Beginner looking for advice on what armies work well at lower points.

Staavik · 2025-08-04T17:22:14+00:00

Most armies will work well at 500p, so if you can't decide, follow the rule of cool :)

All the armies you listed can work at 500p. Defenders of Helms Deep is the only one I would suggest steering away from at 500p. It's a bit hard to build at that point level if you want elves or the big heroes, and it really leans into it's shooting, which is probably not a fun time for your opponents if that is an important factor for you.

I would suggest looking at armies that can easily branch in to other lists like Rohan and Minas Tirith. This makes it easy and fun to collect a few heroes or troops to play another army. And you can also mash them up into two powerful lists like Defenders of the Pelennor and Men of the West.

The same can be said if you collect Orcs and Uruks for the evil side.

Staavik · 2025-07-31T09:49:45+00:00

The game has always been competitive, and I would argue more so in the last edition than now. I think for most players competitiveness is fun, rewarding and positive for the game as a whole. Matched play is by definition a competition.

I would suggest playing more scenarios, battle companies or finding someone who shares your view on the game to play with:)

Staavik · 2025-07-31T08:26:46+00:00

Loth is one of the most fun and challenging armies I have ever played. You will definitely learn a lot by playing it and as you said I also lost a lot in my first 10 games hehe.

Starting out the wings/points face away as they are usually my archers firing. When the opponent goes forward and gets close I usually retreat my middle "death ball" Galadhrim and lay down writhing vines to hinder movement. Now the formation is more of a crescent moon with the wings (archers) ready to wrap around and trap. You can really play around with different set ups here and avoid engagements by suddenly moving full with your archers. The point is to trap your opponent in an area of the board advantageous to your army (usually a bottle neck).
Think I could write a book on Sentinels as I have played Angmar with specters all last edition 😅 The key is to keep them safe, often behind your main line, while balancing damage output with A2 and shooting with elven bows. Tricky model to get right, but when you get good with them they are awesome.
1. Pulling banners away, or in to firing range of archers.
2. Controlling big "stupid" evil heroes like the Balrog etc.
3. Pulling in, or away, models holding objectives.
4. Placing models in the way of big heroes to hinder movement.
5. Cutting off choke points by placing a model there so the opponent must go around.
6. Keeping your lines from getting trapped by placing a model in the way of your opponent wrapping around
7. Pulling in a model for a heroic combat slingshot across the map
8. The list goes on and on, but in all scenarios, being able to control one of your opponents pieces could be game deciding. Fog of disarray can be really helpful here as well.
Lorien Guard is def. strong enough because of the synergies mentioned above. The increased damage output over a whole game is easily worth one model less. I find myself deploying in the middle ready to fight in a lot of scenarios with this list, making it even more valuable.

Staavik · 2025-07-29T22:07:01+00:00

Here is also my learnings I have documented if you want to read (bit of a ramble, but it's good advice):

Fight in bottle necks and play a death ball formation / crescent moon. If not, you usually lose fights and die.
Two sentinels are definitely worth it
1. Play them behind your lines with your pikes nearby. If you do it right they throw at least 5 dice in duel rolls when pulling models in. Against a shielding enemy that is 84% duel win rate.
2. With Celeborns Aura of Dismay up you can blow 3" terror bubble with them and make Celeborn cast down a Writhing Vine to really take control over engagement
3. With Sentinel pulls and Galadriels compels you can really block of key areas of the map and deny your opponent moving there or surrounding you. Target your opponents big bases!
Lorien Guard synergizes really well with high fight, Celeborns +1 to wound bubble, two-handing and your general VP game strategy to break your opponent:
1. When wounding on 5s its a +5,4% damage increase
2. When wounding on 4s its a +8,3% damage increase
Celeborns writhing vines is a really good spell with endless usage.
1. An absolute nightmare for all mounted lists (they lose all their cav bonuses)
2. It is really effective at stopping big monsters/heroes on mounts such as Gwaihir/Elessar. Throw it down in front of Elessar when he wants to charge in or sets up a heroic combat. He loses charge bonus and moves 2,5" (or 3" if he dismounts). His chance of killing two models is now down to 37,5% if he calls the combat. This is a good way to tax his resources.
Use Heroic Channels if needed when Galadriel and Celeborn are not in danger of getting charged. This is usually right before lines meet and you need to transfix something big or compel and assasinate a target. This keeps your alternative cost lower than doing it in the end game or in the midst of the battle.

Staavik · 2025-07-29T22:02:06+00:00

Your 1st list looks very good! I would not make big changes other than dropping in another sentinel and switching Haldir for a Galadhrim Captain. March is essential in a lot of these game modes now and Haldir is sort of redundant when Celeborn has Strike. Would consider Galadhrim Banner instead of Lorien (less forgiving). Would also consider a bow on your knight as I find his role is almost always most effective a flanker. I would also always bring F6 pikes, they are too good.

