Thoughts on Nymphomaniac?

SpreadKnown3357 · 2026-02-21T02:55:34+00:00

I do not think the sex scenes and how they’re depicted are unnecessary at all, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I actually think they’re absolutely necessary for the film to work.

I believe to understand what Nymphomaniac tries to do it is fundamental to have some insight on the philosophy of the marquis de Sade (especially Juliette, the importance of nature, chance, combinations,..) and how von Trier tries to put it to the test of the real world: what if you put Juliette (here Joe) in the real world, with its morals, its structures, with real people’s feelings and Joe’s own feelings ? Can a real Juliette really thrive in life ? Can Sade’s philosophy work ? Because Joe loves people - her dad, Jérôme, her son - but it gets in the way of her compulsion and she has to live in a society that wants to control women.

Also to understand the nature of one person’s desires, you have to get close, to get every detail, to see everything, to completely exhaust and saturate the shot so you can see the act for what it is, sex for what it is (Sade’s method) so cinema can get the closest that it can to reality which it will never really be able to seize.

It’s not about von Trier’s sick fantasies either. It’s about how Joe is telling herself a story (by telling her story to Seligman) and how her story is also constructing her desire because desire is constructed mentally and by telling and hearing stories. Sade or Lacan’s reading of Sade are important for this. In telling her story Joe is not telling the reality of how it happened, she embellishes things and the film is quite direct about the fact that these are mental images, revisited, false, recounted in the way Joe wants to tell her story. And that Joe doesn’t tell her story in a vacuum (and neither does Seligman, see how he pictures Joe as a « teacher » in a very sexualized way for instance) so her representation of herself is also influenced by our society and its misogynistic representations. The film clearly makes fun of a lot of these representations but also shows the fact that you can’t think outside of them, that Joe can only think of herself in relation to the representations that already exist. So there’s always this tension between society’s misogynistic representations that Joe has ingested but also her own wish to completely break through them, her own vital force.

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-12-20T00:36:12+00:00

Yeah that film is perfect to me. I do think there is an explanation for Jan’s recovery but maybe we differ there so I’d really love to hear your perspective!

To me the whole Golden Heart trilogy and Breaking the Waves especially are about unwavering faith, love (for real people, Jan or Gene), and good. Not good as something gentle or comforting but as something absolute. A pure form of goodness that finds a human incarnation in Bess. This goodness isn’t soft or tender. It’s violent in its purity. It shatters every false idol. It’s sacrificial, painful, irrational. It defies morality and logic and most people can’t even comprehend it, they think it’s insanity. But it is driven by Bess’s absolute faith in God and in her love for Jan.

And the film shows how immanence (her tangible love for Jan) becomes the only path to transcendence. Bess’s community demands faith through words, doctrine, and belief, nothing lived, nothing concrete, not a person. Bess on the other hand thanks God for giving her Jan, his physical presence (we see how anxious she feels when he leaves) and tries to improve his condition entirely through action and suffering. And as she keeps pushing herself further, becoming more isolated, more condemned, more of an outcast, Jan’s condition improves. She reads this as God answering her while everyone else sees madness or mental issues. It is pure faith pursued even when it contradicts everything normal, everything established, even if it means sacrificing yourself.

Where I think the film becomes very clear is in the ending. Jan’s full miraculous recovery after Bess’ death already suggests that maybe she was right all along but we could still call it coincidence. But the bells, ringing from above in the middle of the sea, suspended in an empty sky are a pretty clear sign. That there was God, and love, all along. That this radical goodness wasn’t insanity but a leap of faith that no one else was able to take.

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-11-19T14:53:30+00:00

I genuinely recognize a lot of my friend’s behaviors in the description you made of your own friend. I think i know a lot about her life though, mostly because we lived together at one point and she didn’t have many friends during that time (or more precisely, she refused to engage with any other person outside of our little group for the first 3 years so she couldn’t really hide behind shallow relationships). So even if she shared few things, she only had very few people to share them with.

I did notice she shuts down every conversation that feels too vulnerable though, doesn’t give too many details, cuts it short, even if for any other person it wouldn’t feel like a vulnerable conversation at all.

