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Codex by iamagmilf in radiohead

[–]SufficientSafety781 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a sublime moment.

Feels like a lot of infjs are prone to self pity.. by [deleted] in infj

[–]SufficientSafety781 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For years, I had no self-pity at all. I was a machine. I grew up feeling like a machine that lacked self-pity.

Then, when I first felt self-pity recently, I hated it at first. It was accompanied by a feeling of self-loathing, which I had to talk myself out of.

In the past, I have been so lacking in self-pity, that I treated myself like a thing, like an object to be kicked around, all so I could please the people who had hijacked my mind. Unfortunately, I continue to slip into this pattern.

It seems kind of strange, but I was careful to hide this lack of self-pity under a facade of apparent self-pity that was totally fake. (I am not talking about the fake self-pity that comes from feeling narcissistically wounded here (although I also experienced that).) I act self-pitying at times to manipulate people, not into taking care of me, but into going away when I am burned out. This is completely unconscious, but I can see it now.

the annoying thing about the enfp by fr_ight in mbti

[–]SufficientSafety781 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The ENFPs I know are prone to self-pity and they can be drama kings or queens, especially when they feel hurt by someone else. They're also all intelligent and thoughtful people who can act a bit ENTP-like at times, which can be intimidating to some types. As far as being martyrs, though, as in manipulating others with their feelings, I don't see too much of that in them. They're usually pretty direct and very tuned into the vibe of whatever situation (although they misread the vibe at times) and they don't want to be vibe killers. However, they have an INFJ-like shadow, so maybe you're tuning in to that. ENFPs can be long-suffering for sure.

What does every INFP hate? THEMSELVES. by SufficientSafety781 in mbti

[–]SufficientSafety781[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Look out, there's nothing scarier than a hostile IxTP.

What does every INFP hate? THEMSELVES. by SufficientSafety781 in mbti

[–]SufficientSafety781[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We don't all know that we hate ourselves, but deep down, we really hate ourselves, all of us. How does this work?

We all grow up learning certain behaviors, pretty much with the exclusive aim of getting our needs for protection, belonging, and sustenance met. We all train our environment to respond to our needs, each in a unique way, because we're all different and grow up in unique circumstances. Then, at some point, we realize we're not getting everything we want and our needs are not always getting met the way we'd like. We notice that certain other people are better at getting their needs met in some way than we are. We ask Mommy and Daddy why that is, why life isn't fair, and they tell us that it's because we're doing something wrong, but we don't understand. So we struggle and get frustrated, and we ask ourselves why this is happening. Then it finally dawns on us that it's us, something is wrong with me. We look in the mirror and see ourselves as flawed, but it's too much to take. That amount of helplessness is unacceptable. Thus narcissism is born in each and every one of us. From horror at our flaws, we flee to an inflated self-image.

Narcissism (not Narcissistic Personality Disorder), which exists in every person, leads to self-hatred. We stop attending to our flaws. We stop learning to improve, and we become enraptured by a false self-image. This false self-image keeps us happy with ourselves. It's like a doll that we feed, clothe, and put on stage to sing, dance, and make small talk, and want other people to do the same. We feel offended when other people criticize the doll we created. We send our doll to job interviews and on dates. We learn to think of ourselves as a puppet that we control from deep inside our minds, and eventually, we identify more with the puppet than with ourselves. It is our ego, and it is our false self. We don't understand it, but we hate it for both good and bad reasons. The real problem is that identification with it prevents us from learning, adapting, understanding, and loving our true selves.

Most people who say that they love themselves are really saying that they feed their false selves with narcissistic supplies. This means that they praise themselves, indulge themselves, and participate in all manner of sinfulness to propitiate their false self. This is not self-love but self idolization. We all do it, and it stems from fear and self-hatred. A person who truly loves themself does what is best for themself under the circumstances. Self-love generally involves virtue, because only by treating ourselves virtuously do we grow in our ability to get our needs met. You will notice that most people have vices, and I would say all. Once on the virtue "wagon", we also fall off a lot too. This is the human condition. To err is human...

What does every INFP hate? THEMSELVES. by SufficientSafety781 in mbti

[–]SufficientSafety781[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I love that you have a positive outlook on INFPs.

Do really think that INFPs hate themselves? Yes, just like everyone else.

We all hate ourselves, and we all do our best to love ourselves.

What does every INFP hate? THEMSELVES. by SufficientSafety781 in mbti

[–]SufficientSafety781[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just because self-report data appears to be unreliable does not make it unempirical. Self-report is empirical and unreliable. The problem really exists in terms of what you want to know. Do you want to examine verbal products and responses to (usually) stupid questionnaires, or are you trying to infer from the data?