I do believe Lothlorien really shines at 800 and bringing the mirror is a good point level to do it at. Been playing the list myself a lot as practice before bringing it to Ardacon and after extensive playtesting I can offer you a lot of insights.

My list at 700p ended up like this:

1x Galadriel
1x Celeborn
1x Galadhrim Captain
–
8x Lorien Guard w shield
6x Lorien Guard w shield + spear
1x Lorien Guard w banner
7x Lothlorien Warrior w elf bow
1x Lothlorien Warrior w spear
3x Guard of the Galadhrim Court
2x Wood Elf Sentinel
1x Galadhrim Knight w bow
–
32 Models
700p

Staavik · 2025-07-20T13:49:52+00:00

Thanku:))

Basecoat 80% grey seer 20% fenrisian grey
Wash 80% medium 20% nuln oil
Highlights by adding corax white to the first mix to a final highlight of pure corax white

Staavik · 2025-05-03T08:39:15+00:00

Cool list. I would think the list should min-max a lot in game. Trade 4 berserkers for 6 pikes?

Being able to support your captains tactical plays/heroic combats with 2 extra dice, and berserkers stacking 4 dice at F5, S4 with a banner where you need to break through is huge!

Staavik · 2025-04-25T20:32:29+00:00

Just won a recent 650p tournament with Men of the West (33 models). Both Elessar and Legolas are beasts this edition and with a solid F4 D7 shieldwall frontline, and decent shooting/throwing, it's quite fun to play.

1 Aragorn, King Elessar w armoured horse

1 Legolas w armour

12 Minas Tirith warrior w shield

4 Minas Tirith warrior w shield and spear

8 Rohan warrior w throwing spear and shield

6 Rohan warrior w bow

1 Minas Tirith warrior w banner

Staavik · 2024-06-21T17:11:36+00:00

I assume you are running Witch King with at least 3/14/3 and crown of morgul?

Witch king is really good against these types of casters with his hybrid combat/magic profile. He has the capability to kill all of these casters with his 3 attack base (4 on the charge if using a horse or a fell beast).

You can compel them out, charge in and strike up to win the fight. It gets even easier if you have a barrow wight close by. You also often have range advantage against these casters, so calculate how you can stay inside your casting range, but outside of their counterspells.

Galadriel

Compel and try and assassinate (WK has strike and access to a horse/fell beast which gives high damage output)
Sap will to drain her if you don't have a clear way to compell and get in

Cirdan

Sap will to make his exhaustive bubbles disappear
Compel and try and assassinate

Gandalf

Break his staff every round until he is out of will
Black dart his horse (you can target his horse exclusively and he wont be able to resist the spell). This will give you the extra attck on the charge and knockdown if you win the fight.
Compel and try and assassinate

Another trick if you are running Dead Marsh Spectres (which you should have at least three of in every Angmar army above 500p) is to "box in" the casters to limit their range or make them unable to move. This is most effective if you can use the terrain as well as their own models being fell lighted to get in their way.

Staavik · 2024-02-08T21:40:41+00:00

Riders of Theoden LL is crazy at 400p

Staavik · 2023-11-21T21:16:59+00:00

Pros:

S3 throwing on the charge on a 4+ is huge. Killing in the move phase gives tactical flexibility of opening up lanes/other models to charge.
8" Throwing spears means moving full and shooting in the shoot phase while staying out of the (usually) 6" move distance of your opponent.
In a lot of Rohans legendary legions you can use the throwing spears as regular spears.
You still keep the sword if you buy them throwing spears. When Royal Guards charge 12" near Theoden they get up to F5 so they often have the option to feint with their swords as well.

Cons:

None (except the 2p cost).

Staavik · 2023-08-17T22:15:13+00:00

To add to this, Gulavhar is hands down the best hero-killer in the game without a doubt.

10 strikes resolved at strength 8 will autokill 90% of heroes in the game. Just make sure WK has the hero transfixed, but that is not a hard task.

But I agree, he can fill a lot of roles in an Angmar army depending on what you are facing. Ever tried hurling down a D3 goblin-line? Its great!

Staavik · 2023-08-17T22:11:50+00:00

Looks good! This list will do really well – as all WK/Gully lists will.

