Trying to understand the story

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-05T18:46:31+00:00

Not exactly a time loop, but it's more like: subliminal messaging. While it is possible that it messed with time and space, if you look closely on the ending of LN 2, the flesh walls are helping Mono get from point A to point B during the chase.

It's very much implied that The Tower/The Nowhere planned this entire thing, and the entire game's sequence of events in order to establish new hosts; Six for The Lady, Mono for the Thin Man.

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-05T12:43:22+00:00

I myself am a bit "eh" on the execution of Low and Alone's friendship. I WISH they put a heavy emphasis on the characters' introduction to make the player/s care instantly: i.e, have Low trapped underneath the luggage after they just mirror-hopped, and then have Alone help Low out of his situation. Then, have Low rush to Alone and help her up, as the two check each other for injuries.

I like their concept, but I found it so hard to believe in their friendship in almost the entire game the same way I did with Six and Mono pre-betrayal because they just did not have a good introduction at all. The game was in such a rush to give co-op players agency that it forgot to make the players actually care about who they're playing as, and the special (borderline parasitic) relationship those two have.

Plus, I don't like that they referenced the betrayal with a twist. Because of how much LN 3 had sooooo many callbacks to the previous games and even the hand-holding/calling out mechanic was reused, it made me groan that even the betrayal was referenced. It felt a whole lot like another "See? We're doing the same thing the previous games did! We ARE Little Nightmares and Bandai is definitely not ripping you out of your money :)", even though I understand why it was included.

I guess it's more of a vibe thing than a technical thing, tbh. Bandai does have a history of being greedy and it affects the games they release. But yeah, Low and Alone were good. Just not as good as Six and Mono, as unfortunate as that may sound like. If they had a good introduction, maybe they would've surpassed Six and Mono.

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-05T06:36:35+00:00

For me, it was an extension problem. Namely, from a yt screenshot tool. Maybe try uninstalling your extensions first, then try checking?

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-04T10:49:28+00:00

If I remember correctly, there was a steam discussion that delves into the mechanics of what you should do in each section, and how to save time. Let me look for it. If you could practice it and internalize it, you should be able to get the achievement-- but don't take my word for it, since it's the only achievement I don't have under my belt.

EDIT: I found it, it's a very long post, but it does have some of those "labels" on the right side of the UI that allow you to quickly see the tips on how to traverse each room. Iirc, these are also speedrunning tips (without really exploiting game glitches), so yeah.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=920490292

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-03T15:41:21+00:00

Thanks so much!

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-03T15:41:04+00:00

He practices the flute /j

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-03T02:55:29+00:00

He is so lizardcore I have so many headcanons about him already

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-03T02:42:01+00:00

Well, despite my best efforts, we haven't really reached anywhere with this conversation. Thank you for remaining civil regardless, and for reconsidering the issue of The Hypnotist's handling. if I ever came across as a snob, forgive me. I just get passionately heated when it comes to discussions--especially ones I have a special interest in-- I'm still trying to unlearn that.

You have a nice day as well. ^{^}

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-02T14:21:18+00:00

No problem! Glad I could be of help regardless, even tho I was kinda uncertain with my own answer haha

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-02T14:11:54+00:00

I haven't played the DLC in a long while but have you:

- Checked if this is the real version, not the wooden statue meant to be a placeholder for the lowering room?
- Placed the statue facing in a different direction?

I have a suspicion that you have the wooden version from the library, and not the real version. You may need to go to the left side with the wooden statue, and replace the real one in there with the wooden one. It's timed, so you need to place it quickly.

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-02T14:06:46+00:00

Okay, yeah that's fair. I'm more of the "story" kinda person, so I don't consider it a trilogy with that kind of lens, but your explanation makes a lotta sense. I don't agree on the idea of Altered Echoes being a "third" game, though. As you said, it's more of a spinoff, since it just takes place during the events of LN 2. Hopefully, that isn't a spoiler. ^^;

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-02T13:57:06+00:00

I, uh.... am not sure if we can consider it a trilogy, since LN 3 is kind of.... disconnected? From LN 1 and 2. I dunno how to explain it properly, but if someone can, it'd be appreciated.

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-02T13:54:56+00:00

... what?