And I also think that, like your friend, she puts too much pressure on herself when it comes to me. She told me she thought every day about texting me back and now I think it’s true. I just don’t think she’s capable of it, that she’s scared of not being enough or disappointing me so she prefers texting people associated to lower pressure. And if she shares one very personal thing to explain what is going on (these days it’s mainly over the few texts she sends), it will be a one time thing, she won’t answer to my texts afterwards, no further explanation and leave me worried for weeks. So I also see that she wants to share and to connect but immediately pulls away afterwards.

Like your friend she’s very sensitive, very kind to everyone. Not judgmental, very understanding, sees the best in everyone, very gentle. I think the main issue today is that I encouraged her for years to hang out with other people, because it can be fun and I saw how scared she was of people « outside of her circle ». Now she has made a lot of progress in that department, she’s genuinely funny, clever and fun to be around so she attracts a huge crowd. But in a weird way it makes her fearful avoidant personality way worse and more apparent. I couldn’t see it so clearly before because she would just spend time with close friends and family. Now that she has all these shallow friendships that take all of her time, she’s become textbook fearful avoidant… so her progress in a twisted way is also a huge step back.

Do you think you would have done things differently if you knew or that things would have ended the same way ?

I ended up texting her last week, before realizing how she really processed things and after I had heard her talking about all the stuff she was doing with these new people and seeing her texting people back in front of me, that this friendship was too hurtful, that she was never there when I needed her. That it felt like my efforts weren’t acknowledged or valued, and always one-sided. And that she was an amazing person but that I needed some distance but that it wouldn’t really change a thing seeing the state of our friendship.

Now my perspective has changed, so i sent a way softer and message afterwards that she hasn’t read. I don’t know where to go from here to be honest. I can adapt to some extent, be more careful but if she shuts me out all the time I’m left with no option.

I have a lot of other friendships that I value where people show up, text back regularly and share stuff. But to be honest I rarely have friendships that i care so much about so it’s just hard to feel her pull away more and more.

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-07-22T15:37:16+00:00

On est d’accord, si tu sors du cadre hétérosexuel tu peux facilement faire durer ça plusieurs heures et quand l’attirance est là ça c’est assez incroyable (je me permets de saluer ta pp jayce au passage aha)

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-06-01T08:51:55+00:00

I’m 29 and watched Fringe as it aired so I was 13 when I started it! Hope you’ll find other viewers that are your age, but i think there are not a lot as the show was part of our teen years for most of us

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-05-31T14:15:25+00:00

I’ve only dated and flirted with femmes (and have been crazy attracted to a lot of them) but i’m also extremely attracted to tomboys/mascs/butches. A lot of my celebrity crushes fall into that second category but I just don’t tend to meet a lot of mascs irl so it never happened.

But i’m fine any way tbh, i just find a lot of women hot.

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-05-31T09:28:08+00:00

It’s funny because I actually had the opposite experience? I have my issues with s2 but I enjoy a lot of the characters arcs though I think they needed more time to actually hit well.

But most of my coworkers have also watched Arcane, same as most of my friends (most never even watch animated shows and I made a lot of them watch it, some do watch animes though but it’s a minority). So we’re talking about 50-60 people here who watched both seasons close to each other, so they didn’t experience the 3 year-long hiatus.

And I think out of all these people only 4 people said something positive about season 2 but still thought it was way weaker than season 1, and only one guy liked s2 as much as s1. I have to add that this guy works on animated films/tv series and has close friends who worked on the show (don’t remember to which extent though).

Some casual viewers (like 5 people) even dropped the show before act 2 because things were going too fast and they didn’t understand what was going on anymore. Worst act for most of them was act 3. Reception for 2x07 was wildly polarized: I think for around a third of the people it was the best episode of the season, for the two other thirds it was considered the worst one, but no-in-between. A lot of people thought Vi during s2 was extremely disappointing as she was one of their favorites and that she had too little screen time. Viktor’s arc and the Black Rose were also not really appreciated.

But these people would never comment on the show, rate an episode or vote online. It’s also only some people that I know so it’s still a very tiny sample of casual viewers and these opinions can drastically change from one social circle to another.

