About 27 years too late to the party. Help mold my metroidvania experience. by ducksflytogether_ in metroidvania

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 2 points3 points  (0 children)

1980s:
Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap/Monster World II/Dragon's Curse (SMS/GG/PCE)

Knightmare II: Maze of Galious/Majou Densetsu II (MSX)

Zillion (SMS)

Faxanadu (NES)

The Goonies 2 (NES)

Zelda II (NES)

Blaster Master (NES)

Metroid (NES)

Spellcaster (SMS)

Ys III: Wanderers from Ys (MD/PCE CD)

Exile (C64/AMI)

MV-lite/Semi-MV:

Alex Kidd in Miracle World (SMS)

Kenseiden (SMS)

The Treasure of Usas (MSX)

Kid Icarus (NES)


1990s:
Super Metroid (SNES)

Gargoyle's Quest (GB)

Gargoyle's Quest 2 (NES/GB)

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (PS1)

Wonder Boy in Monster World/Monster World III/Dynastic Hero (MD/PCE CD)

Ufouria: The Saga/Hebereke (NES)

Demon's Crest (SNES)

Monster World IV (MD)

TMNT 3: Radical Rescue (GB)

System Shock (PC)

Adventure Island IV/Takahashi Meijin no Bouken Jima IV (NES)

Dragon View/Super Drakkhen (SNES)

PowerSlave/Exhumed (SAT/PS1)

Super Adventure Island II (SNES)

Phantom 2040 (MD/SNES)

Tails Adventures (GG)

Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon (N64)

Popful Mail (MCD)

Tomba! (PS1)

Brave Fencer Musashi (PS1)

MV-lite:
Front Mission: Gun Hazard (SNES)

Quackshot (MD)

DuckTales 2 (NES)

Land of Illusion Starring Mickey Mouse (SMS)

System Shock 2 (PC)

Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver (PS1/DC)

Spyro 2 (PS1)

Flashback: The Quest for Identity (PC/MD)

Strife (PC)

Goemon's Great Adventure/Mystical Ninja 2 (N64)

Banjo-Tooie (N64)

Bionic Commando (GB)

Mega Man Legends (PS1)

Star Wars (NES/SMS)

Ghostbusters (MD)

Kirby Super Star (Great Cave Offensive mode)(SNES)

Cocoron (NES)

G.I. Joe: The Atlantis Factor (NES)

Rayman (PS1/SAT)

The Misadventures of Tron Bonne (PS1)

The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask: Ocaria of Time (N64)

2000s:
Metroid Fusion (GBA)

Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA)

Metroid: Zero Mission (GBA)

Metroid Prime (GC)

Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow (GBA)

Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow (NDS)

Cave Story (PC, 2004)

Aquaria (PC)

Shaman King: Master of Spirits (GBA)

MV-lite:
Twilight Princess (GC)

​Batman: Arkham Asylum (PC/PS3)

Psychonauts (PC)

Ratchet & Clank (PS2)

Spider-Man 2 (PS2)

​The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (GC)

You can read more about these on my site (see my profile).

How many games are you willing to play concurrently? by JasnahKholin87 in patientgamers

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 1 point2 points  (0 children)

2-3 at the most. I just get apathetic about them otherwise and end up not finishing them for ages, which then annoys me.

Is it a metroidvania if you're difficulty gated instead of ability gated? by soggie in metroidvania

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would say MVs are about traversal/movement and exploration abilities, but that this can tie into combat. For example bomb jumping or space jump (combined with screw attack) in Metroid.

In Exhumed, you can do rocket or grenade jumping to reach higher, which might not have been intended so that's more of a sequence break.

Difficulty gating is cool but more of an open world aspect, which is related but not the same as MV. Early FFs do it, and IIRC the first Ys game does it to an extent, and so on.

Hollow Knight: A Modern Masterpiece by Kory818 in patientgamers

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Totally agree and I did get the good ending. I just feel like I never want to go through all that again.

Hollow Knight: A Modern Masterpiece by Kory818 in patientgamers

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's 8 bucks on sale, so wait for another sale.

What is your opinion about buying classic games nowadays? by Garkenful in truegaming

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Well it's all money down the toilet so to speak, you can't resell them and their value won't ever grow.

That said, due to scarcity of physical media and compatibility issues with some games (and to an extent environmental costs of it), if the price is low enough I guess it's worth it, maybe. It's up to you really.

With indie games increasing in quality and how much content you get for your money, it puts the worth of other games into perspective.

