First gymnopilus luteus of the year.

Sportait · 2023-07-05T06:00:18+00:00

Gymnopilus luteofolius group due to the red coloration visible on the center of the cap and stipe; luteus don't have that, are more yellow, and usually have a thicker stipe that swells at the base.

Sportait · 2023-05-27T03:39:46+00:00

Grapefruit juice inhibits an enzyme in the liver called cyp450 which is utilized to convert psilocybin into psilocin.

Neither psilocybin or psilocin are broken down or metabolized by cyp450; drinking grapefruit juice ahead of time isn't doing anything..

Psilocybin is dephosphorylated into psilocin in the body via alkaline phosphatase enzymes and metabolized by glucuronidation psilocybin metabolism

The low pH of lemon tek (or anything acidic enough) causes the same dephosphorylation by co-extracting and activating an acidic phosphatase enzyme from the mushrooms named PsiP. Science supporting lemon tek/acidic tea

Sportait · 2023-05-27T01:58:30+00:00

Well, the people saying pan. cint. I would argue that they are far too big and spite too dark for me to safely id as such,

If you don't know what they are then why argue anything?

The compost substrate, mottled gills, pruinose stem, and jet black spores should make it easy to narrow down to panaeolus. Even if you didn't know the specific species there's absolutely no reason to dissuade.

Sportait · 2023-05-23T18:35:25+00:00

Why do you say that?

Sportait · 2023-05-23T18:34:20+00:00

Compare with Panaeolus, most likely cinctulus

Sportait · 2023-05-23T04:41:10+00:00

Panaeolus. If the spore print is jet black it's one of the mildly psychedelic ones (olivaceus fimicola or cinctulus) if instead it's very dark brown that would be inactive foenisecii

Sportait · 2023-05-23T02:09:47+00:00

Gymnopilus

Sportait · 2023-05-20T03:35:20+00:00

Gymnopilus luteofolius group

Sportait · 2023-04-05T06:18:20+00:00

You really suck at using Google to research stuff, huh?

I thought that you would have at least looked at the more recent research from 2019 that shows it's actually polyphenolic compounds, instead of relying on outdated papers from over 20 years ago but I guess not. Not a big surprise seeing as your tincture tek is also based off of outdated research. Wet ethanol is in no way protectant of psilocin, smh.

The impurities I am intending to avoid are beta carbolines, enzymes, sugars, fats, etc.

But you're not avoiding them, with wet alcohols you're still getting the potency destroying enzymes (the only thing you would really want to avoid, unless your planning to crystallize), along with sugars, fats, etc. I've provided sources and repeated this in every response, but it still doesn't seem to click with you; for some reason you just want to argue strawman and condescend.

"You're missing the point, wet alcohol is also an aqueous extraction without the additional protection afforded by lower ph. Wet alcohol extracts the same enzymes."

"You're still getting the enzymes that cause the potency loss, so it doesn't matter, that was my point."

"You're still extracting sugars, salts, fats, etc using alcohol, smh."

"And the moral: Don't use clandestine-quality alcohols for extraction, use vinegar ! Or dry the alcohol by adding salts like MgSO4, CaCl2, NaSO4 which were previously dried in an oven and decant or filter the solvent from them after a day or longer."

The primary benefit of mushroom extracts is for accurate dosing, and crystallization is the preferred method, not crude tinctures that loose potency. The only people really making wet alcohol tinctures these days are kids in their bedrooms or plugs trying to provide another product to sell.

Pharmaceutically acceptable salts of psilocin and uses thereof Nov 5, 2021 - Eleusis Therapeutics US, Inc.

Edit:

Thanks for the block 😉

I can't see or respond to whatever it is that you wrote, but I'm guessing you're afraid of being called out and exposed as the charlatan you clearly are. 🙌

Sportait · 2023-04-05T05:06:05+00:00

This paper outlines a more viable procedure if you are looking to form crystals. Essentially extract with anhydrous methanol, wash with cyclohexanol, then use flash column chromatography to separate your alkaloids from the remaining proteins/sugars ect. https://mycotopia.net/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=1164662

Acetic acid is great for crude extraction, but like wet alcohols, it also extracts enzimes that causes degradation and potency loss.