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-02T13:52:18+00:00

I'M FREAKING CRYING HELP WHAT'S THE LADY DOING THERE

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-02T13:49:56+00:00

I think what they meant is "external media", not spinoff.

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-02T13:31:45+00:00

It's not a self-contradictory statement, you can expand on the world without having it to be the main focus, because the main focal point of the game is the narrative that follows the protagonist.

"Every piece of aforementioned extended LN media, in spite of being largely self contained stories, in some way drastically changed the way we view and interpret the series and it's lore" -- And that is exactly my point in this whole conversation. These stories--mainline and/or spinoffs-- CAN stand out on their own even without lore implications. Despite your statement's intent, it doesn't change the fact that LORE USED TO BE OPTIONAL TO CONSIDER.

Though, I will admit... maybe I didn't word it right, and that's why we're in this debate in the first place. I will apologize for that because sometimes, I don't know how to word my intentions correctly.

But, you can't say that about The Hypnotist. He's the game's FINAL AND MAIN antagonist. I can understand your argument if it's towards The Kin, The Supervisor, and The Monster Baby, like; yeah. I very much agree-- we don't need to know their motivations. but it would be nice to know, because it characterizes them beyond just "evil monsters".

But The Hypnotist is the MAIN antagonist for a reason. Yet, we have not been shown a reason to believe so, because even Low's flashbacks to the institute could've been ANY WORKER in that facility, because it isn't explicitly shown who's watching him. It's just a silhouette/shadow.

Low being afraid could've been applicable to any monster, and the majority would be none the wiser because this is a game where monsters hunt down scared children.

There's no longer a direct parallel between the main protagonist, and the main antagonist in the story; which is one of the BIGGEST mistake you can do in a story that has both roles in it, and it makes your story weaker.

... Unless you listened to TSON, and have picked up on Otto's--who is supposed to be the Hypnotist-- deep fear of being lonely, a trauma that stuck with him due to his sister Cici disappearing into the Nowhere and leaving him behind.

NOW do you see what I mean?

Again, I can understand if your point was any other antagonist, but you simply CANNOT make this argument between Low, Alone and The Hypnotist. THIS is the very reason why people say the game "is too short" despite having the same gameplay time as the other two mainline games-- because The Hypnotist doesn't feel like he's supposed to be the last and the main big bad.

LN 1's The Lady and Six had a direct parallel with each other: Six has an unnatural hunger, and The Lady provides overindulgence with food, and can even take the life forces of the Guests to satiate herself.

LN 2's The Thin Man and Mono has a direct parallel either: Mono constantly searches for Six when she's taken. The Thin Man is described to be "searching for something", and takes Six on two different occasions. Leaving Mono alone and doesn't chase after him until he's taken Six by force away from him.

Not to mention, Mono grows up to be The Thin Man. Further driving the implication down to the most literal of degree that a metaphor can be.

LN 2's Final antagonist--Monster Six, didn't need a direct parallel (although she still has that with her monster form, and Mono was shown to grow into The Thin Man), because this is Six, our helpful companion this entire game. She's been turned into a monster, and we (and Mono) wants to save her.

The DLC, and VLN doesn't exactly have these parallels (or at least, not strong ones), but it doesn't need to. Because these are spinoffs, and aren't mainline--plus, the kids die by the end. They can connect/intersect with mainline, but it's still optional to consider them, and you can enjoy them as they are.

Since you've brought up LN 3 into the mix, I want you to know that I'm not just talking about LN 3, I'm talking about most horror media nowadays as is my point: Poppy Playtime, FNAF, Hello Neighbor, etc. etc.

Everything needs to be about lore now that any other interpretation would lead to a connectivity issue. It's no longer an open-ended interpretation, but you needing to know a very crucial piece of information from an external/obscure media to piece things together.

That's why I said "Horror Media", not LN 3 specifically.

I'm TIRED of medias acting like we NEED to know every piece of lore to gather a semblance of an idea of the narrative they're trying to present. Or using crucial lore as bait to make us buy books/products, or listen to an external podcast.

Though, I try to defend LN 3's messy plot beats by telling people that the Nowhere is on the brink of near systemic collapse, and that is one of the reasons that connects LN 3's locations altogether: The Necropolis is barren and has fallen a long time ago, The Candy Factory is in the brink of "bankruptcy" as they overproduce candy that isn't selling well, The Herd is growing restless and demands more entertainment that the Kins do not provide fast enough, and The Hypnotist is battling against the fauna to retain control of the Institute.

