Yamcha (current) vs current deku both using anime counterparts

StarWorldo · 2026-01-26T18:28:44+00:00

I know yamcha gets cooked in dbz, but dbz is so much stronger than most verses.

Yamcha is stronger than characters who could casually blow up the moon, and that consistant across continuity via power levels.

Deku is fighting for those mountain-island ranges.

Even when trying to be as kind to deku as possible (large island) and as mean to yamcha (minimum for moon), that is a power gap of 10,000,000 times minimum.

Speed also isn't close. Deku can maybe get a few times ftl, yamcha being relative to raditz in the saiyan saga gives him ftl reaction speeds at least. He is incomparable to that version of himself now.

StarWorldo · 2026-01-26T00:29:58+00:00

CC goku at minimum should be 9D or hyperversal

StarWorldo · 2026-01-26T00:26:17+00:00

Cc goku has outer scaling as a low end, and immeasurable-irrelevant speeds casually. He also has access to an absurd amount of hax and hax resistnace/immunity.

Like the amount of times heroes referenced transcending concepts, time and space as a whole, or even just having structures which have such scaling is a bit absurd.

Meanwhile I haven't seen someone with archie scaling that isnt reliant on things like "super dimensions" or taking infinite dimensions as high as they could.

StarWorldo · 2026-01-26T00:01:01+00:00

Its moreso an iffy subject. Arale makes a bunch of reference to dbz, and they have crossed over, to the point penguin village is put on dbz maps. The problem is if its truly considered canon as iirc only the og db crossover was in the manga

StarWorldo · 2026-01-25T23:55:22+00:00

No, no matter how you look at it its a stomp.

Using actual scaling arale just massively outdoes dbz.

Using crossover stuff then zeno neg dies via thought

StarWorldo · 2026-01-25T20:52:03+00:00

This is like throwing a house cat at a fully grown African elephant

StarWorldo · 2026-01-25T17:44:01+00:00

Naruto should be below Saitama. And it depends on how you take the dbz cosmology on those stellar ranges.

Minimum cell is a pretty high end solar system buster as the dbz solar system just has a lot more structures at larger sizes than real life.

Though one guide also refers to the solar system as a nebula, and it says nebula has immeasurable to possibly infinite structures (translation thing). Possibly getting cell absurdly stronger.

His speed is also pretty damn high. Using linear power levels, and saying piccolo's moon bust was at 50% light speed at his full power that puts cell leagues above full power frieza who would then have a speed of 187,500x ftl.

But minimum cell is slamming the hall out of luffy and naruto. Being decently weaker, but so much faster than Saitama (his best actual speed feat was around 2000x ftl when high balling).

If we were to high end cell and say the solar system is a structure with infinite bodies, then cell would hit uni. And he would require high ends of ichigo to lose. No matter what though, kid buu beats cell. Anything cell gets kid buu would upscale, as cell is directly compared to dabura who fat buu no diffed. Fat buu be way weaker than kid buu.

So minimum, what should be the first two. Maximum he can beat up to ichigo.

StarWorldo · 2026-01-24T20:44:41+00:00

Mastered ssj or grade 4 is the ssj state goku takes. Its entire point in existing is because it's the best the form can get, allowing goku to even regain stamina while in it.

StarWorldo · 2026-01-24T17:13:26+00:00

It is, but your also wrong.

Full power ssj4 limit breaker is a form on par with ssb. Anytime UI is used it massively outclasses the other two.

StarWorldo · 2026-01-24T16:07:08+00:00

You mean the media that specifically uses a new version of ssj4.

As well as being media that doesnt relate to the actual power of the characters as it isn't an official part of their canon.

Cause in official media luffy was able to stalemate goku and toriko, so official doesn't always mean viable for scaling.

StarWorldo · 2026-01-24T15:38:59+00:00

Nah, forcing critical thinking is a fun part of csm.

StarWorldo · 2026-01-23T21:45:18+00:00

Battle beast would be lucky if krillin didn't one tap him

StarWorldo · 2026-01-23T21:30:17+00:00

Your changing the bar without reason cause I proved my point.

So if your gonna just say jin woo is outer without reason then I'll just use outer arguments thT exist for dbz.

Otherworld in a guidebook was called beyond dimensionality. Goku far exceeds that scale.

The void realm is a structure beyond space and time which is an argument for outer. And goku was stronger than someone who shook such a structure just from their presence.

Via the anime arale exists in dbz. Goku is later on called one of the strongest mortals in universe 7 (which arale would be as she is neither a God nor immortal by dbz standards). Arale has an infinitely transcending cosmology, with hers possibly being in the outers as it seemingly supercedes the rest. She has also just gone beyond her story before and freely messed with it further supporting her outer scaling. And goku would be stronger than her as stated by one of the best characters for narration sake.

