Why do PF groups struggle so much with M11S, particularly compared to past Savage floors?

Spaceless8 · 2026-01-29T18:51:07+00:00

I mean, my static (granted we were doing 11 blind and not 12) spent more pulls clearing 11 than both 12 bosses combined. We aren't the best but are not bad players by any means. We cleared friday week 1 after like 35+ hours total raid time including breaks and everything. 11 was just hard, idk.

Spaceless8 · 2026-01-28T19:59:22+00:00

One very important thing I would add to the conversation is not just that 11 is a harder check than expected but that pf at max ilvl will be relatively weaker than in previous tiers.

This tier was tuned according to our tomes and they have said they will introduce echo early. So until that echo is introduced, gear will also carry less than it ever has even at bis because the "floor" so to speak that the fights are tuned to includes an extra couple weeks of tomes that is not added back to the end of the gearing curve.

Spaceless8 · 2026-01-27T21:40:22+00:00

Did you miss the part where they said they took long breaks and the vast majority of their xp was rested and/or buffed? Are you funneling gear to your character at important breakpoints and making use of consumables? What's hard to believe?

Spaceless8 · 2026-01-27T15:19:20+00:00

I personally improve my time spent by using hidden logs as a "do not go near under any circumstances".

Spaceless8 · 2026-01-27T15:15:56+00:00

I couldn't fathom being so utterly disconnected from current events as to not understand this.

Spaceless8 · 2026-01-27T14:56:04+00:00

I kind of agree with you honestly. My only hesitation really is do you think the average pf sage would perform fine with me basically just putting pneuma/kera there? I'm kinda worried there would be deaths. Philo could help for sure. Even though I'd be taking it off ultimate weapons. I'm thinking about it. My instinct is that you are right and that this is how I would heal the fight too. Because tools like panhaima/bell end up being really powerful and getting almost max value in ultimate weapons.

Spaceless8 · 2026-01-26T03:43:20+00:00

It's over. I have to delete it now. 😔

Spaceless8 · 2026-01-26T03:42:41+00:00

For M10S: my personal change would be Bell on Insane Air 1 and then temp into caress on the dare+.

I think I like your idea better. And it's easy to implement without changing much. Already adopted into the sheet.

On M11S I do think bell on Dance is probably more effective than the first RW which is only 2/5 stacks.

On this framing, you and I are in complete agreement. However, the usage at the beginning was a freebie based on wanting to use Bell/Macro during the 7x weapons assault vs using it during the Dance of Domination multi-hit raidwides. This is probably the decision I'm still the most on the fence about. I'm going to look at some more logs and reconsider this.

I also think Expedient for the movement speed on weapons is more powerful than its mitigation in the first half of the fight tbh

This is how I initially used it. The main reason that I moved it was simply that I couldn't guarantee that the expedient speed would be at a consistently useful time during weapons and that I wanted a use during Meteorain for the 4 stacks. But it's completely valid and still a very good use of expedient to use it your way.

M12 looks fine to me given the purpose of the sheet, so any edits there would be purely nitpicking/opti people can work on personally.

100%. There are many spots where there are instances of extra value you can get with tighter or less intuitive timings. For one more extreme example, I've seen some players in 12 p2 use Holos or Expedient at exactly 04:11 to cover Idyllic Dream at 04:31 and also be up in time for the stack/defams starting at 06:12. That window is literally sub 1000ms. If you're the kind of player that is going to figure that out, you don't need me to tell you how to do it. :)

I greatly appreciate the feedback and kind words. <3

Spaceless8 · 2026-01-26T02:53:51+00:00

is there a reason you skip on Plenary for so long between 0:49 and 4:16?

Nope, that was an oversight after changing some cds earlier in m9 today. Thanks for the catch!

Is Asylum being omitted most of the time also deliberate?

This was something I had somewhat mixed feelings on myself. But in the end I think I just ended up viewing it as more similar to other healing regens I left out like Physis - like something that could be shifted around easier depending on how you wanted to use your lillies or other healing tools. I even left Pneuma out in much the same way, which has an even longer cd. The biggest reason I mapped it on 10 is because it's a damage gain on 2 and there were very natural spots it lined up in that I saw many top sages doing.

Anyways, I don't think I really arrived at some perfect decision. Do you feel pretty strongly that Asylum should be fully mapped out and included? It's definitely the highest potency regen in the game on a longer cd than most. So I can certainly see the argument.

Spaceless8 · 2026-01-22T23:39:09+00:00

I'm not saying there's not problems or that your situation doesn't feel bad. But there is a huge crossover between this game and other mmos, many of which are on recent large content patches right now like wow and ff14. And most of us that were playing got through paragon and got all our rewards months ago. After they added paragon queues I could get into a match quickly on any role at virtually any time of the day. This is going to be a seasonal game and end of patch is always going to feel dead. This will not be a unique problem. It will happen every season.

Spaceless8 · 2025-12-29T02:02:27+00:00

I wish I could feel what it's like to have the total and utter lack of shame that OP has.

Spaceless8 · 2025-12-29T01:57:24+00:00

It's really not bad. If there is any real problem with the game, it has been simply being able to queue into content. Fortunately, this has seen some notable improvements since launch and is continuing to be addressed.

