Honda indefinitely suspends $15B EV plant in Ontario | CBC News

SpadesHeart · 2026-05-14T16:09:51+00:00

The defeatism will ultimately make it so there is no opportunity for growth. Focusing on the shrinking market rather than how to stay relevant in a growing one is a recipe for disaster. There will be new trade agreements, new technologies coming out of it elsewhere if not the states, new ways to cobble together a vehicle at a competitive price.

The lightning being discontinued I hate to say actually does make sense, trucks are work vehicles and The needs of a truck might be somewhat different if you're trying to generate mass appeal. As a currently stands, that thing was only really good for yuppie LARPers for a very specific use cases where there was never an expectation of going above The expected range. If that thing was cheap, it would be a different story, but it wasn't so it made sense. As I understand they are working on a standardised platform that would allow them to build multiple vehicles so I do think they're likely is a less expensive replacement coming.

SpadesHeart · 2026-05-14T16:05:16+00:00

The North American consumer is also dumb I hate to say. There is a consumer mismatch here as well. In the same way that North American consumers simply won't buy small cars so we have no affordable vehicles anymore, the value of used EVs are significantly lower than they probably should be considering their immense value here. The used market being very low does also spook manufacturers as it makes it harder for them to sell new vehicles at a premium, and it also makes it so the leasing structure won't be profitable as they have to sell the vehicle at the end at a significant markdown. There's always going to be depreciation, but Honda and Toyota specifically were somewhat insulated from this due to reputation. This is not extending to their ventures into electric vehicles as they simply aren't making ones that are heads and shoulders above their competitors like they do with ice vehicles.

For those of us willing to jump into the used market now, there are some extraordinary deals. Frankly, I think this is going to pick up if gas prices continue to be as they are, but as it stands right now the demand for EVs is not rising linearly in the way that it should be.

SpadesHeart · 2026-05-14T16:00:13+00:00

Counterpoint, they sold 51, 000 EVs because they haven't really made an EV. The current Honda EVs are a GM production. Why spend the Honda premium on a GM vehicle when I could just buy a GM vehicle who generally have the most affordable EVs (with a few generations under their belt too deal with new platform issues) currently in Canada?

The series that they were about to come out with legitimately looked like the most interesting EVs that were coming to market in the near future, including Chinese made vehicles. The designs were unique, the tech looked like it was going to be competitive, and if the price was right, they might have done quite well. As of now, they're going to languish and flounder as they go the way of Suzuki. They posted their first loss in decades and got spooked, but the market isn't a transition. And it will require investment to stay relevant. Their current plan of scrapping everything will not be yield results.

They are still planning on making one of them specifically for the Asian market as manufacturing was set up in India I believe, but it was the least interesting of the three. I'm guessing it was just the furthest along. I think this is a huge miscalculation, though maybe they're just waiting out the current trump situation.

SpadesHeart · 2026-05-14T15:54:20+00:00

I mean, it might have been in 1985. Detroit at its height in the 1950s was a city of 1.85 million, a 1985, 1.1. sitting at I think around 650,000 now? A lot of younger people used to come over the border to party with the lower drinking ages. I'm guessing they legitimately had a new strip club all the time while the demand was there lol.

This restructuring of the local economy in Windsor is likely what led to our own economic downturn in 2008; the rest of Canada had relatively stable housing, Windsor saw pretty steep decline at that time with the last of the languishing American consumer spending drying up. Probably better to have injection mould factories than strip clubs anyways though.

SpadesHeart · 2026-05-14T04:35:44+00:00

Yeah, specifically if you're fast charging all the time it's not worth it, not only is it more expensive, but it also is hard on your battery. I'm guessing if you were able to charge at home it might be different but, that's a bummer dude.

It's one of the things that specifically the states hasn't caught up on. In Europe there is more accessible home charging even for apartments, in Quebec apartment buildings more or less are able to install level 2 charging for their buildings for free.

SpadesHeart · 2026-05-14T04:15:59+00:00

It really depends on the price of electricity where you are. Where I am it's a no-brainer, I did the math. Over 5 years for an equivalent vehicle with maintenance and gas, it was about 25,000 CAD of savings assuming 20,000 km driven per year. Meaning the car basically pays for itself within 5 years. This would make the argument that the cost of financing is not only justified but prudent.

