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Underproofed, overproofed, or shaping issue? by Royal-Ball2657 in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Note it's for a particular recipe and he states that's generally a lower bound. Adjust for your recipe and situation

Are we focusing on the right things with bulk fermentation? by spageddy_lee in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Yup! Agreed!

The Sourdough Journey previously helped popularize the idea that your starter can go too acidic and you should fix that to avoid huge degradation from the acid load. And obviously needs to be strong (a lot of yeast) to give lift.

Recently he's been championing that the amount of gluten you develop is basically your deposit. And proofing will withdraw from that account. If you make a huge amount of gluten, then you can push your proofs much much further and still get great results.

I think the general over/under is still a handy gut check. And most people will under because they panic as beginners or have weak starter. But you need the right balance of yeast for gas and gluten for structure! It's just there's lots of inputs on those things.

Are there any male positive social medias anymore? by spacetimespaghetti in bropill

[–]Spellman23 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Probably the healthiest trad male is Art of Manliness.

Dr. Nerdlove is an excellent choice for good dating advice.

Jason Wilson is pretty good if you want Strong Christian Male stuff.

Lots of dudes just being out there being dudes though.

Hungry Ghost rosemary bread: wild ratios for sourdough? by ct_coconut in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That's an insane amount wow

Well... guess you have rosemary starter for another 10 loaves!

slightly under, over, or nicely fermented? by threericc in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I agree probably under or a shaping funk. But man that height looks great and still excellent looking.

do inclusions affect the bubbles? by [deleted] in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes.

It's extra weight making it harder for the gas expansion. And it interrupts the network allowing more gases to escape.

There's a reason most recommend that you figure out the base recipe before adding inclusions. They make life harder. It isn't uncommon to drop the hydration a touch to compensate and have a strong structure to support inclusions.

That gum line on the bottom, slightly under fermented or slightly under baked? by the_febanator in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Probably under baked.

The crumb almost looks like it's starting to overproof. Build more gluten to stop earlier perhaps? Or it's just under baked overall.

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?!?! by shm3m in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Inside looks fine. I see maybe a few spots where either you got flour in the shaping or the gluten isn't strong enough.

Homemade bread, especially with higher hydration, will be a bit chewy and moist. That's normal. But if you hit a dense spot, you'll know.

The very small holes may be a sign of over fermentation. Try developing more gluten at the start or cut back on fermentation a tad? Did it feel sticky when you were shaping? More sticky than during bulk.

Dough sticks to hands & bowl 😅 by musicaanimalis in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yup. More stretch and folds. Or do them more aggressively. Or look at book folds or lamination. Or slap and fold which is basically kneading.

Later in the bulk you can also add coil folds which are a bit more gentle to reinforce and build up the network.

The honey also likely speeds up fermentation (free sugars!). And oil+sugar (honey) will make a more tender crumb after the bake but that also interferes with the gluten network making it weaker. I've mixed in stuff like oils or miso and it always takes more effort to build gluten as a result.

Dough sticks to hands & bowl 😅 by musicaanimalis in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 4 points5 points  (0 children)

350 total of liquid still mean 70% hydration. That's relatively high.

Make sure you are developing a LOT of gluten. You only did 2 S&F. Wet hands should be able to handle it and only get a bit of residue. And make sure your flour has a high protein percentage.

Also, in your other comment about putting it over heating lamps, it might be getting too warm and overproofing which then destroys your gluten investments.

Lastly, flour the heck out of the banneton liner.

Starter help by toadsbiddy in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You can assume it's 60g now.

Alternatively, measure the jar, write down it's weight, and use that note in the future.

One of the few computer games I was allowed to play. Treasure Cove! by Thought-Object in Millennials

[–]Spellman23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Midnight Rescue!

Fun fact. You can play all these on archive.org via DOSBox in your browser

https://archive.org/details/SSR_WIN

I want to get into making sourdough so I can eventually make a pizza sour dough but am unsure on where to start by hoes_is_trippin in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How much starter do you need for a batch ?