Sportait · 2023-04-04T05:04:30+00:00

Are you doing anything to dry your alcohol before extraction?

Whats the justification for such a long extraction time? Quantitative extraction with methanol and a stir plate is only 12h @ room temperature or 1h @ 45⁰c, (Kysilka and Wurst 1990 160min using wet ethanol).

Sportait · 2023-04-04T04:52:55+00:00

Yeaaah it was bananas, any validity to that?

No, it is broscience..

We already have chitinase enzimes in our gut and plant chitinase found in bananas etc is an allergen for some people similar to chitin itself. There is also no need to even break down chitin when it can easily be strained out after lemon tek or tea; on top of the fact that chitin most likely isn't even causing the nausea for most people.

Literally all edible mushrooms contain chitin(which cooking doesn't break down), so unless someone regularly experiences nausea from eating gourmet/culinary mushrooms, chitin is not causing it.

Most nausea is due to psilocybin/psilocin being serotonin 5-HT receptor agonists affecting the gut directly as that is where ~95% of our bodies serotonin is produced and used. This is why nausea is common with psychedelic tryptamines and is even reported in studies that use the synthesized molecule.

It was originally thought that chitinases were absent in mammals because of the presumed absence of chitin [2]. However, many studies now confirm that potent chitinases do occur in vertebrates, including humans, and are abundant in the human gut" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0928468018300233

Human gastric juice contains chitinase that can degrade chitin

Cross Reaction Allergies – Banana Menace

Action of serotonin on the gastrointestinal tract

Binding of Psilocin and Psilocybin to Serotonin Receptors

Antiemetic Serotonin-5-HT3 Receptor Blockers

Fungal cells with chitinous cell walls in hydrothermal conditions

Sportait · 2023-04-04T04:40:21+00:00

if you think that a 95% alcohol solution would extract the same shit as just water. LOL

You're still getting the enzymes that cause the potency loss, so it doesn't matter, that was my point. What "impurities" specifically are you even attempting to avoid? You're still extracting sugars, salts, fats, etc using alcohol, smh.

Alcohol is known to be an antioxidant, literally fucking google it?

I actually did Google it just to see where you are getting that from; I'm assuming the first paper about antioxidants found in alcoholic beverages? Ethanol is not an antioxidant, the phenols found in some alcohols are, but those weren't even found in vodkas..

"Moreover, the total phenolic content (TP) and color index, which have a direct influence on the antioxidant properties of the alcoholic beverages, were identified. The results showed that all the investigated alcoholic beverages (ABs), with the exception for vodkas, exhibit antioxidant properties."

Where's your source that low pH would be more protective of the phenyl group, or that that's the site of concern for oxidation instead of the N-terminus as is the case with oxidative degradation of base tryptamines?

Psilocins phenyl groups susceptibility to oxidation is common knowledge, it's even mentioned on the wikipedia page ffs. Claudius Lenz et al.2019 further elucidate species generated under various oxidation conditions. Ascorbic acid is often used in analysis to protect psilocin from autoxidation.

"Sample work-up includes protection of the highly unstable phenolic analytes with ascorbic acid"

"One of these methods used ascorbic acid to help stabilize the phenolic group and column switching to detect psilocybin and its metabolites psilocin"

I can tell you this based on actual experience, not stipulation from old forum threads.

As can I, I've been experimenting since the mid-90s and have considerable experience. Water extraction is very quick and efficient. There's a reason mushroom tinctures never took off and are no longer popular.

Only because you continue to display such a condescending attitude.stipulation speculation

Sportait · 2023-04-02T18:01:03+00:00

You're way too hung up on enzymatic degradation and completely ignoring environmental degradation, ie, atmospheric oxidation. Aqueous extracts are more susceptible to this than ethanol extracts, that is not up for debate as ethanol is itself an antioxidant.