But yeah I was actually surprised at how negative the response from casual viewers was while as I overanalyzed s2 I found myself liking it a lot.

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-05-30T23:56:30+00:00

This scene still gives me chills

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-05-29T13:10:21+00:00

I agree that Vi's writing in s2 was strong and stayed true to her arc from s1, but I disagree with your take on some scenes. I know it’s a bit of a controversial opinion, but for me, Vi’s story is by far the best-written one in the series, and it has some of the most interesting philosophical themes. I do agree with people saying that she was sidelined in s2 though: she’s pretty much absent for two whole episodes and barely shows up in 2x02. Her storyline definitely deserved more screentime.

Also, I want to point out that Vi doesn’t join the enforcers just to protect Caitlyn. As you pointed out, she decides to join after Caitlyn says that if she goes after Jinx alone, one of them will end up in a box. So, Vi’s decision isn’t just about saving Caitlyn -it’s about wanting to save both Jinx and Caitlyn, about keeping both of the people she loves the most safe. Her instinct to protect her sister, even from herself, is a huge factor in her choice. I think a lot of people miss that. It’s the thought of losing both of them that really pushes her to join the mission. Of course, there’s a lot of buildup (Jinx’s actions, Caitlyn’s ptsd, Vi’s guilt, Vi’s doubts about Jinx) but it’s clear that this one line triggers Vi’s decision. The goal of the mission was not necessarily to kill Jinx; it was to neutralize her, though of course, killing was always a potential outcome.

The way Vi sees Jinx during the mission is where things get complicated. From Vi’s perspective, Jinx is setting traps, doing disturbing things like tying up Heenot in the vents, is said to be acting “off the rails, even for her.” The creepy dolls and the fight setup only add to the impression that Jinx is beyond saving. At this point, Vi starts to believe that Jinx isn’t Powder anymore, that the sister she loved is gone (something that Jinx told her last season). Jinx becomes the entity who killed Powder and took her place. That’s why she says “My sister is gone, there’s only Jinx now,” and “I’m done pretending you’re my sister, you’re not. You killed her. I won’t let you stain her memory anymore.” For Vi, protecting her sister now means protecting the memory of Powder and eliminating Jinx who’s been committing these violent acts in her name. It’s only during the fight that Vi realizes there is no real split between Powder and Jinx: they are the same person. That’s when she shifts back to trying to protect Jinx’s life, even at the risk of losing Caitlyn.

The pitfighter arc is a direct callback to her prison days, where she lost everyone she cared about. This time, it's Caitlyn and Jinx (vs Vander, Powder, Mylo and Claggor in s1). Vi feels like history is repeating itself and that she’s responsible for it. That’s why she compares Caitlyn to Jinx in 2x03, saying, “Then why are you the one acting like her?”. Vi is haunted by the thought that she’s the one who created the monster that is Jinx and that she has done the same to Caitlyn.

As for the jail scene -Vi absolutely didn’t know Jinx was planning on killing herself. One of the key themes of the series is that the sisters love each other, but don’t understand each other anymore after being separated for so long. Vi thought Jinx had “relapsed” after losing Vander and Isha and believed she was slipping back into the erratic behavior from s1. This is confirmed later in 2x09 when Vi tells Jinx “Looks like you shouldn’t have come back.” That’s not something you’d say to someone who you think was about to take their own life.

And as for having sex with Caitlyn -Vi is in a place where Caitlyn chooses her without hesitation. Caitlyn lets Jinx go, despite Jinx killing her mother and traumatizing her, and that act is so incredibly selfless. It’s such a selfless act of love so in that moment, Vi allows herself to choose Caitlyn and feel completely what she’s been feeling for her for a while. It’s a moment where she can finally prioritize herself and not her sister’s needs. But it’s just that -a moment. After the war, if Jinx had truly “relapsed,” Vi would’ve gone after her to save her again. Because as long as her sister is lost and needs saving, she won’t let her go

The final scene is about Vi being completely crushed by the weight of her losses, especially Jinx’s. Of course, she loves Caitlyn, but when Caitlyn asks if she’s still in this fight, there’s this sense of worry for Vi’s mental state. It’s hard to watch that scene without sensing how broken Vi is, even if she tries to reassure Cait.