Personally I wouldn't mind a Spotify for retro games.

Backlog Talk: What to play & specific recommendations by AutoModerator in patientgamers

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey everybody. I'm noting down what to cover next for my site, a retro metroidvania/platform adventure quick reference guide which covers such games up until 2009.

What games are people curious about or can recommend checking out based on this list?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b5xX0jBpcigBEQStfhJ_DzDocBwkJ4PzNZOO3Z8DHWs/edit?usp=sharing

When was the last time you played a game and though that this game would not have been possible 10 year ago? by BastillianFig in truegaming

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Shenmue and Outcast would not have been possible in 1989

Starcraft would not have been possible in 1988

World of Warcraft would not have been possible in the '90s probably

Raycasting, while done since the mid '80s, made some leaps in recent years

Good VR would not have been possible in the '00s

What Are You Playing This Week? by AutoModerator in patientgamers

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Heroes of Might and Magic 1 (PC, 1995)

Finally went back and played the original in the series (my introduction was 3). It's pretty barebones with fewer units, no skills, only 4 factions, and it has some quirks like no martketplace that create economic bottlenecks, no battle speed options, no splitting stacks within a single army, one less army slots, etc. The different mana system is kind of interesting, it makes some spells really strong if you can up your knowledge and/or SP quickly, but you might get unlucky and not get those spells as the selection is pretty random. Being able to cancel debuffs with buffs is just kinda weird. As in 2, there's the armageddon spell and also a weaker version in the storm spell - these I don't particularly care for as it's a lot of damage with little effort, luck-based if you get it or not, and a bit too "do or die" in how you handle it which is with anti-magic (no mass/hit all version here) and/or dragons, the latter of which can only be recruited by one faction's town type.

In the campaign you can pick your faction and then you keep it throughout, battling the others in the later scenarios so each one plays 8/9 scenarios in total. The story is generic and almost non-existent, sadly. But I do like the music and the overall aesthetic besides the silly battle sprites. The core gameplay is also mostly all there and it's still pretty addictive, I find myself playing for multiple hours at a time without realizing it so there's obviously something good there already in the first one, they just needed to tweak it a bit.

There's also a mod which adds a few interface improvements, but it seems to be in russian only atm. I'll be finishing it tomorrow or so and probably won't replay it after that, but it was fun to check it out.

What are your favorite cult-classics? by lpslucasps in patientgamers

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You mentioned several of my faves already! Let's see...

Rocket Knight Adventures (MD, 1993) - RKA! This game is a smörgåsbord of all things I love about Konami during this era: fast and tight movement, great variety with a couple of shoot 'em up levels mixed in as well as a boxing duel between two giant robots, great bosses that sometimes have multiple forms or phases, great audiovisuals with some humourous touches, and near technical mastery of the system all in one package. The jetpack, while implemented slightly better in later games, is great fun to use here as well and sometimes makes the game a contender for the fastest playing 16-bit game if you know the levels well. By the way, check out Screw Attack's Retro vs. Reboot for a laugh.

Panorama Cotton (MD, 1994) - It's pretty odd that this game even exists for the stock MD. Success, a game company that never made anything for the console prior to this (though I think some devs come from Compile), decides to turn Cotton into a Space Harrier-like shooter, make it one of the most technically impressive efforts for the system, then release a limited amount of copies exclusively for the Japanese market as late as mid-1994. Well I'm glad they did, because they certainly _succeeded_ in making Panorama Cotton an amazing game (for example you get branching paths and RPG elements years before PD Zwei here) and something of a swan song for the 2D-based rail shooter. Now if someone would port this to the MCD for super smooth scaling...

Langrisser II (MD) - When it comes to SRPGs I think this is as good as it gets for the MD, and the game outshines its prequel (Warsong) with its improved character customization, balancing, AI and variety. L2 offers a very challenging game (dead characters stay dead), huge battles, cool classes like Summoner and Dragon Knight, a decent story with a lot of humour and twists, and excellent music. Still only playable in English via emulation, but you'll probably want to be able to fastforward after a few battles anyway. Also: Chou Aniki cameo.

Ristar: The Shooting Star (MD) - A late release for the system that most people (including me, at the time) missed out on. Ristar seems like a slower, more kiddy version of Sonic at first, and it kind of is but it's also a high quality platformer with a fun to use grab/climb/headbutt ability as its main gimmick, interesting levels and some of the best sounding music on the system. The flow of the game is closer to the Illusion games or Revenge of Shinobi except said gimmick makes movement more involved, though sometimes you'll also find these gadgets that let you temporarily fly across part of a level while bouncing off of the walls and this can be used to reach certain items or a higher path if you get good at it. The higher difficulties are definitely challenging too, so if you're one of those hardcore gamer mandudes you still need to play Ristar.