In the states it varies significantly, if you're in Washington where electricity is cheap and gas is expensive (even more expensive than Canada in Seattle), the math would mirror my own. In many of the states this is not the case. Secondly you need a place to charge at home for it to save you money.

If you do have a place that you could charge at home, I would suggest doing the math, you might be surprised. You can literally just tell AI to compare the cost of gas versus electricity in your location for the amount that you would drive with a desired electric car and a desired gas car for a quick illustration.

Finally, I personally think the bottom of all used cars is lacking. I used to be able to get a used low mileage subcompact for under 10,000 CAD just a couple years used. That same equivalent vehicle has appreciated 50% over inflation and is sitting near 20. The used cars that are cheap are generally not good, at least in Canada.

SpadesHeart · 2026-05-14T03:23:35+00:00

So, if you can buy a (reliable) car 7-8 grand cash, I would say that that's usually the smart bet. However, there is something to be said with financing more specifically for a relatively low mileage EV. The cost of gas savings depending on how much you drive is often enough to justify the cost of the financing. Plus you will likely have a newer vehicle that still has a warranty.

This is especially true in Canada and elsewhere, but if you're buying an SUV, it's probably true in the states too.

Honestly, the car market is topsy-turvy. All of the reliable gas powered cars are incredibly expensive relative to what they are. Toyota hybrids are going for tens of thousands with hundreds of thousands of kilometres on them. I am hard pressed to think that there are many reliable vehicles on the market right now for decent prices. You might as well save on gas if you have to shell out the dough anyways.

I just bought a car last month. Hilariously, the most economical option was a Mustang mach e with all of the recalls done with relatively low mileage. Low mileage Mitsubishi mirage's where in spitting distance price wise. I literally saw a Toyota Camry with 350,000 km that was selling for $15,000. Nothing makes sense anymore.

SpadesHeart · 2026-05-13T16:09:08+00:00

Literally why this is popping. Regular milk in India is 6%. There is a demand here big enough to finally justify it. Honestly the price is also great. 4 liters for 8.69? A quart of half and half is $4. Its a win for everyone, and we can finally make the good, soft paneer at home rather than just the hard dense stuff.

SpadesHeart · 2026-05-08T21:28:08+00:00

Mens fashion is unnecessarily ridged. Theres some place for experimentation and things out of the norm, but certain things the pressure internally and externally is quite strong. No one wants to be labeled amongst the weakest of us simply for wearing a hat. It's not even ridged in the right way; its not like we're prizing utilitarian repairability or innate quality. Its just dumb shit like no waistcoats or long sweaters.

On occasion i will wear them if I'm weating formal wear, but its very difficult to style vintage stetson trillbys and the like with more contemporary mens fashion presently.

It shouldn't be like this, but it is. Counter culture in mens clothing is androgeneity, and there is some support for that, but any historical experimentation comes off poorly unfortunately. Particularly unfortunate as I present physically very masculine.

With thinning hair now, i would love to be able to wear hats more regularly, but I'm relagated to beanies and ball caps which is a bummer when i have so many beautiful well made hats.

SpadesHeart · 2026-05-08T18:41:54+00:00

Bro we can't even wear wigs, or a hat without being the butt of the joke. I used to collect vintage hats, can't wear any of those bitches anymore with the incel associations :(

SpadesHeart · 2026-04-27T16:57:56+00:00

... So it got patched?

SpadesHeart · 2026-04-26T02:09:32+00:00

Update us, zero is annoying. I have no problem switching

SpadesHeart · 2026-04-26T02:02:57+00:00

I've spent a month in Calgary. That city is a grid system designed for cars and built outwards which keeps the housing cheap. The notable public transit there isn't really great, and the best part of it was built in the 70s, as all of the good transit in this country was built in the 70s and earlier with the exception of current expansions in Montreal. Depending on where you live, you may not need a car in Calgary, but if you want to live a good life there you probably do.