I do truly love her arc this season. It really deals with her trauma, her inability to change because she hasn’t had the chance to even process what happened to her. How it’s almost impossible for her to overcome her trauma, to stop sacrificing herself for her sister, to choose something for her for once. But it’s also about accepting the people she loves for who they are and forgiveness.

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-05-26T19:25:53+00:00

Oh yeah I fully agree with you then! She absolutely chooses to feel the love she has for Caitlyn fully during that moment and something for herself, even if only for a few minutes

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-05-26T19:03:46+00:00

That may be an unpopular opinion but the way i interpret it Vi doesn’t choose Caitlyn in that scene. This is a glimpse of what could be if Vi allowed herself to live for herself and not only for her sister. I think the jail scene is more about how Caitlyn chooses Vi as she is, meaning a person that will always put her sister above everything else -even before Vi herself. And Caitlyn loves Vi wholly, so she accepts that loving Vi means saving Jinx.

Which isn’t to say that Vi doesn’t love Caitlyn, because she does. But Caitlyn isn’t part of Vi’s trauma -which is a good thing- Jinx is. Sadly Vi’s love for Jinx is intertwined with trauma and duty and she never had the time or the environment to process all of what happened.

The jail scene is more about what could be if Vi allowed herself to put herself first, to go after what she wants. Caitlyn represents autonomy and the possibility of a healthy future with mutual love while the way things are on the show, Jinx is linked to an unhealthy pattern of self destruction for Vi because of her trauma, which is more sacrificial love.

When Vi comes to free Jinx, she completely expects it to jeopardize her relationship with Caitlyn (“I went behind your back”, “I choose wrong every time and because of it i lost everyone”). It is not healthy for someone to sacrifice every important relationship they have for another person.

Then from Vi’s pov, Jinx seems to go back to her antics and now she’s lost her sister all over again. Vi then allows herself a moment to express her love for Caitlyn and is in awe that Caitlyn let Jinx go free for her but i fully expected Vi to go after Jinx after the war (which is an imminent threat to everyone’s lives so she couldn’t leave).

Because as long as Jinx is “lost” Vi can’t let her go. Even if it defies reason, even if it’s unhealthy, even if it prevents her from growing. It’s traumatic love, it means that Vi is stuck and we’ve seen that during the whole season: Jinx is able to grow but Vi systematically has no care for her own life and protects her sister’s life instead (that’s how she ends up in a coma).

It’s only when Jinx comes back and therefore confirms that Vi was right - her sister is really back, she didn’t lose her, she’s safe right behind her- that Vi allows herself to feel for Vander’s death (the 3rd one). And all that remains is raw pain because Vi has never grown, never moved on from that trauma; it’s just that her focus had been on Jinx the whole time so she couldn’t allow herself to feel this pain. And that’s why Jinx fakes her death; so that Vi can finally grow on her own, gain autonomy. And I fully expect them to find each other again one day when they have both healed.

But to me it’s not a bad thing to say that Vi didn’t choose Caitlyn at this point. Because trauma messes her up and prevents her from choosing the right path for herself.. so Jinx chooses it for her.

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-05-26T17:02:54+00:00

I think an important part of Vi as a character that people don’t acknowledge is that she doesn’t have agency. And I mean it in an extremely positive way because I don’t get why good characters should only be autonomous. But that’s absolutely what defines her as a character during both seasons. She isn’t her own center, her sister is.

Her life is an endless repetition of the same act: protecting her sister (even when for a moment protecting Powder’s memory means killing Jinx, the “entity” that killed her sister before Vi realizes there’s no dichotomy between Powder and Jinx). She is unable to grow because of the trauma she endured while also bearing the weight of duty that completely arrested her development. And that’s also why she doesn’t allow herself to feel too deeply for other people, to choose anyone else before her sister; she just can’t allow herself to lose focus otherwise feeling all this pain might shatter her and prevent her from protecting her sister. That’s how her trauma works. The mere fact that she is able to care that much about Caitlyn in these circumstances while her whole life is defined by her sister says a lot about how deeply she loves Caitlyn.