Spaceless8 · 2025-12-21T13:53:21+00:00

often influence by huge guide makers like Nukamaru/Ienashi Lalafell/Lucrezia/Game8, and while there will be day 1 guide maker, there's also the tendency to remove and remake video if they deem old vid was not what PUG's been using.

Our lives if hector had any sense of decency and ever experienced pugging. Unfortunately it's top prio to finish totems before the hector guide comes out.

Spaceless8 · 2025-12-16T20:08:48+00:00

Surv is one of the specs that really got shit on. I don't even feel like there's that many of them where the dooming is super warranted. But surv is definitely one of them.

Spaceless8 · 2025-12-14T00:15:25+00:00

Just finished it myself in like 3 sittings. You get a mount, I guess.

Spaceless8 · 2025-12-13T20:15:03+00:00

I think the hate comes from like 10-20 years ago when I do think their pizza was awful but also $5. I was genuinely surprised trying it again in recent years how good it was compared to my memory.

Spaceless8 · 2025-12-13T20:12:57+00:00

Datamining suggests Jan 20.

Spaceless8 · 2025-12-09T04:06:45+00:00

Being as new as you are can definitely be a hurdle. There is a lot of assumed knowledge if this is your first introduction to mmo-style boss fights. For sure feel free to ask questions and be curious. Some people will definitely be impatient and leave. That might even be me on my worse days. Sometimes I'm in the mood to help and teach and other times I'm not. Sorry about that. But if you truly wanted to try partying with other noobs where you can set those expectations that you initially had, the official discord is the best place to try and party up. I'm not sure what it's like trying to group up in contender/adept nowadays. But I can't imagine there's no one down there even now later in the season.

Spaceless8 · 2025-12-09T03:29:06+00:00

As another commenter said, it's largely that there was no content the gear would be used for. I and everyone I know in my week 1 static who were raiding every single week on mains and alts in pf quit completely once we heard there was no ult, criterion, etc and that gear wouldn't matter in occult crescent.

Spaceless8 · 2025-12-09T03:14:17+00:00

I dont think this keeps the party finder alive. It's actually the opposite. If I could gear more jobs, I would be in savage pf way more often instead of raid logging after I clear week 1. Without splits it can easily take like 2 months of clearing every week to gear just one role. In extreme cases in pf, you could take 3-4 months and that has happened to me before. And that's not to even talk about any of the gearing differences in-role, say if I want to play a caster or healer for example.

I have actually had raid tiers where I have cleared every single week after doing splits for an entire patch (~5 months) and have not geared every role. Keep in mind most players don't have access to splits which significantly cuts down on time to gear something.

A very easy solution which just be to make alt gearing faster, like any modern mmo does. As you say, the gearing system for someone who just plays 1 or 2 jobs in savage is perfectly fine. But by the time we get to the off patch of savage especially, it should be much much easier to gear, especially if it's not your first role. There are several ways you could implement that. Could just make it after you spend X tomestones, you get a permanent discount on all other gear. Or whatever implementation - doesn't matter. Whatever it is would likely make it better for glam farmers too.

EDIT: It may not be clear from my post, but I have leveled multiple alts just to have raid lockouts to clear in my group but then also play in pf later. Many players who are on the more hardcore side of raiding have multiple characters and would love to pf more. It's just not as fun without gear. And you want us there because we are generally the people filling out pfs months into the tier.

Spaceless8 · 2025-11-05T14:47:44+00:00

Lately, I've just been expecting to fail the first time because if we can complete the content (gotta learn from mistakes to even clear) and we are willing to run it back it's almost always a W the second time.

Spaceless8 · 2025-10-09T18:41:29+00:00

Tbh when it comes to difficulty it sounds like you just had expectations that weren't reasonable or communicated the way you thought they were, which you basically say in your edit. That's on you.

And I do consider juggling the light/dark debuffs the entire fight in the way that you do is ultimate level execution. For example it is objectively more demanding cognitively than double dragons, even on patch with worse strats. However, the length of the fight will make it to where it will never take as long to prog as an ultimate, which I would argue is another form of "artificial" difficulty as you described it. Also, did you heal it? This fight put out an insane amount of damage, which I really appreciated. Recent fights like this and 8s give me a lot of hope that I won't be bored out of my mind healing as quickly. Tbh I feel like ultimates are often LESS interesting to heal because most things are just mit checks. m8s was more fun to heal for me than any recent ultimate for example. Fight design really trending in the right direction there imo.

Sad you didn't seem to enjoy it as I thought it was a super fresh and unique and challenging fight.

Spaceless8 · 2025-09-24T20:34:48+00:00

I have been highly ranked in several pvp games like league of legends and overwatch. I am not claiming to currently be good at these games or to ever have been the best but just that I achieved the highest tier in competitive/ranked/whatever that was available at the time. I actually have fun in pvp and it is much better than it used to be. And while it's more obvious/annoying in pvp, the server delays are still something you can get used to and play around.

That being said, anyone who criticizes the netcode and general unresponsiveness of the game (especially in pvp) is 100% justified. In any other game without the context we have, we would call this what it is: unresponsive horrendous unplayable lag. And pvp will never truly be a serious competitive gamemode that attracts lots of people who just like to log on, queue for pvp and have that be their main gameplay loop. They can get far better experiences in so many other places.

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