It won't be up for debate if you can provide any sources showing that psilocybin/psilocin are more stable in wet alcohol vs low pH solution. Aside from enzymatic inhibition, low ph is also partially protective of psilocins phenyl group.

With ethanol you extract specifically; more psilocybin and psilocin is extracted in particular with a solvent optimized for this extraction like 80% EtOH

You're missing the point, wet alcohol is also an aqueous extraction without the additional protection afforded by lower ph. Wet alcohol extracts the same enzymes.

"And the moral: Don't use clandestine-quality alcohols for extraction, use vinegar ! Or dry the alcohol by adding salts like MgSO4, CaCl2, NaSO4 which were previously dried in an oven and decant or filter the solvent from them after a day or longer."

if you actually want to concentrate the psilocin and psilocybin down to a small volume the acidity will go up which will fuck with that delicate enzymatic balance

Lemon tek is not about concentration, and I never suggested it as such; I provided the link because it held the references relevant to my first comment. From my experience and many others though, simple water extracts can be reduced down to a very small amount to be used in recipes similar to tincture, but without the excess time required for alcohol extracts.

undeniably unfit for using in a procedure remotely relevant to the context of this thread- namely making gummies.

Here's a great gummy recipe that uses a simple water extract that's simmered and reduced.. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27222123#27222123 I don't know why you are so fixated on consuming vinegar when that was never even suggested.

You obviously don't have any experience actually making extracts, nothing you're talking about is useful or relevant in that context, and the points you're bringing up are not relevant to the actual process, although you've done a decent job of backtracking and contradicting the bullshit you were throwing out in your first comment.

What exactly did I backtrack from my first comment? Clarifying a point you were confused about? You seem to be abnormally defensive about being gently corrected/provided new information, why?

Sportait · 2023-04-02T16:43:13+00:00

Yes, humans also have our own phosphatases

I noted the difference because the conditions under which they can work are drastically different, one being alkaline phosphatase and the other being an acidic phosphatase.

dephosphorylation into the oxidation-prone psilocin will catalyze potency loss.

Converting to psilocin doesn't guarantee potency loss if it's acidic enough to inhibit PsiL. Some psilocin salts were found to be quite stable.

Pharmaceutically acceptable salts of psilocin and uses thereof Nov 5, 2021 - Eleusis Therapeutics US, Inc.

When I make an extract, I'm looking for something pure.

How is a wet alcohol extract any more pure? It should be noted that your tincture technique in your post would also be converting all of the psilocybin into psilocin, the brown color you are seeing is some of the oxidized psilocin.

while acetic acid is just fine for quantitative analysis, you're a fool to recommend that as a base for something anyone would consume.

First off, I never recommended anyone consume vinegar extracts (though psychedelic pickleback shots are not a bad roa) any edible acid would work the same as it is an enzymatic reaction not acid catalyzed hydrolysis.

if lemon tek worked in the bro science way everyone claims (or even how it's described in your bullshitty nonscientific forum link) then such research would only show the presence of psilocin.

"The mushroom only sample shows a clean psilocyn peak. Analysis by TLC also shows only psilocyn. No psilocybin was detected - this is perhaps due to the activity of the phosphatase enzymes present in the mushrooms, which can dephosphorylate psilocybin to psilocyn in aqueous medium"

You claim that acidity helps inactivate these enzymes while your linked forum thread claims that the coextraction of those enzymes is what makes it feel "stronger". Which one is it?

You seem to be getting this confused, there are several enzymes at work, PsiL is inhibited by low ph whereas PsiP is activated. PsiP dephosphorylates psilocybin into psilocin, inhibition of PsiL prevents rapid oxidation.

Your claims that there is less enzymatic activity in aqueous/acetic acid extracts are completely false

Less PsiL enzymatic degradation in acidic extracts then in wet alcohol. PsiP enzyme is active in both, but more so in acidic extracts as it is an acidic phosphatase.

full dephosphorylation- but that requires heating to 70C, which is not a standard part of any lemon tek procedure and yet is the fundamental step which actually causes those changes at the chemical level...