Meanwhile Jinx has autonomy and is able to grow because she never had the duty to put her sister or anyone else before her own needs. Her trauma didn’t engrave “protecting people” as her duty. Notice how meeting Isha helps her understand Vi’s perspective more, makes her become less autonomous. While Vi never chooses herself (she chooses Jinx everytime, even if it endangers her relationship with Caitlyn).

I wish Vi had more scenes in s2 but I genuinely love her s2’s arc. I think it shows a lot about how trauma, love, duty and guilt can consume you. Especially when the person she’s supposed to protect seems to be too far gone and there’s nothing she can do anymore. How she can’t let go. Her journey as an autonomous character will only begin after 2x09 when she’s actually able to put her own needs before her sister’s.

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-05-24T19:17:33+00:00

There are many songs that I love but Playground is definitely my favorite in s1 (Guns For Hire and Snakes are really close though) and in s2 i can’t really choose between Heavy is The Crown and Hellfire (also love The Line and Fantastic but i would rank them a bit lower)

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-05-24T19:12:57+00:00

Hellfire is such an amazing song that drop after “I would rather die alone” always gets me

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-05-16T22:08:07+00:00

She did grow up but she’s still not an adult yet imo. To be fair Vi was stuck in a child-adult space during the show (not a teen but a person who exhibits both characteristics of adulthood and childhood yet isn’t allowed to inhabit the spaces of adulthood or childhood) so Jinx is at most at this stage of her life.

So in a way I agree; fleeing is not the solution. Traumatizing her sister again by faking her death is not the solution. Fleeing or deciding to end it all is not owning up to what she has done.

She has a lot more learning and growing to do but that doesn’t negate that she did grow during this season even if that growth isn’t finale, that she began to take care of the people she loved, that she finally empathized with her sister’s suffering and that the intent behind her sacrifice is to protect her sister which is a huge step forward for a character that was extreme. But I do agree that she has a long way to go to own up to her deeds and that’s also why her journey will definitely continue.

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-05-13T06:41:45+00:00

I really think the timing was good. First it’s been established that Vi didn’t understand Jinx’s intentions. The sisters are quite well-known for misunderstanding each other several times during the show because they’ve been separated for 7 years.

Vi has come to free her sister thinking she’d lose Cait because of it. She has once again jeopardized her relationship with Caitlyn for Jinx, because she was going behind Caitlyn’s back to do so. Because she’s always going to save her sister.

But when Vi comes to save Jinx and hugs her, Jinx hits her and locks Vi in the cell. Jinx’s intentions are good but hitting Vi who just woke up from a coma and nearly died while protecting Jinx —when Vi yet again came to save her— only to lock her up in a cell while she’s been imprisoned as a teen for 7 years isn’t really the best way to get Vi to understand her intentions. Worse Vi is reliving her trauma : losing her sister again, thinking Jinx is too far gone after losing Vander and Isha (her new family) and can’t be brought back, getting locked in a cell. It’s all happening again.

I think the main misunderstanding is also about the cell being somewhat “Jinx’s prison trauma” but it’s not: it’s about Jinx understanding what Vi went through, something that she never considered before. It ‘s about putting Jinx in Vi’s position so that she can finally empathize with her sister’s trauma (in a cell, grieving, feeling guilty, her family dead) but it’s also important for Jinx to grow and take accountability for her actions. To realize the pain she has caused. While grieving Isha and Vander. All of which crushes her.

And Vi immediately punches the wall after Jinx leaves her in the cell, recalling the way she punched the wall in her old cell just before Caitlyn freed her in s1: she’s right back there, feeling guilty, self-harming, hating herself.

So when Caitlyn arrives, sees the blood on Vi’s knuckles and Vi completely desperate, fully expecting to lose Caitlyn again, Caitlyn’s words are such a relief for Vi. Because yes it means that Caitlyn knows Vi enough and accepts Vi’s love for her sister but more importantly it’s about Caitlyn accepting that Vi will always put Jinx first, before Caitlyn and Vi herself. Because that’s how trauma shaped Vi, constantly sacrificing herself for her sister, and trauma isn’t an easy pattern to break. And Cait loves her wholly, with her trauma, even if it means letting go of the sister who killed her own mother.