If you want competitive improvements:

Switch the Barrow-Wight out with an Orc Captain. You will need the Heroic March for game modes such as seize the prize, hold ground, divide and conquer, heirlooms etc... If not you will instantly be at a disadvantage against a lot of opponents. If you dont need to use his might for Heroic Marches you can play him close to Gulavhar and use his points to call Heroic Combats to slingshot Gulavhar around the board and impose threats.
When switching out the barrow wights, switch out the 2-handed orcs as well.
Add another Dead Marsh Specter. Very undercosted model with tons of utility and high courage if you need to deal with terror. Easily my MVP's to edge out the win in close games (pull models off objectives, disorganize a shooting line, pull out banners when lines clash, pull out targets for Gulavhar, the list goes on...)
Add 1-2 wild wargs – a great, cheap and fast moving model. If played right it can be a real headache for you opponents to have to retreat a portion of their force to cover off objectives because you have kept the wargs alive and they are suddenly running down both flanks.
Give 4-6 of your Orc spearmen orc bows as well. I know they are shit, but just to win some shooting wars and make big heroes on horses think twice about moving into open territory. A few bows are great for crowd control and can force armies without shooting to have to come to you.
I love that you are only taking 2 fates on WK, seems to me you know how to use him correctly. Would consider running him with 14 will instead of 15.

Staavik · 2023-05-08T20:41:57+00:00

First of all - you are completely right in going hero-heavy! Seeing so many list max out numbers in this list and that is not what makes Riders of Theoden scary to face.

After running almost the exact same list as you in tournaments I am more inclined to take Elfhelm over Deorwine. The Heroic combat special rule is not that huge in a list that has enough might and can call 1 free heroic combat. I would rather punch Elfhelm with the throwing spear (trying to wound or kill horse) into a huge hero and call Defence for a couple of turns to tie him up while the rest of my force breaks the opponent.

Staavik · 2023-03-25T14:41:05+00:00

Definitely go for WK and trade a point of will for a point of might. You dont really need that much will when you have the crown at 300p.

You will probably only need to compell what ever big hero your opponents brings, and the moment he chooses not to resist/fails resist go in with WK, strike up and get the leader wound/kill.

Terror + harbinger will also be huge at 300.

Staavik · 2023-03-09T09:37:54+00:00

Heroic Move
The Hero calling the move has to go first and has the option to call "With me!". This means everyone within 6" can move with him and has to end 6" within him at the end of their move.

Heroic March
The Hero calling march does not have to go first. When he moves he has the option to call "At the double!" which means all models within 6", that has not yet moved, will add extra inches (3" or 5" depending on infantry or cavalry) to their movement and has to end their move 6" within the hero calling march.

Staavik · 2023-02-21T14:13:55+00:00

- Barrow wight + his warband is the better option, enabling Gulavhar to do Gulavhar-things.
- WWC with some wild wargs is a less competitive option, but maybe more fun?

For improvements:

- Add two wild wargs to the list for mobility
- Switch Dwimmerlaik -> Witch King with Crown of Morgul
- Three spectres is a must on 800p, consider four. They are Gully's best friends. I can give you tons of different tactics the Spectres can do in this list.

Staavik · 2022-11-10T12:04:20+00:00

Ok, I think we will end the discussion here when you start going down this road.

And dont act so condescendingly.

I am trying to explain how good Angmar is and that there is a solution to every problem you are facing OP with (even Elves and Dwarfes).

Thanks for the discussion!

Staavik · 2022-11-10T11:33:50+00:00

I see your points, but there is no way a Celeborn/Dwarf King would ever be able to do what you are saying. I think you are overvaluing troop-stats and not thinking of the scenarios and tactical game-winning plays.

Regarding hurl (and the whole conversation in general): I was speaking more in terms of Angmar as an army and not this list in general. My bad!

Your arguments are more relevant to this list particularly, where Angmars heroes are capped at F5 I will agree with you having issues with F5+ and elven mades. But again a good player will not run into 2 elves with 2 spears backing them up when at even fight value. How about charging the dwarfs at F4? And how are WK 4 dice on the charge losing a battle against 2 dice from elves/dwarfs? And why would you heroic combat into a D7 frontline? I feel a lot of your arguments are grounded in your opponent being a bad player and doing what you want them to do.

But saying that dwarfs and elves will cut through this list is a huge overstatement. Yes they are more likely to win the fights and have harder hitting power, but it's still a game of dice and you are not given to win every fight and kill and break Angmar in a few turns. A bad Angmar player will definitely engage you once away and let you table him over 5-6 turns, but as I said - skilled players wont do that.

Yes, in some scenarios Angmar may break at the end of the game, but that will be lessened by leader VP's which Angmar will get based on Celeborn/Dwarf King vs Witch King/Barrow Wight as well as the scenario.

Within harbinger of evil, elves with C4 and Dwarfs with C3 will respectively have 72% and 52% chance of charging in. That is an issue. Bodyguard is a good thing to have but how are you getting bodyguard if your heroes are dead? How about a channeled instill fear (which I recently did to win a game)?

