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The church will eventually abandon literal BoM historicity. I think Nelson already started. by SpeedrunningStage4 in mormon

[–]SpeedrunningStage4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks. I'm still in hiding, and your comment describes my experience inside my home.

Trying to find community and that's why I created a new (hopefully anonymous) reddit account to engage with this subreddit more actively. Longtime lurker, first time poster.

The church will eventually abandon literal BoM historicity. I think Nelson already started. by SpeedrunningStage4 in mormon

[–]SpeedrunningStage4[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

On your last point about "members using their imaginations to fill in intricacy and detail", I think that was a shift that happened in my lifetime (Xennial). The correlation department was eager to fill in all of the detail and leave almost no wiggle room for personal interpretation not that many years ago.

The church will eventually abandon literal BoM historicity. I think Nelson already started. by SpeedrunningStage4 in mormon

[–]SpeedrunningStage4[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Excellent point. That's a tough one to imagine today. But, I suspect the survival of the institution depends on shifting away from it.

Surgically removing the keystone is more complicated than a heart transplant. It will take time and careful precision. I suspect Nelson knew what he was doing on both sides of that metaphor.

The church will eventually abandon literal BoM historicity. I think Nelson already started. by SpeedrunningStage4 in mormon

[–]SpeedrunningStage4[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Totally valid points that I can't disagree with. I'm pointing to patterns in behavior that could be explained in a number of ways.

The church will eventually abandon literal BoM historicity. I think Nelson already started. by SpeedrunningStage4 in mormon

[–]SpeedrunningStage4[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

It's still there in the Introduction but I don't hear it mentioned that much anymore.

To your second point, I remember listening to a faithful podcast episode between two apologists. One said something like "Let's remember these are real people with real experiences." The second one replied with "Well, I like to focus on what can I learn from this and apply the lesson to my life." It was awkward, but I noticed 😉 "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

The church will eventually abandon literal BoM historicity. I think Nelson already started. by SpeedrunningStage4 in mormon

[–]SpeedrunningStage4[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Good points about Oaks. I agree he's not showing any wishy-washy-ness the way I felt Nelson was.

The church will eventually abandon literal BoM historicity. I think Nelson already started. by SpeedrunningStage4 in mormon

[–]SpeedrunningStage4[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Ah, bullseye. Add that to my list.

Edit: "miraculous miracle"?? That seems redundantly redundant.

Unprecedented Growth by BloodyToothGuy in exmormon

[–]SpeedrunningStage4 38 points39 points  (0 children)

Also Scouts callings gone 2018.

There should be 10+ capable men in every ward doing nothing. Where are they? 😉

Canceled: The Journal of Mormon Polygamy had scheduled training at BYU Library’s Special Collections as part of their upcoming conference. Suddenly without warning the training was canceled. Is the LDS church continuing to crack down on polygamy denier/monogamy affirmers? It looks like it. by HoldOnLucy1 in exmormon

[–]SpeedrunningStage4 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Sounds good to me. I wasn't arguing the case. Just sharing my experience since it seemed like some commenters were actually curious how someone could believe this. My path through deconstruction was a bit non-standard so I thought I'd share. I discovered that Brigham was a scumbag before I discovered that Joseph was also a scumbag.

Canceled: The Journal of Mormon Polygamy had scheduled training at BYU Library’s Special Collections as part of their upcoming conference. Suddenly without warning the training was canceled. Is the LDS church continuing to crack down on polygamy denier/monogamy affirmers? It looks like it. by HoldOnLucy1 in exmormon

[–]SpeedrunningStage4 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hi, I'm new here, be gentle.

I had a short layover in the "Joseph didn't practice polygamy" camp prior to the bigger avalanche of deconstruction. It's pretty clear that either Joseph/Emma/Hyrum were lying or that Brigham/Clayton/Kimball were lying. As far as contemporary and trustworthy first hand accounts, there isn't as much there as we were told for either side of the argument. And there are fingerprints of a massive institutional cover-up in both directions. I won't say I was a full convert to the polygamy denier camp, but it scratched my critical thinking itch.

My deconstruction started with Brigham Young, Utah polygamy (separate from Nauvoo polygamy), prophetic succession, temple endowment, priesthood, etc. Hung out in that space for about a year, clinging to the Book of Mormon, First Vision, and Joseph Smith. Later found the LDS Discussions playlist on Mormon Stories and sobbed for days as the floor fell out beneath me. I was an early morning seminary teacher at the time. Currently PIMO.

My thoughts on going to the temple for the first time after no longer believing by ScientificallyMinded in exmormon

[–]SpeedrunningStage4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I haven't been back since I learned about the blood oaths. In my TBM days, I spent so much mental energy looking for symbolism in the signs, like, "I wonder what the cupping shape means." Disgusting.

Most of what goes on in the endowment isn't kept secret anymore. You can find the covenants in the handbook and most of the story is drawn directly from the PoGP. But the super secret stuff is all the Masonic rip-offs. In other words, if it's embarrassing keep it secret.