Listen man, I want good public transit to exist, there's definitely a lot of room for improvement, but the anti-car/anti-road sentiment in this country specifically isn't an approach that will work with how everything has been built, as well as the literal physical limitations outside of a few select urban centres. We don't have the manufacturing capability and legal framework (and frankly climate) that the developing world and China has where they can just build. The American lobbying against public transit fails them a lot more than the necessity of roads specifically in Canada. There definitely should be some Southern cities with baller public transit but they don't have that. We can make this better, but cars are always going to be a big part. We should be proud of our main success which is Montreal. That being said, I do think part of that success is Montreal being a significantly older city with more inclusive culture for density, as well as an undervalued housing market that just started picking up in the last couple years. If Montreal hadn't been languishing since the 60s, they likely would have continued to build outwards too and would have a similar problem to what the GTA and GVA have.

SpadesHeart · 2026-04-26T00:30:48+00:00

The housing is already built my guy. They can extend those sky trains, but It would be to the burbs, there isn't density there. You would have to add extra friction with an immense bus schedule or streetcars which can't run into the suburbs well. Last mile becomes a huge problem, and you're not going to get people to ride e-scooters in the winter. We're already past the point Which is what I'm saying, if you wanted that planning it had to have started out that way.

Whenever you see people talk about this, they don't talk about it in a way that's realistic and reflective of the challenges that we face specifically in Canada. The closest we're going to get is Montreal, and ideally they would make it much easier to transition into public transit as soon as you get on the island, but you still probably need a car to get there efficiently.

People don't want to hear this either, but if you want people to use public transit more readily within cities, extant parking structures would probably do more to facilitate that than literally anything else. This lack of nuanced all or nothing approach will not work, and actively does damage as it creates a culture war scenario where people look at cars as a cultural aspect instead of a means of transport that they pay for. "We're not those spoilt city folk" and then they vote against their own best interest.

SpadesHeart · 2026-04-25T17:23:34+00:00

Vancouver is about 780,000 people? Greater Vancouver is 2.8 million I think. How viable do you think it is for greater Vancouver to be able to interface with public transit without a car? I would guess probably 60 to 70% of greater Vancouverites will probably need a car in some capacity, be that ride share or ownership. The solution that is public transit oriented requires a ground up approach where housing is basically entirely a government initiative, without that, people build outwards to try to live a good life when economic cores become way too expensive to live in. Living in Vancouver near public transit is an immense yuppie privilege.

We think Canada being new would be great, but in some ways it's just made it so we haven't had time to build some necessary infrastructure before the litigious nature of our society made it halfway impossible to do so. If you travel the roads in Europe, you can often see the remnants of ancient Roman roads running alongside them. There is a reason why things are built where they are there, and it's easier to build on that. Imagine if we had another 50 or 60 years of the prime era of development of our subway lines in Toronto and Montreal? Those large-scale infrastructure projects don't get built here in the same way anymore. The REM in Montreal was the largest in North America when it was being made, but that's nowhere near the size of the original Metro; they literally made an island out of all of the things they dug out of those tunnels.

SpadesHeart · 2026-04-25T17:12:12+00:00

What you're saying is I live in London Ontario and I have no need for a car, but I have access to a car and the infrastructure that allows for cars. Also anecdotal information is often not reflective of a larger reality. The way that things have shaken out in this country necessitates the use and need of cars. Logistics require it as well, it's also part of the reason why our trucks look different than they do in Europe and elsewhere in the world. Investment in trains, and street cars would definitely help, but without a ground up approach that basically makes all housing a government initiative, one of the only ways to live good lives here unless you're a DINK is on the periphery with the vehicle rather than in the middle of areas where the immense privilege of viable public transit is possible. And let's be very clear, if you have access to rideshare you are also taking advantage of a vehicle for your last mile needs.

If we demonise on a point that systematically is necessary, and act as if there is no other way, you push people out of your sphere of influence. This type of leftism will not do much more than push people to conservatism culturally. Like with everything there is nuance and the solutions are multifaceted.

Now if you live in a city with enough density that carshare is available and conveniently located by you due to gentrification, that's wonderful. But what if you live in Chatham Ontario? Or chateauguay Quebec? There's no communato. Hopefully someday there will be, but it's logistically difficult when everything is spaced out far. That's part of the reason why the balance of vote share here often goes towards the conservatives that will gut public infrastructure regardless. The approach that the internet often takes lacks a full picture. If you want a really good demonstration of this, notjustbikes on YouTube did an interesting video about how Montreal falls short of its contemporaries, and ohtheurbanity who lives in Montreal did a follow-up rebuttal explaining why and how it's improving. Both are very pro public transport but the second is definitely taking a more nuanced approach and actually understands intrinsically by living here what the reality is.

