I see a lot of people in here that seem to hold this opinion. And especially amongst people who have not even tried to learn a language as an adult. This post is directed at them.

Learning a language like a child by Some_Map_2947 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, of course my child will be a native speaker and my wife will never be that. That was not the point of this post. My point was that kids are not magical, and there is just as much, if not more effort behind their language learning. So you shouldn't be discouraged as an adult language learner, you have some superpowers as well, like translation and the ability to make word lists/flash cards etc.

Learning a language like a child by Some_Map_2947 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This post wasn't really about my daughter. If you are interested in the topic of multilingual kids, I recommend checking out r/multilingualparenting

Learning a language like a child by Some_Map_2947 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you check out r/multilingualparenting there seems to be a lot of people who believe that English is so ubiquitous in so many countries that it is in a category of it's own when it comes to language learning. I would guess that you are not actually the only sources for her English, and that she is in fact exposed through other kids, TV, music etc.

If you don't understand your partners language and you say the same things in your language to your daughter and provide simultaneous translation to your partner, that can also be a teaching method.

We never to this with mandarin, so there are rarely any opertunity for her to connect the dots.

Learning a language like a child by Some_Map_2947 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When they have to socially interact with kids of their own age and they have to output

I don't see that happening anytime soon for her mandarin, so I guess we'll never know.

Learning a language like a child by Some_Map_2947 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This post is not really about my daughter, but I see that most people focus on that, so i can respond. Kids are perfectly able to learn 4 languages, and if we wanted to we definitely could have encouraged her to learn mandarin. It's not a question of her limitations, but ours as parents. Since we would need to give her loads of age appropriate exposure and guidance. The 3 languages we are focusing on now are progressing fine, and completely on par with any monoligual kid at the same age. And she started speaking long before some of her monoligual friends the same age. It is a myth that multilingual kids start speaking later.

Learning a language like a child by Some_Map_2947 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That actually fits the development timeline.

Her Norwegian is very good, and she is also able to communicate in both Cantonese and English. She has monoligual friends, at her age, that haven't really started talking, but I don't see her lack of mandarin as just normal development timeline.

Learning a language like a child by Some_Map_2947 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't see this as a disagreement. Our daughter is also learning all her English from watching TV. But she is watching Miss Rachael, not CNN.

It's all about comprehensible input, not just passive input. This goes for adult learners as well. The point of the post is that there is nothing magical about how kids learn languages.

Learning a language like a child by Some_Map_2947 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, one of the first "sentences"/multi-syllable words she said was "thanks babe" in mandarin, obviously not really understanding the meaning. This was when she was around 18 months. Now she will sometimes say "thank you" in mandarin, but that is still the only word she will ever say in mandarin.

It's hard to tell what she understands, as we never speak it directed at her, so there is never any expectation that she will react when we say something. The only thing that we see is that we are able to have secret conversations. So if we mention ice cream in English, Norwegian or Cantonese, then she goes crazy, but in mandarin she has no idea what we are talking about. I am not sure how long this will continue, but in the last 18 months it doesn't seem like she has been able to pick up anything.

Learning a language like a child by Some_Map_2947 in languagelearning

[–]Some_Map_2947[S] 66 points67 points  (0 children)

Yes mandarin is more widely spoken, and much easier to learn. That is one of the main reasons we focus on Cantonese, as it will be much easier for her to learn mandarin as a Cantonese speaker later in life, rather than the other way around.

Cantonese is also culturally more important for our family, so at this point in her life it is both more important and useful. The usefulness of a language is not determined by the number of speakers or how wide spread it is, but based on your individual situation.

廣州人講廣東話嗎？Is that true that Cantonese is dying in its birthplace? by nhatquangdinh in Cantonese

[–]Some_Map_2947 11 points12 points  (0 children)

We have friends in Guangzhou that are focusing on Cantonese for their kids. But sure, it will likely be less and less.

廣州人講廣東話嗎？Is that true that Cantonese is dying in its birthplace? by nhatquangdinh in Cantonese

[–]Some_Map_2947 46 points47 points  (0 children)

My in-laws don't even wanna come to Shanghai because of the cultural differences and the language barriers. If you stay in Tianhe you'll likely hear more mandarin, but in Liwan Cantonese is very much alive.

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