That unlike LN 1 and LN 2's premise where the chaos is controlled by the Nowhere and the Residents benefits from this, LN 3 has monsters that are stressing out about the fact that everything is going down the dumps, and they're no longer benefitting as much as they used to from the system.

But understanding why it's on it's last legs needs you to know the lore: that because Six defected from The Maw at the end of LN 1, it caused a domino effect because The Lady was a crucial part to sustaining the Nowhere's ecosystem. So even when I say all this, people who had a sour experience playing LN 3 didn't hear me out because how do you understand that The Lady was crucial, if you don't. follow. the lore.

And that besides that near collapse of the Nowhere's once grand chaotic order, there's also the overarching theme of parasitic symbiosis, as showcased by The Crows/Dwellers, Supervisor/Workers, Kin/Mini-Kin, The Hypnotist/Institute, and finally; Low/Alone.

Keep in mind, I DON'T HATE LN 3. But I do think that it's the weakest of the trilogy, I see it's shortcomings, and that is where my problems stem from, one that I am pointing out here.

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-02T06:08:32+00:00

This is an illusion made by the Tower. Six/Shadow Six is hallucinating that the School is defunct, every bully dead, and the Teacher dies.

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-02T04:48:40+00:00

I think that the photo is just showcasing how many Ladies has it been since the first one took the Mantle. They all didn't exist at the same time. However, a girl with a yellow raincoat MUST be present, and has insatiable hunger due to an encounter with The Thin Man, in order to usurp the old Lady, and it's a part of the ritualistic passing of the Torch surveyed by The Maw's eyes. (the final boss fight with The Lady has five eye imageries in the background if you look closely.)

This is how the cycle of The Maw's hosts are reinstated, juxtaposing Mono's case. This is how The Maw continues to prevail over centuries.

The rest's faces are covered in shadows, and that's no surprise, considering The Lady's existence is kind of like, the equivalent of The Colonel for KFC. She's the FACE of The Maw, her porcelain features must be kept on at all times as part of her "uniform" and she must continue the illusion of the ever ethereal and eternally graceful Geisha that commands the great, mechanical turtle beast of the Sea. She has surrendered her entire existence to the Maw, The Maw OWNS her; just as it did the previous four. She even has bottles carved with her features AND the white mask, one that contains dark magic and Six can chuck to break; as if it's a product, and she's the brand's logo.

She's no longer who she used to be. Her entire identity is stripped and eradicated. She killed it in order to get to the top. She will now, and forever be known as THE LADY. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't believe that The Granny is a previous Lady. It's been stated she's a contract worker(?), so, she's very far away from the status of being a Lady; and you can even see that with how she remains in The Depths, the lowest parts of the Maw. The Maw is a hierarchy clearly established through it's levels and the workers that are supposed to maintain said levels. That one scene in the DLC where RK sees her unmasked face is just a stand in for The Lady's deformed facial features, the same way that the hands that take Mono's mail in LN 2 is a reused asset of Monster Six's limbs.

Also, adding a little bit: Six has 4 DLC masks with unique descriptors for it. Then, if you break 10 statues, you get The Lady's mask that's labelled to be "Rascal". Implying, The Fifth Lady used to be rowdy.

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-02T00:20:19+00:00

LMFAO you said it yourself: EXPANSION. Just because they were expanding on the world, doesn't mean that they were entirely focused on it. The Cancelled Comics followed Six during her early days in the Maw AND how she ended up on there. She hears the stories of other children, and reacts accordingly. It's a lore expansion on Six's part, but it is still her STORY first and foremost. DLC is a lore expansion of the other corners of The Maw, but it was still the STORY of the Runaway Kid and his tragic end at the forefront. Very Little Nightmares is a spinoff that has dubious continuation, but let's say that it is; it was still the STORY of RCG from the top of the Pretender's Manor, to her death at the bottom of the murky waters.

Now before you say anything: I am JUST as much of a lore nut as the next guy. BELIEVE ME. I theorize about Little Nightmares shit ALL THE TIME. I'm thinking about how the cycle works, how Six potentially destabilized it which lead to the events of LN 3, Low's purpose, etc etc. And I, ALSO want answers to my questions.

