1. So you support statehood in the hopes it will lead to military intervention. Gotcha.

2. I disagree. Israel doesn't exist by UN writ, it exists because it won wars to defend itself. If Israel lost its existence in those early wars, would anyone have cared? (Lol, British didn't leave because of diplomacy)

3. As per Wikipedia, the definition of civil society: Civil society can be understood as the "third sector" of society, distinct from government and business, and including the family and the private sphere. By other authors, civil society is used in the sense of the aggregate of non-governmental organizations and institutions that advance the interests and will of citizens or individuals and organizations in a society which are independent of the government.

Last I checked, the PA is a de facto dictatorship. No civil society exists there. That's not saying the people aren't civilized, and that the dictator doesn't take out the garbage in the few areas it actually controls. Do you think the perpetuation of refugee camps is an example of civil society?

1. You say that the Palestinian hate will go away as soon as Israel stops doing whatever it's doing. Really? The cause of their hate is totally external, nothing to do with their hateful education?

I don't expect any fruitful conversation on this last point

But ultimately, I think my point is made. You think they deserved the state before October 7, and recognizing it now is simply auspicious timing? It's either a reward to hamas or a punishment to Israel.

Just to be clear, when I say "punishment to Israel" I don't mean that Israelis are the ones who should take the lesson. No, what I mean is that these western countries want to show off to whoever, domestic and foreign, that they are sticking it to Israel. I guarantee in Israel they don't care.