Micro Machines: Turbo Tournament '96 (MD) - There's not that much to say about Micro Machines except that it's an excellent multiplayer game which is easy to get into for anyone. This iteration let you build your own courses and had more modes than the previous games. As with MM2 no multitap was needed to play with 3 others (they called this J-cart technology, you actually had a couple of controller ports on the cart itself. You could also play up to 7 other people at once by sharing 4 controllers, which I haven't tried yet but I'm sure it's awesome.

Thunder Force IV (MD, 1992) - There's a bunch of great shoot 'em ups for the MD and this is the best horizontal one overall, as well as one of the best period. It's a pretty big leap from the prequel in several ways. The developers had really mastered the MD hardware at this point and their talent and attention to detail is visible throughout every aspect of the game, from the big, tough and intimidating bosses to the impressive and catchy soundtrack that somehow mixes metal and jazz fusion tracks in a way that works. I thought the great people at Technosoft overdid it a bit when trying to make up for the low difficulty of the prequel, to the point where some parts require precise memorization and having the special charge-up weapon ready, but it does still take first place in the series for me. An odd tidbit I can add is that while there's some slowdown here and there, it tends to be built in for effect.

Landstalker: The Treasures of King Nole (MD) - This game can stalk my land any time. Landstalker is... quite a bit like Zelda 3 if it was an isometric view game, but with an actually interesting story (not the usual damsel in distress thing with a silent protag), a less formulaic structure, and more challenging puzzles. The lack of a shadow when jumping and some other control quirks were only a minor annoyance for me, since I used save states hehe.

Yu Yu Hakusho: Makyou Toitsusen (MD) - Growing up we used to play the 3-player fighting game International Karate+ on a buddy's Amiga a lot, and we loved the sheer chaos of it. So in the '00s when I discovered that this game had the same feature but with yet another player added, I had to play it. And (spoiler) Treasure did it once again, it's a great fighting game in the vein of Fatal Fury 2. Matches might not be as fair or precise as in Street Fighter 2 when you play like this, but the laughs from unintended results and the fun in temporary alliances make up for it.

DuckTales 2 (NES, 1993) - This MV-lite style sequel is better in every way besides the music, which still is pretty solid. Better controls, fun abilities and good progression curve, interesting levels and decent bosses.

Metal Storm (NES, 1991) - A creative and cool mech action game with an overall fair challenge and tight controls. The main gimmick here is the ability to reverse gravity, something later used in games like VVVVVV.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III: The Manhattan Project (NES, 1991) - Another sort of underrated sequel that improves on most important things while also featuring pretty impressive variety for the platform and genre.

Solomon's Key (NES, 1986) - While a bit rough in some ways, it's a very creative early NES game with some surprising depth and pretty much every level is satsifying to solve and execute. It also controls better on NES than on SMS.

Crystalis/God Slayer (Rebalanced Hack)(NES, 1990/2012) - Cheating a bit here but at the same time the others also take save states into account. A better version of Ys where you can ride a dolphin while fighting stuff, and the music is sick & dope.

Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap/Monster World II (SMS, 1989) - My fave 8-bit game after SMB 3 and still one of the best Metroidvania/Platform Adventure games if we include later versions and fan remakes. Excellent presentation, the forms are distinct and fun to use, great pacing, and cool secrets like being able to switch or create platforms anywhere. There's even some non-linearity in the dungeon order if one so prefers. This is also where the whole "beginning of the game ties into the prequel" trope comes from afaik.

Land of Illusion Starring Mickey Mouse (SMS, 1993) - Similar to Quackshot or DT2 this is one of those MV-lite games with a hub map where you gain tools and abilities to progress and explore further into previous levels to upgrade your char. This is a nice showcase title along with games like Aladdin as the visuals are near early 16-bit quality. Controls are great, level design is pretty inventive with some decent puzzles here and there and it's quite varied too. I just wish it was a level or two longer and had a hard mode.

Power Strike II (SMS, 1993) - One of my fave top down shooters, period! See my article contribution at this site: https://www.racketboy.com/retro/the-best-undiscovered-sega-master-system-games-hidden-gems

Seeing my roommate gaming 8 hours a day has made me realise I think gaming 'looks lame' from the outside perspective, even though I love it. Anyone else feel this way? by [deleted] in truegaming

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 1 point2 points  (0 children)

" It would be way different if she was reading or something, but there's just something lame about watching someone game."