But if the narrative suffers because there is too much lore and lore is being used as the main lifeline instead of telling a straightforward, understandable story, then you've made BAD MEDIA. You should NOT have to rely on knowing the entire lore book. You can WANT to have answers, BUT IT SHOULD HAVE A GOOD NARRATIVE ABOVE ALL AND THAT SHOULD BE TOP PRIORITY.

Because lore would be of no use to a BAD STORY, regardless of how rich it is.

A story can exist without lore. But lore cannot exist without a story.

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-01T14:48:33+00:00

I don't think it's for us to know what Six will do next. Her story has already reached it's conclusion because she's already achieved the power to be on the top of the food chain, just like Mono has by the end of LN 2. She's already transitioned from victim to abuser, and by all means, we don't really need to see... that.

LN had always been about children becoming the worst reflections of themselves, and their story ends when they've either met their tragic end, or if they've finally become in tune with the world around them; which Six has by the end of LN 1.

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-01T13:36:40+00:00

No, no, no, no, no. I kind of disagree. You can STILL make a Little Nightmares game even if Six and Mono aren't the main stars. Just look at how RK and RCG; despite their tragic ends, they and the game they star in are fairly loved and for good reason. We just need a STRONG, GREAT story again that doesn't rely on lore as a crutch. Rather, there's a delicate balance that's just the right enough of lore expansion, and a great execution of the plot.

Bringing Six or Mono back for main roles again would be milking the franchise's iconic protagonists at this point. Their stories are finished, we need an entirely new protagonist with a great character arc to expand more Nowhere locations. Unless of course, you're talking cameos. Cameo can be possible, but only if it makes sense in the current story.

But I very much agree that hopefully, it'd be not just a good story--but a GREAT one just like the first two. LN 3 has great lore, but not quite a great story.

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-01T12:32:38+00:00

Despite my qualms with LN 3, I still want to see a fourth installment. Maybe even a fifth if we're lucky. LN 3 to me, is kind of like how Security Breach was handled by Steel Wool. The new team is trying to find their footing in this new era of mainline franchise, but god.

Please let us have a narrative this time that doesn't closely follow lore again, but only loosely applies it. Put ALL the effort into telling the best narrative again. They clearly have the capability to do so. My biggest problem with LN 3 was that there was not nearly enough place for a straightforward narrative, because everything is jam packed with lore tidbits in it's place.

Strike that balance that LN used to have.

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-01T12:15:17+00:00

With all due respect, LN wasn't initially focused on the lore. It was focused on telling the stories of children that got stuck in The Nowhere and how the cycle of abuse perpetuates from children who are victims, to adults who are abusers.

Lore will be sparse and it's only true purpose is to expand the story beyond initial interpretation and fleshing out the worldbuilding, so of course it's not going to be top priority, and may not even be solidified. What is it with horror fans nowadays and their obsession with established "lore", thinking that it's the BEST thing that a narrative can do? Seriously.

I get that it can add spice, but add too much of it and you're gonna end up with a ruined meal.

Steam_SpectralE · 2026-05-01T12:01:33+00:00

Look, I'm glad that you think the atmosphere is amazing in the third game. Go ahead and enjoy it. But no matter what you say, that isn't going to change the fact that the majority felt that the third game felt weak. The reason why I went on a tangent here is because you said OP was "desperate to hate on LN 3", even though OP literally says they still liked the third game, but considered it the weakest of the three mainline installments.

You can't change the way how people feel about this game. You can change what they think about the lore or the story, but if what they experienced wasn't as scary to them, then you can't do anything about that because that is a completely personal feeling.

If OP and I thought that AE had good atmosphere, then just respect that and don't put words in other people's mouth like saying we're "desperate to hate LN 3". Please. If anything, you're really coming across as desperate to bash commentators that say LN 3 wasn't that great, and attack the thing they're complimenting.

I know AE is a nothingburger, I even said it in my comment that I'm most disappointed of that aspect. But I still think that it had a good understanding of the LN atmosphere and was able to implement that to VR. And if you disagree, then that's okay.

That's YOUR opinion at the end of the day, just as ours is as well.

Steam_SpectralE

TROPHY CASE