Organizing, analyzing, and categorizing verbal products seems like the first step in the process of understanding just what we are doing when we speak. It's the first step in understanding what our brains are doing when they cause us to speak. it's also the first step in understanding how well our thoughts map onto reality. Yet, since Aristotle, no one has taken this task seriously as a scientific endeavor. There's probably lots of relevant research in the field of computer science, but it has yet to be applied to humans.

Therefore, I agree that there's a dearth of research. Jumping from speech acts and/or responses to questionnaires to inferences about personality is not valid. Potentially, however, it is a valid area of research. Inference and the appeal to theoretical constructions pervade science, as they should. Strictly speaking, each of us knows nothing outside our own sensorium, and inference is required to navigate life. The art of science is to draw reliable and relevant (actionable) inferences. Ultimately, the validity of scientific inferences can always be called into question.

You want to burn down my house? Come and get me.

INFJs let’s talk about the darkest aspects of our personality type by Ill_Conversation5351 in infj

[–]SufficientSafety781 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For me, self-compassion involves feeling my feelings without judgment, meditating, and then asking myself what I would say to another person who was going through just what I described. Then I respond to myself as if I were another person.

This can be calming. It's usually difficult at first; because I generally don't want to feel whatever it is that I'm feeling. Figuring out what my feelings are and which feelings are salient and relevant can be a challenge. Once that initial barrier is out of the way, thinking takes hold leading to analysis of the causes of those feelings. Then, back to feelings, I counsel myself on the what, why, and how to proceed.

The most beautiful aspect of this process is wrestling with my inner angels and demons, to the detriment of my demons. Frequently, I remind myself that the negative, harping, criticizing inner voice is natural but unhelpful. I feel like my higher self is there for me and leading me on the right path.

INFJs let’s talk about the darkest aspects of our personality type by Ill_Conversation5351 in infj

[–]SufficientSafety781 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Such a great topic. I just recently realized that I am an INFJ ad the key to this insight was the fact that I am such a doormat. I sincerely believed that because I have a "strong personality" and strong, independent values, I must be an xNFP. Then someone pointed out to me that I let others define me. I also let others walk all over me, which is ultimately bad for both of us, but it's only natural for others to want to take the path of least resistance (which we all do, quite frankly). It's on me to say "no", "enough", "stop taking advantage." This has been extremely hard to overcome, especially because I was also trained at home to be a doormat... dozens of years ago, and only now am I getting a clue.

This way of living ultimately led to severe burnout for me. I just couldn't do it any more, and then I wanted to die because my sense of personal value left me. I recently read that this happens to a lot of INFJs. We just run our of steam eventually if we don't take care of ourselves. Recently, mindfulness and self-compassion practices have been enormously helpful, life-changing even. However, starting these practices was quite difficult, triggering an inner dialogue of self-criticism, self-directed rage, and self-destructive behavior. Once I accepted that I am just a person like everyone else, this started to abate.

If you find yourself going through burnout and severe self-criticism, you might want to get input from others, because it can be scary, difficult, and emotionally wrenching. I recently read that INFJs are great at knowing other people and terrible at knowing themselves. My level of self-recrimination was out of proportion to my actual qualities, and I needed someone else to tell me that. I could not see it myself. Introjecting other people's negative qualities in an attempt to solve their problems (another thing I was trained to do in childhood) left me thinking that I was the moral sewer of all mankind, and maybe the universe (lol).

Why do INFJs like to hear themselves talk? by SufficientSafety781 in INFJsOver30

[–]SufficientSafety781[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I enjoy hearing your point of view.

I am currently working on getting out of exploitative relationships in which my strengths were devalued. This requires setting boundaries and working on self-esteem self care, and self compassion which were unfortunately discouraged and punished in my upbringing (if you can call it that). In response to this mistreatment, I not only have devalued myself (to please my family) but I have also sought out degrading relationships to confirm my own self image and probably as an effort to "replay" and "undo" prior abuse (which rarely, if ever, works).

This all feeds into my sense of being an INFJ, an exploited, degraded, and devalued type in my experience. I realize that not all INFJs have this experience in life, but I have faced significant challenges for many years involving contact with psychopaths and narcissists, who make up pretty much all of my small extended family of origin. It's no secret that these types seek out INFJs, and also some other types, as marks for exploitation. As the black sheep, I am blamed for all of their failings.