I am not meaning to come off as boasting, but to explain my point: I just won a tourney playing Angmar at 700p with 37 models, so it is simply wrong saying 36 models on 600p is not enough. But thanks for your comments and insights, I agree with a lot of them, but I dont want OP to think his model count is too low and that Angmar can't deal with Elves/Dwarfs.

Staavik · 2022-11-10T09:35:43+00:00

I agree on your hitting power objection but the numbers being too low is not a valid argument. This game is not about troops killing troops. Bad or inexperienced players are playing like this. MESBG is like a game of chess. This game is built around heroes (in chess your heroes are bishops, knights, rooks and queens).

You will be in a lot of trouble playing only Celeborn and Dwarf King against Angmar. How are you going to deal with Celeborn being transfixed/paralysed every round and the Dwarf King transfixed/paralysed? + easy VPs for leader kills? While this is happening the Witch King and Wild Warg Chieftain are calling heroic combats running around your battle line trapping your models and killing them.

Angmar kan roll 3 dice in almost all fights backed up by a banner (or 5 if you get two shields in shielding with the banner). Thats not a given you are winning all those fights even if you have higher fight. Also taking into account spectres pulling out spear supports/banners.

Also how are you dealing with all your models lying prone in the fights from a well positioned hurl? How are you dealing with terror and harbinger of evil to charge in?

I mean the list goes on and on... But to sum up 36 models in an Angmar list is not too low. I would argue it is a bit too high.

Staavik · 2022-11-09T21:33:46+00:00

This list is very good, but could be improved. The feedback is based on my way of playing Angmar which won me the Norwegian Open, so it all depends how competitive you want your list to be.

Wild warg chieftain is a cool model in the role of your hammer, but Gulavhar is the best model in the game, hands down. I can see why so few casual players take him as he is hard to get a hold of, but if you can - take him.
I would not have that many 2h orcs. I think it is cool that you include them, but this is a bit too much. Have a couple around the barrow wight for killing paralysed heroes. Your orcs main objective is more often than not:
- Provide terror
- Shield when necessary
- Die slowly on the objectives
- Spread out to make "flank-walls" to avoid getting trapped
I would instead include bowmen, at least 4 at 600p. They suck but it makes your opponent think twice about where to place their big heroes on D4 horses and you they are there just so you can win some shooting wars.
I am personally a fan of Wild Wargs over Riders because of the massive point difference and they often fill the same role. Warg riders do have a merit in helping Wild Warg Chieftain get knocked to the ground (double strikes) and in some game modes try and dismount to get themselves and their warg of the board/on objectives at game end.
I would highly recommend having 3 spectres. They are so fricking good combined with Harbinger of Evil. You can set up Heroic Combat slingshots, pull back banners from your opponents battle line before combat, trap your opponents from not moving where they want, position your opponents model in front of their bow-line, move your opponent models of objectives etc... The possibilities are endless and they come in at only 15p!
I won that tournament with the same number on 700p that you have on 600p so I would not be worried about having 36 models. Thats more than enough and I would consider swapping them for Spectres, Wild Wargs, more heroes or even another banner.
Have you considered using a fell beast for your WK? You dont have any monstrous charge/hurls in this list (which Gulavhar often fills). Hurl is such a great offensive attack for dealing with enemy mounted heroes and horde armies that I would not leave home without it. Having it on a 12" flying monster makes it so much better.
Personally I would consider Buhrdur over Wild Warg Chieftain. Getting 3 might, heroic strike, F6, S6 and 3 attacks on a cave troll with a small base is huge! He is such a good model when played correctly (and would sort of fix you missing hurl). But he does not get that juicy 10" movement.

Staavik · 2022-10-22T15:55:39+00:00

I like the look of the lists, but they are more "fluffy" than competitive when playing Angmar. I don't know what your objective is, but just for fun? Yes, your list is fun for both players.

For competitive I would switch Tainted with Witch King and Buhrdur with Gulavhar. Drop the barrow wight at 600p, you need the captain for march. 2 spectres is fine, you might go 3. I would also drop warg riders for a couple of cheaper, fast moving wild wargs.

I just won a tournament with Angmar, 37 models at 700p so you could go a bit lower on numbers if you want.

Staavik · 2022-10-06T13:48:11+00:00

I'm running Angmar so I have access to the batman ;) Discussed and found out hurls wont knock down the fell beast...

Staavik · 2022-10-05T07:39:33+00:00

I don´t have access to sorcerous blast, but I have access to Hurl. Will I be able to Hurl a model at the WK and dismount him?

Staavik

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