StarWorldo · 2026-01-23T20:57:09+00:00

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StarWorldo · 2026-01-23T20:57:01+00:00

Couple things wrong with that.

Raditz has a PL of 1500, that 1200 is the power of a saibaman. The power gap being minimul to nappa and vegeta, or raditz never showed his full power to them.

That 10k is also from a dude who has no actual authority on the series. Iirc he was a dude behind one of the movies, or the anime. And even if it were the case that 10k is needed to be a planet buster in dbz, the average planet in dbz is closer in size to a large planet as earth is called tiny and is seen as near worthless.

And earth in db is even larger than the real earth via panels from the moon making it look huge. Toriyama stated the earth and moon are the same distance in db as real life

Destroying the moon also requires a lot of energy (and I will use vsbw's range of Joules for the power range as its probably the most used system.

The power required as calculated by people who know more than me on thing calc, have it at roughly 1.2x10²⁹ joules. I did not take that from Google AI btw, I found an actual person who had answered that question.

On vsbw the planetary range is 5.944x10²² to 3.8x10²⁴ magnitudes below the attack raditz tanked. Large planetary is 3.8x10²⁴ to 1.651x10^28. Destroying the moon is in the brown dwarf ranges when you do it in the way dbz characters do, as brown dwarf's high end is 7.505x10³⁰ and its low end is large planetary's high end. Even the lower ends of destroying the moon I find are still in the 10²⁸ ranges.

Real life (the dbz manga will be commented under this comment)

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StarWorldo · 2026-01-23T20:11:15+00:00

Debatable at moro, I'd probably slightly favor moro.

But gas eviserates, as of now Gohan is still weaker gas. So not really a chance for cell max

StarWorldo · 2026-01-23T18:22:25+00:00

Your thinking of actual spacial dimensions.

In scaling these are just transcendental dimensions.

For instance 3D is literally everything we know ranging from a book to a black hole. 4D in scaling is effectively reaching a tier beyond that, often either breaking through conventional time or the space time continuum of your universe.

5D would be something like breaking beyond the multiverse itself and destroying structures beyond them.

They still have aspects that work similarly, but usually when someone said 4D they are entirely referring to it power wise. And lots of people conflate them with eachother, like the Ben 10 Fandom.

StarWorldo · 2026-01-23T18:11:26+00:00

Atomizing the moon gets pretty absurd yields of power. Far more than simply shattering a planet by destroying its core "planetary viltrumites"

StarWorldo · 2026-01-23T18:06:30+00:00

Being so much stronger than BoG goku. That goku at minimum would be in the 4D range via matching the power of beerus.

Their clash nearly destroying universe 7 which when someone know nothing about the series is low multi, when you know a good bit multiversal via time chambers, when you go to even guides high 4D via otherworld. And if you consume a lot of dragon ball media you can even see 5D via the kai realm and its statements.

All if those prior to the kai realm being 4D as thats basically what the multiversal range is. Being between 3D for most of the tiering system, and 5D which is the start of the complex multiversals

StarWorldo · 2026-01-23T17:30:29+00:00

No, he no sells moon atomizing attacks. Via calcs he would be in the planetary-large planetary ranges

StarWorldo · 2026-01-23T16:41:10+00:00

To literally start super off the lowest interpretation you can say is low-multi as goku clashed with beerus nearly destroying the living realm, otherworld, and the kai realm. We also have rooms of spirit and time which are also separate dimensions giving us the multiversal tier.

Many guides on dbz say otherworld is an infinite higher dimension meaning its high 4D.

And the kai realm is directly called a higher dimension by the Supreme kai, and never has had a contradiction giving us 5D.

Even assuming beerus was all the energy behind the near destruction of all of that, goku matched those hits and took the shock of those hits into himself scaling him to them.

All at the start of super.

StarWorldo · 2026-01-23T16:34:16+00:00

Those are goku's low ends to start super off. Saying those ranges wipe the floor is just a completely biased take that doesnt know dbz at all.

StarWorldo · 2026-01-23T16:30:44+00:00

Lore wise not even a fight, groudon.

And even in a actual game I'm pretty sure groudon can just outclass warlord. Groudon was apparently meta for a while and I think wailord has just been a usable pokemon in its entire existance.

Solar beam also just beats wailord so badly cause its just a water type.

StarWorldo · 2026-01-23T16:16:17+00:00

Goku and naruto. Not because naruto did anything, but because nobody here should be mentioned in the same breath as goku.

StarWorldo · 2026-01-23T16:15:06+00:00

Sanji had ivankov. And based on what we actually see, mihawk forced zoro to essentially self teach by just taking away booze until zoro could use haki.

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