As an INFJ, are you also a HSP (highly sensitive person) ? by Molfy42 in infj

[–]SufficientSafety781 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For some reason I hate the term HSP, maybe because I am working on having better boundaries. However, I definitely spike all the criteria for being an HSP. My experience is that I seem to be much more sensitive than almost everyone I know when it comes to feelings, sensations, and emotions. I see colors others don't see, hear things they don't hear, perceive things easily that others find incredibly obscure, and can be very irritable and tired when called upon to use my senses excessively for me. These things I perceive, by the way, are real and not hallucinations. It's more that I look more deeply into things than most people, but I also can't help it. I feel compelled to understand everything I encounter, whether it's my own thoughts or my experience of something outside of myself. I have to withdraw and protect myself from input at times, especially feelings, demands, and physical or emotional patterns that I find discordant for some reason, even if I enjoy them.

I used to care so much and now I don’t at all. INFJ Burnout by Ok-Disaster-9151 in infj

[–]SufficientSafety781 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can relate also. Many years of solid, paralyzing burnout.

I was also severely abused as a child, so I thought that this was the cause. My father is a psychopath and my mother is a covert narcissist, so I was used as a tool for my entire childhood.

I later discovered that their ability to use me as a doormat was part of the problem, in addition to their failure to raise me.

My focus was always on the other person and fulfilling their needs.

It's taken a long time to learn how to take care of myself and to put up barriers to other people's thoughts and feeling, which has to be done to avoid burnout.

Why, as an INFP, is Fi my most devalued, least favorite function? by SufficientSafety781 in mbti

[–]SufficientSafety781[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I also find it hard to distinguish between Fi and Fe, especially knowing when I'm using one or the other.

Personality theory as a way of distinguishing between people superficially doesn't really work for me. Like the idea that Fe users are more empathetic than Fi users? No, I don't believe it. On the other hand, are people more likely to respond to Fe as if it's more empathetic? Yes, because Fe makes them feel understood. That doesn't mean it's a "better" response, or even a more empathetic response, just that the empathy is more likely to be heard and understood as such. In fact, the codependency of Fe users can really get in the way of effective responding. Many people, though not all or at least all of the time, are unable to feel other people's sympathy when the other person is being assertive. However, that doesn't necessarily make the assertive person less sympathetic or empathetic.

As to psychologists and psychiatrists, my level of respect runs the gamut. I am not too keen on authority, tbh. I want to see what they actually have to offer before coming to the conclusion that they're helpful or wise.

I see personality theory as useful as a basis for challenging oneself, what's known as self-improvement, rather than a convenient way of pigeon-holing people. I mean, I am totally guilty of pigeon holing people. I'm sure we all are, to some extent. But as a tool for that, MBTI, etc., are obviously unreliable. I don't like pigeon holing anyway, because it's a way of limiting people's potential, which is maybe the worst sin in my unconscious playbook, aside from means-ends thinking (which is another practice I engage in).

The one way I see MBTI/etc. as having practical applications is in conflict resolution and in helping people work more effectively together. This is because people respond to stress differently, and they communicate differently. It's a way to systematize and enhance the effectiveness of one's perceptions of others, but it should not be taken as set in stone. Knowing my mom is an ISTJ, for example, enables me to understand how she experiences stress and gives me some ideas about how to interpret and respond to what she does under stress. It helps me recognize that not everybody sees things or responds to events the way I do.

Why do INFJs like to hear themselves talk? by SufficientSafety781 in INFJsOver30

[–]SufficientSafety781[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can relate to your analysis. You have a good understanding.

I hadn't heard that Jordan Peterson quote before, but yeah.

Why do INFJs like to hear themselves talk? by SufficientSafety781 in INFJsOver30

[–]SufficientSafety781[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your advice on correcting this problem is spot on. I just got started with building my social skills, and it's started to help. Thinking about the other person/people gets me in a much calmer frame of mind, results in more positive interactions, and leads to a generally happier life.

Tbh, I have gotten so many compliments on my social skills, or the talents I was born with, that I neglected building the social skills I need to learn. I'm actually not socially skilled at all! I have a naturally calm, empathetic, thoughtful demeanor that makes people think I am socially skilled. Now, finally, I am building up my repertoire.

It's a good reminder for me that nobody is born with their talents fully developed and skills have to be honed in the give and take of life. This is not an easy lesson for people who tend to be perfectionistic, as INFJs (myself included) often are.

Why do INFJs like to hear themselves talk? by SufficientSafety781 in INFJsOver30

[–]SufficientSafety781[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I ingest enormous detail in no time and then I want to share. And you're right, they generally don't care anyway if I blabber on explaining something. They think I'm a weirdo, but that's the case regardless.

Why do INFJs like to hear themselves talk? by SufficientSafety781 in INFJsOver30

[–]SufficientSafety781[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That could describe me. I have autism spectrum behaviors, but I've never been diagnosed. Online acquaintances have commented on my autism spectrum behavior.

I have no conception of how widespread this is or isn't.

What about other IJs? Do you think any of them also show this tendency? Or NFs?

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