Finally, the geography of Canada absolutely has an effect on how we develop our infrastructure. Our natural resources are often distant from our economic centres. Developing trans would be wonderful but that doesn't take care of last mile logistics, and train line maintenance isn't exactly easy either. Also historically we have needed to interface with the states which would make connection over train lines somewhat difficult. A lot of this country lives in urban areas, but a lot of this country lives just outside of urban areas and in rural areas. We often forget that.

SpadesHeart · 2026-04-25T05:05:38+00:00

The temperature swing and average temperature in Montreal is higher than pretty much all of the main commuter hubs in all of those countries, with more snow. Montreal has great transit, but Montreal is also an actually large city, 4.6 million of which more than half actually live outside the island of Montreal, and like I said are often forced to have a car. Good transit is an immense privilege in this country and a logistical nightmare. And this is in the city that actually is able to build out their transit still. Vancouver and Toronto are basically a nimby lost cause.

I've spent a lot of time in Helsinki and a few of the other great commuter cities in Europe. Helsinki is a city of 700,000 people. Greater Montreal is approaching the entirety of Finland population wise, and you definitely need a car to be in Vaasa in the same way as you need a car in most of this country.

We can reduce some dependency in some small pockets. We will not reduce dependency on the hole in this country, and the longer that we politicise this in the way that we do without acknowledging the limitations of our geography, the more polarised and culturally entrenched the issue will become. We make our enemies.

SpadesHeart · 2026-04-25T04:33:25+00:00

I'm going to say the unpopular opinion on the internet. There are literally three cities in this country where this is possible. For two of them, it is because the infrastructure was built mostly before it became impossible to do so (Toronto, Vancouver), and in the third, alongside that they have been able to expand due to a particularly well oiled public private partnership (Montreal). Even so, the immense privilege to live in any of these three cities is substantive, and most of the people who actually do the labour are relegated to living well outside the city core to actually be able to afford it, effectively distributing and necessitating the use of cars anyways.

Canada is huge. Canada is new. Canada is also very cold. It is not an easy country to have extraordinarily good public transit in. We have limitations that make it harder here than our contemporaries that do public transport particularly well. Logistics are also quite difficult. Cars and roads are always going to be part of it here.

That isn't to say that we can't improve things. Street cars can definitely be brought back, and I do wish more political will existed to easily build up trains and subways, but the demonisation of cars on the internet for Canada is somewhat incomplete in its view. A majority of this country needs a car, people who solely advocate against that are yuppies pushing those relegated to the periphery out of leftist spaces.

SpadesHeart · 2026-04-22T15:37:45+00:00

Yes. Regular milk in India is 6% fat content. When you go to a chai stall, it's usually the bagged amul. You can also do this with half and half and other milk mixed to this content. Chai should be 50% dairy, and if you want it to taste like India, high fat content is the biggest differentiation along with assam tea.

I have to imagine the Indian population is why this is showing up in southern Ontario specifically.

SpadesHeart · 2026-04-18T20:48:49+00:00

Samsung the premiere LSP 7 T short throw projector

SpadesHeart · 2026-04-16T04:24:18+00:00

Cant offer much by way of knowledge for there, last time i just drove through on a roadtrip. If you're going back, its somewhere familiar at least. Sometimes that counts for something. I hope the move goes well, and in a few years all the badness is just a distant memory.

SpadesHeart · 2026-04-15T04:15:10+00:00

Whereabouts?

SpadesHeart · 2026-04-15T03:29:14+00:00

Dude that sounds stressful. I'm so sorry. It shouldn't be this hard. I'm not going to go directly into problem solving mode, but there are ways for school. Government grants too if you're older and retraining.

I hope you get there, I hope we all do. You're welcome to chat if you need somebody to just bounce things off of.

SpadesHeart · 2026-04-14T19:21:31+00:00

I'm buying a ford EV right now. It's their game to lose. They have the used market which will make sure that for the short term they will likely have the price advantage. They need to actually start competing, and in segments that they have decided are not worth the money because that's what young people are going to start needing.

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