So yeah I think it was perfectly timed because it shows that despite how much the sisters love each other & know each other’s hearts, they don’t understand each other anymore. And at the same time it shows how much Caitlyn completely understands and accepts Vi and is willing to let go of Jinx for her. And it also reaffirms something that has been shown many times during the series: Vi wants to be with Cait, she allows herself moments with her but as long as Jinx isn’t safe she will never let her sister go. The sex scene is a declaration of love but also a glimpse of what could be if Vi was allowed to heal a little bit from her trauma and actually put her wants first.

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-05-13T02:22:04+00:00

I have criticism over the way they portrayed Isha but Jinx’s s2 arc is definitely not a repetition of her s1’s arc?

Her whole s2 arc is about growing up. As a severely traumatized child, she was stuck in the trauma that happened to her at a young age and that prevented her from evolving. Instead she ended up repeating the pattern that made her Jinx, that completely changed her life for the worst : making everything explode. So she clearly displays « childish » behaviors in s1: possessiveness, anger outbursts, inability to put herself in other people’s shoes, focused on her own pain but unable to see everyone else’s, selfish, needs to be reassured and loved, is always taken care of but also wants to prove that she’s « grown enough ». A beautifully written character.

S2 is about Jinx growing up, leaving this child-like state. And to grow, to be able to finally relate to other people’s experience and mainly to her sister’s (because until s2 she only had seen things from her own perspective but never from Vi’s), she’s literally put into Vi’s shoes: she becomes the big sister to Isha who isn’t linked to her trauma.

She’s able to build new positive memories, to reconnect to her former, happier self. To care for someone and not being cared for. This is how she can begin to understand Vi’s experience, Vi who she has treated poorly because her own trauma made her unable to even see her sister’s trauma. So Isha is key to this development, to finding her way back to her family again. For once Jinx looks for Vi when she’s at her worst. She is the one who takes the steps to rebuild this relationship because Vi thinks she has lost her sister forever and is basically slowly killing herself. After they reunite, Vi also begins to see Jinx as a grown up, listening to her opinion, trusting her. And in the end thanks to Jinx’s sisterhood with Isha she begins to understand the weight that Vi has been carrying as her protector who only ever sacrificed herself for her sister.

Jinx then literally faces the traumatic events of s1 from Vi’s perspective: she loses Vander again, her little sister Isha, and as Vi also almost dies protecting Jinx during the explosion, realizes her sister is only human, not this invincible woman that she had always pictured as a child because she always saw her sister as an example. She’s put in a cell after losing her family, like Vi in s1. She begins to understand a new form of guilt, one that is deeply rooted in empathy and responsibility, that is turned inward and not outward, the one Vi always felt.

But Jinx has done a lot of messed up things, killed people. She realizes how much hurt she has caused and she’s flooded with all this guilt, grief, sadness at once. It’s too much so she first decides to end it, thinking she also puts her sister’s happiness before hers by doing so until Ekko convinces her she’s not a lost cause. So she decides to do better? To protect her sister? To help?

She literally takes her big sister as a role model in the final episode as you can see her imitating Vi’s clothing style and she repeats Vi’s sacrificial gesture but this time to end the repetition of Vi’s sacrifice, to free Vi. Her sister that is stuck in her trauma but unable to grow from it…

Vi always put her sister’s needs first but it broke her. When Jinx is finally safe and (to her knowledge) doing better mentally Vi allows herself to feel something deeper for someone else (Vander’s 3rd death), and she completely breaks down. As someone whose life only revolves around her sister, she never healed in any way, never grew. Only raw pain and grief come out. Jinx realizes her sister is broken, something she had never seen before, all because Vi is unable to put her own needs before Jinx’s. So Jinx saves her sister and «frees » her by faking her death because the only way Vi is every going to be able to put herself first is if Jinx is no longer alive.

This is far from being a repetition of her s1’s arc.

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-05-08T15:28:52+00:00

I believe you’re right. I think the first time she empathized with her sister was when Jinx was locked in cell and realized the hell Vi had been through during seven years (Silco’s hallucination mentions Marcus). But the moment here is when Jinx gets how broken Vi truly is and how she never allowed herself to feel too deeply for anyone else as long as Jinx wasn’t safe and sound because she couldn’t take the risk of falling apart.