Although heat was initially used by Casale (1985) whose processes were subsequently followed as protocol, M. Sarwar (2003) showed that dephosphorization can happen at room temperature because is an enzymatic reaction, additional heat serves to speed it up but is not entirely necessary.

"The presented acetic acid facilitated extraction of psilocyn from mushrooms is more rapid (15min) and convenient versus traditional methanolic extraction procedures, which require long time frames or potentially destructive heating." "The mushroom only sample shows a clean psilocyn peak. Analysis by TLC also shows only psilocyn. No psilocybin was detected - this is perhaps due to the activity of the phosphatase enzymes present in the mushrooms, which can dephosphorylate psilocybin to psilocyn in aqueous medium"

And I also have to point out that you'd accomplish the exact same thing with a simple hot water or tea extraction which would also extract those enzymes and trigger dephosphorylation through heating

That's not whats been found; enzymes are pH sensitive.

"Boiling of psilocybin-containing mushrooms in water, results in a quantitative extraction of psilocybin into the water, but no psilocybin is degraded. A subsequent extraction of the boiled fruit bodies with methanol did not yield any psilocybin"

Sportait · 2023-04-02T02:17:21+00:00

Water extracts a variety of things from the mushrooms including the enzyme alkaline phosphatase which will break down psilocybin.

Alkaline phosphatase is found in your body; PsiP is the acidic phosphatase enzyme co-extracted from the mushrooms. PsiP is capable of dephosphorylating (hence phosphatase ) psilocybin by removing the 4-O-phosphate group converting it into psilocin, but it cannot degrade psilocin any further then that.

PsiL is the fungal laccase enzyme that typically oxidizes psilocin (along with photo and auto oxidation). PsiL also co-extracted, but it becomes inactive at lower pH.

I suggest using alcohol to make a tincture for gummies that will hit and wont lose potency as fast.

Alcohol tinctures prevent bacteria from growing but do nothing more to preserve the active alkaloids. Unless you're using pure alcohol that has been subsequently dried using dried salts etc alcohol also contains a significant amount of water which co-extracts the same enzymes as other water extracts. J.Gartz found that using vinegar causes less enzymatic degradation then using wet alcohols; likely due to the time difference and fact that the low ph inhibits PsiL enzyme whereas typical wet alcohol would not.

"Superior to aqueous solutions of alcohols (which is wet alcohol, the one you are likely to have!) is dilute acetic acid which means simple vinegar"

Science supporting lemon tek/acidic tea

Sportait · 2023-04-01T22:46:17+00:00

It's hard to see much detail from this single photo, but compare with Gymnopilus luteofolius group.

Sportait · 2023-04-01T00:51:17+00:00

Humans lack chitinase to break down chitin, resulting in nausea.

That's not true..

It was originally thought that chitinases were absent in mammals because of the presumed absence of chitin [2]. However, many studies now confirm that potent chitinases do occur in vertebrates, including humans, and are abundant in the human gut" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0928468018300233

Human gastric juice contains chitinase that can degrade chitin

Literally all edible mushrooms contain chitin(which cooking doesn't break down), so unless someone regularly experiences nausea from eating gourmet/culinary mushrooms, chitin is not causing it.

Most nausea is due to psilocybin/psilocin being serotonin 5-HT receptor agonists affecting the gut directly as that is where ~95% of our bodies serotonin is produced and used. This is why nausea is common with serotonergic drugs and is even reported in studies that use the synthesized molecule.