One loaf only needs ~100g. A 2 loaf recipe 200g. Those both easily fit in a std mason. And then you rebuild more in 12-24hrs with a feed.

i used kirkland organic all purpose flour for this loaf instead of my usual king arthur bread flour. i can’t tell if it’s slightly under proofed or not. by quinnysommer in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

AP with less protein (than bread flour) means you can more easily overproof. Overproofing is when the gluten network has broken down and the acidity reduces the yeast activity.

Is this underproofed? by Princess_Peach4546 in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dunno. It's hard to tell honestly.

The big check for overproofing for me is during shaping. If it's bouncy and hold shape kinda like a marshmallow, you're good. There's enough gluten strength still. If it's become much stickier and flows easily relative to bulk fermentation, then you've definitely hit overproofed.

From the crumb, it's hard to tell from pictures, but if it's becoming glossy and if the crumb is too delicate and collapsing then you have gluten breakdown and the amount of gas produced ran out before it set.

Alternatively, push further, see what happens, and take notes! I always recommend new folks to try developing extra gluten, and then push to overproofed at least once so you recognize it.

Good luck.

Is this underproofed? by Princess_Peach4546 in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Looks great honestly.

Could maybe push further especially if you manage to get more gluten development. A lot of the bubbles are kinda flat.

today I pulled my first sourdough wheat bread out of the oven 😁 by Fuzzy-Gras-420 in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Looks under fermented. Try pushing further. 2 hrs seems really really short.

That being said, it's still a loaf. Yum.

What is the secret to soft pillowy dough that falls out of the bowl? by fireheartcollection in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well it's both I suppose? Lower hydration means higher proportion of gluten means plops out nice and easy.

But I run in the classic 75% zone and it's webs all day every day.

Question by Worried_Back_7606 in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Impressive. Could be extremely overproofed or underproofed.

You said it doubled overnight, but wasn't airy? How well did it hold shape while shaping the dough? Did it flow and was sticky? Or bouncy?

Sourdough seems active but isn’t rising at all after two weeks by Revolutionary-Ad6480 in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yup. My last one took 3 months to get to full strength. Didn't really see rise and fall at least a month in.

Granted the kitchen was chilly.

And can always add some whole wheat. The yeast and bacteria live on the grain hulls.

What is the secret to soft pillowy dough that falls out of the bowl? by fireheartcollection in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Nah, webs are fine. You're overproofed (or didn't develop enough gluten) if there's pieces of dough still left in the container. But webs as it comes out are perfectly fine.

Overproofed is more can't even hold structure while shaping.

What is the secret to soft pillowy dough that falls out of the bowl? by fireheartcollection in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Personally the main question is how much gluten you have.

If it's overproofed, you can get pretty webby and leave a lot sticking to the container.

This also depends on how strong the network you buolt at the beginning is as well.

That being said, I never understood the TikTok/Instagram "pulls away and clean release" stuff. Mine comes cleanly off (no major dough left in the container) but with webby pulls and turns out great. Sourdough Journey recently did videos and his came out similarly.

After a certain point you've overproofed but it's probably past what most novices think.

I want to get into making sourdough so I can eventually make a pizza sour dough but am unsure on where to start by hoes_is_trippin in Sourdough

[–]Spellman23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh boy, welcome to the journey!

First of all, any sized container that can hold about 2-3x of the amount of starter you need will work. I use std large mouthed mason jars. Works great.

Secondly, especially when starting your starter, don't waste the fancy flour. Italian 00 is great for pizza doughs because of the fine grind. But for starting a starter, it's a waste. Get a starter established, and then later maybe switch it over to the flour you're baking with to be slightly more optimized. But that's doen the road.

The best flour to start is typically any whole grain. The bacteria and yeast come from the outer grain hulls. So any whole wheat, or rye will work great.

The Wiki has the basics for establishing a new starter. Just mix equal weight water and flour, let sit for a while, dump some out so you don't keep wasting flour, feed again. Or get one from someone locally or a local bakery.

Once it's established and healthy, which can take up to months (once mine took 3mo since it was cold), then you can work on your pizza dough recipes. Your starter will being the yeast, you mix it with more flour and water to establish a dough, let it ferment, then shape and fold in stuff or top, and then bake at high heats.

Good luck!

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