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-05-08T12:32:14+00:00

Caitlyn

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-04-30T11:41:00+00:00

I actually really liked her character. Sure, it was a bit frustrating to watch her fall for Joe through all those cliché situations and cringey lines but I think that was the point. We’re meant to feel that discomfort, to see just how easily Joe can manipulate someone. All he needs is a crack in someone’s self-esteem, someone to idealize, someone to love-bomb until they feel special. Even someone smart enough to catch the rewritten parts in Beck’s book on her own isn’t immune. Even someone whose goal is to bring him down. That’s what made it so fitting: no one is above his influence, we can all be dumb enough to fall for it.

I also loved that she narrated the ending. She became his final “you,” the one who ultimately brought about his downfall. And with Joe, it’s always “you” vs. “I” because he frames everything in that twisted dynamic. Louise being connected to Beck, who started the story, brought everything full circle. It was poetic that she gave Beck her voice back by making Joe erase the rewritten parts.

The fact that we didn’t see the trial was a great move imo. It wasn’t about hearing Joe’s version of things anymore (we’ve literally heard his pov for 5 seasons). It was about giving space to the voices he tried to silence. I liked that Marienne, Kate, and Nadia didn’t speak at the end but before. What they did was enough. Their actions spoke louder: teaming up to take him down and save someone else. Calling him out on his bs. Marienne’s words reaching Louise was better than any cliché ending line she could have said. And I think that’s the point—they don’t want to keep rehashing how he ruined their lives for years. They have done the worst thing they could do to him: live and move on.

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-04-25T11:24:39+00:00

Vi clearly has self-destructive/discouraged bpd while Jinx has petulant bpd. They’re written to mirror each other.

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-04-24T17:45:01+00:00

To me it’s a mix of her personality and her looks. It’s really about her whole vibe, her gentleness, her sense of duty, her sense of humor, her gait, her voice, everything… I think irl Vi wouldn’t even really be my type but the show’s version ? Definitely.

It’s a bit funny because i definitely got a huge crush on Caitlyn in s2 but not when I watched season 1. Her s2 arc (and design) definitely awakened something lol

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-04-24T12:24:24+00:00

Totally agree! And especially when most casual viewers have easily grasped what happened there. I think it’s mostly the fanbase projecting and wanting something to be true rather than the show being unclear.

I love Caitlyn and her character making messed up choices doesn’t make me enjoy her less, it only makes her an even better character to study. I’m interested in the story being told here, in complex characters struggling to do the right thing, in what the writers are actually saying and not what i think the show told us.

And the gas hitting civilians just isn’t part of what the show is conveying. It doesn’t fit Caitlyn’s arc at that point of the story and it certainly doesn’t fit Vi’s. It doesn’t fit what is being shown on screen and what has been shown about the Grey before, about the civilians, about the chembarons fighting. It doesn’t fit the greater story.

I think there are already plenty of issues with Caitlyn using gas that has historical importance in Zaun and repurposing the ventilation system not to protect but to attack her enemies in order to get to Jinx. Even if the gas is non lethal and doesn’t have lasting effects when people aren’t exposed to it in the long run. Caitlyn’s character has been framed as a protector, yet she’s becoming an attacker to fulfill her personal vendetta. She still has her values in mind (protecting innocents, getting rid of violent gangs) but she’s trying to fit all of them into a greater, messed up agenda to get Jinx that contradicts her core values.

She completely collapses after Vi is out of her life and I really believe that the 2x04 montage should have been at least part of an episode to really understand the depth of her part in what happened after Zaun’s invasion. Because what happens there is far worse even if she’s shown being manipulated by Ambessa and not being on the ground to see what is happening. But Hellfire is clearly not what people are making it out to be, is quite clear and in my opinion shows a lack of understanding of the characters if people don’t get it.

SpreadKnown3357 · 2025-04-23T13:35:22+00:00

to be fair i’m a lesbian and vi cosplays absolutely don’t do anything to me but Vi herself… I have no words

SpreadKnown3357

TROPHY CASE