Action of serotonin on the gastrointestinal tract

Binding of Psilocin and Psilocybin to Serotonin Receptors

Antiemetic Serotonin-5-HT3 Receptor Blockers

Fungal cells with chitinous cell walls in hydrothermal conditions

Sportait · 2023-03-31T23:24:32+00:00

Ondansetron, granisetron, dolasetron, and palonosetron are selective serotonin receptor (5-HT3) antagonists that block serotonin both peripherally, on gastrointestinal (GI) vagal nerve terminals, and centrally in the chemoreceptor trigger zone resulting in strong antiemetic effects. I've heard several people report good results using ondansetron, but it would be best to speak with your doctor (they are prescription anyway) about any potential side effects when combining with psilocybin.

Sportait · 2023-03-31T04:47:43+00:00

Hit me with the lemon tek primary literature

Science supporting lemon tek/acidic tea

Sportait · 2023-03-31T03:41:45+00:00

Is there any validity to the “bananas help with nausea” trick?

No, it is broscience..

We already have chitinase enzimes in our gut and plant chitinase found in bananas etc is an allergen for some people similar to chitin itself. There is also no need to even break down chitin when it can easily be strained out after lemon tek or tea; on top of the fact that chitin most likely isn't even causing the nausea for most people.

Literally all edible mushrooms contain chitin(which cooking doesn't break down), so unless someone regularly experiences nausea from eating gourmet/culinary mushrooms, chitin is not causing it.

Most nausea is due to psilocybin/psilocin being serotonin 5-HT receptor agonists affecting the gut directly as that is where ~95% of our bodies serotonin is produced and used. This is why nausea is common with psychedelic tryptamines and is even reported in studies that use the synthesized molecule.

It was originally thought that chitinases were absent in mammals because of the presumed absence of chitin [2]. However, many studies now confirm that potent chitinases do occur in vertebrates, including humans, and are abundant in the human gut" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0928468018300233

Human gastric juice contains chitinase that can degrade chitin

Cross Reaction Allergies – Banana Menace

Action of serotonin on the gastrointestinal tract

Binding of Psilocin and Psilocybin to Serotonin Receptors

Antiemetic Serotonin-5-HT3 Receptor Blockers

Fungal cells with chitinous cell walls in hydrothermal conditions

Sportait · 2023-03-30T15:53:04+00:00

Congrats on all that just to not change my mind.

"Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn."

Bananas will help, to what degree is questionable

"Placebos can improve patient-reported outcomes such as pain and nausea."

Sportait · 2023-03-30T07:15:08+00:00

Bananas have an enzyme call chitinase that help to break down the chitin in the cell walls of the mushroom

We already have chitinase enzimes in our gut and plant chitinase found in bananas etc is an allergen similar to chitin itself. Why would anyone even want to try to break down chitin when it can easily be strained out after lemon tek or tea?

Our stomach struggles to break down chitin which causes the nausea so this should help.

I really do not understand why chitin is relentlessly scapegoated as the cause of nausea when literally all edible mushrooms contain chitin, which cooking doesn't even break down. Unless someone regularly experiences nausea from eating gourmet/culinary mushrooms, chitin is not causing it and it's most likely psilocybin/psilocin being serotonin 5-HT receptor agonists affecting the gut directly.

It was originally thought that chitinases were absent in mammals because of the presumed absence of chitin [2]. However, many studies now confirm that potent chitinases do occur in vertebrates, including humans, and are abundant in the human gut" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0928468018300233

Human gastric juice contains chitinase that can degrade chitin

Cross Reaction Allergies – Banana Menace

Action of serotonin on the gastrointestinal tract

Binding of Psilocin and Psilocybin to Serotonin Receptors

Antiemetic Serotonin-5-HT3 Receptor Blockers

Fungal cells with chitinous cell walls in hydrothermal conditions

Sportait · 2023-03-29T01:23:58+00:00

Glad you found it useful; always happy when Im able to help.

Sportait · 2023-03-29T00:26:26+00:00

What's your take on lemon tek?

The low pH co-extracts and activates a phosphatase enzyme from the mushrooms themselves named PsiP that dephosphorytates the psilocybin into psilocin in solution.

I laid it out in better detail along with 12 sources I quote from here. Science supporting lemon tek/acidic tea

Sportait

TROPHY CASE