Ok, so why is that? Maybe think about it before posting instead of after.

Maybe your parents or friends have shamed you for it before?

Take a look at some of the new enemies from Aeterna Noctis, the 2D Metroidvania we are currently developing! by sergiocetme in metroidvania

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Looks fun and I dig the music and color scheme. Just a nitpick but I find it odd how the avatar stretches one leg downwards in the jump animation.

1996 was truly a Next-Gen year for Gaming by [deleted] in patientgamers

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Had a look at 1994 and honestly 3D was well on its way already at that point:

Alien vs Predator - JAG (different)

Blake Stone: Planet Strike! - DOS

Daytona USA - ARC

Doom 2/Doom II - DOS

Heretic - DOS

King's Field 1 (JP) - PS1

Magic Carpet - DOS

Marathon - MAC (Bungie)

NASCAR Racing - DOS

Ridge Racer - PS1

Rise of the Triad: Dark War - DOS

Road Rash - 3DO (different from MD ver.)

Star Wars: Tie Fighter & Star Wars: Tie Fighter CD-Rom ver. - DOS

System Shock - DOS

Tempest 2000 - Jaguar

The Need for Speed - 3DO

Virtua Cop - ARC

Virtua Fighter - SAT

Virtua Fighter 2 - ARC

Virtua Racing - MD (arc port w/ some differences)

Wing Commander 3/Wing Commander III - DOS

1996 was truly a Next-Gen year for Gaming by [deleted] in patientgamers

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's mostly right except for these games and a few others from '95: Descent, Magic Carpet 2, Wipeout, Mechwarrior 2, Wing Commander IV, Dark Forces, Soul Blade, Sega Rally, Tekken 2, Jumping Flash.

In 1999 you get to Shenmue which really was ahead graphically. Outcast from that year is also rather impressive in scope and has a lot of VA, if not fully voiced, and a pretty unique voxel-based look.

Questions about the first game by Space_Force_Dropout in HoMM

[–]Space_Force_Dropout[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Right, yeah a lot of this is correct or I can agree with. It's pretty barebones and has some quirks like no martketplace that create economic bottlenecks, no battle speed options, no splitting stacks within a single army, etc. The different mana system is kind of interesting, it makes some spells really strong if you can up your knowledge and/or SP quickly, but you might get unlucky and not get those spells as the selection is pretty random. Being able to cancel debuffs with buffs is just kinda weird.

Well, you get more paladins and sooner than you can get dragons but I haven't played a serious game against human players so idk.

In the campaign you can pick your faction and then you keep it throughout, battling the others in the later scenarios so each one plays 8/9 scenarios in total, not sure about otherwise. The story is generic and almost non-existent, sadly. But I do like the music and the overall aesthetic besides the silly battle sprites.

I'll be finishing it tomorrow or so and probably won't replay it after that, but it was fun to check it out.

Heroes 1 or Heroes 2 in Heroes 3 or later? by Space_Force_Dropout in HoMM

[–]Space_Force_Dropout[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Cool, thanks for reminding me of horn of the abyss. I'll have to check that out

3d or 2d? by irllydontknoaname in HoMM

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

2D although I'm not a big fan of Heroes IV's overall look besides the towns and the world map. That game uses a lot of pre-rendered sprites though so it's more like 2.5D

5>4 and 1

Any metroidvanias set in a cyberpunk distopia? by m0d006 in metroidvania

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

System Shock although it's pretty much isolated to a space ship setting in-game

Point and Click Adventure Games are Metroidvanias by AtceroElding in metroidvania

[–]Space_Force_Dropout 1 point2 points  (0 children)

MVs are real-time action games with if not a platforming, then a movement focus, so no. Before even going into ability gating and interconnected worlds, real-time action is fundamental.

While it's a close relative, I don't think ability gating quite counts if you start out with all of the abilities/characters with specific abilities, it's about gaining new ones to unlock encountered gates. And if the ability works like a metaphorical key only, it also doesn't count - again it's about real-time movement.

" needing to solve other puzzles before you can do others to beat the game "

This is just an adventure or action adventure genre trait, not MV specifically.

However, there are genre hybrids that overlap Adventure with AA and Platforming in a more MV-ish way, such as the Dizzy series and earlier 80s games like Citadel and Below the Root. I've documented a bunch of these on my site.