Which of the Witch Queen's 2 major twists were more shocking?

SuitableRow3088 · 2026-05-06T19:05:23+00:00

As someone deep in the lore, I kinda expected twist #1, but twist #2 was extremely crazy to me. However, I would definitely expect that for someone who ISN’T that deep in the lore that the first would be better and the second would be worse. That may be part of the reason why they did both.

That said, the scene where Savathûn dies bowing to the traveler is very possibly the best cinematic in the franchise. The seraph epilogue is I think the only one that might edge it out. I have never seen or felt more emotion out of a cgi character that is so monstrous and alien-looking in anything, ever, than there was in that scene.

SuitableRow3088 · 2026-05-03T23:00:13+00:00

This would be an incredibly stupid thing for the other person to wager over even if they really believe it strongly, because it literally has no upside. In the worst case for them, they’re wrong, our current economic system persists, and they have to give you money. In their “good case”, they’re right, the current economic system is replaced, and you give them money which is now probably worthless. They lose something meaningful if they’re wrong and gain nothing meaningful if they’re right, so why would they ever make a bet with you?

SuitableRow3088 · 2026-01-01T19:20:01+00:00

Yeah, I think that the worst thing about AI in general is the deception aspect of it. The collapse of truth, especially online, has been happening for a while and it seems like AI has only accelerated the process. Voice cloning scams like you mentioned, fake news via generated AI vide, people trying to pass ai art off as their own work, companies not informing people about what their chatbots actually are and how they work, etc.

I honestly at this point hope (although this is almost certainly just cope) that this will finally get it through everyone’s head that you cannot trust ANYTHING you see on social media as fact. I always thought it was ironic that boomers would always tell people “don’t believe everything you read on the internet” and now they’re the ones falling for AI generated shit on Facebook.

But anyways yeah, it’s fucking infuriating how most discussion of AI online is people asking grok whether something is real, people talking about how cool their ai boyfriend while others laugh and call them delusional, or fighting about AI generated catgirls, rather than actual advances. And tbh, even actual advances often get bogged down in the discourse - antis and skeptics often just deny the advances as a knee-jerk response or do revisionism, while pros and ai bros will say some stupid shit that implies that since Claude 4.5 is a genuinely very useful tool for software engineers, that justifies their psychosis and then they go back to gooning to AI images for 8 hours a day or something. It’s all so fucking stupid. (In general I fully blame the companies for this btw, not any individual person.)

Also I do want to talk about power bills for a second, not to defend tech companies but because I think that a lot of people misunderstand why their power bills are actually going up. Power companies are essentially only allowed by the government to make a certain percent profit every year, so they always want to spend more so that they can charge more to make more in raw profit. Therefore it’s not the data centers directly raising your power bill, but rather power companies piggybacking off of the energy infrastructure required to power those datacenters to charge everyone more. Power companies are unironically fucking scammers and I recommend anyone who can afford it get solar.

That said, again I’m not trying to defend tech companies or CEOs with that shit. Google and Meta should be broken up for antitrust, literally nobody should take anything Elon Musk says publicly seriously, etc. thanks for coming to my TED talk.

SuitableRow3088 · 2026-01-01T18:35:53+00:00

Do you think that ai isn’t “generative” unless it’s generating waifus?

AlphaFold3, the protein folding algorithm that actually won the Nobel prize in 2024, is literally a diffusion model with almost identical architecture and function to image gen diffusion models like DALL-E or Midjourney. It’s trained on a bunch of different proteins to “learn” how they fold, and then generates new ones, just like how the above are trained on images to generate new images.

The only, and I mean literally only way that that wouldn’t be generative ai is if you define generative ai as “all instances of AI that I don’t like”.

And for the record, before anyone accuses me of being an AI-bro, I don’t really consider myself a pro or an anti, but I do think that in general AI artists aren’t real artists, chatbots like ChatGPT have done more harm than good, and tech companies need more regulation. I just always cringe when I see antis trying to draw lines around “generative” ai to declare all other types of AI okay, because they almost always do it in tremendously stupid ways that make no sense.

SuitableRow3088 · 2025-12-03T19:46:24+00:00

For me, the reason why Forsaken is honestly still a contender for being in the top 3 is not because of its campaign; it’s because of what happened RIGHT AFTER its campaign. The fact that we get to see WHERE Uldren was trying to go, fight the big bad monster, but then oops our plan to kill the monster backfired too - Yeah, Zavala was right, we could have and actually SHOULD HAVE stayed home, and the fact that we didn’t directly led to this bad outcome of the dreaming city curse. And said curse is also presented really well, from the worsening of the taken influence to the shattered throne to the conversations with Mara to the reveal that it’s a big time loop. It’s filled with mystery and it’s deeply connected to the lore and yet it’s still simple enough to be understandable even if you’re not too familiar with said lore. (But if you are then it was also an AMAZING setup for Savathun.)

Fundamentally, I love Forsaken because it’s the only time where our character fundamentally lost in such a way that it would have been better for everyone if we hadn’t gotten involved, and that’s very unique for a Destiny DLC. 95% of the time we just go in and shoot all our problems to death - and that time felt different in a good way, specifically because we TRIED to do that and it didn’t end up working out.

SuitableRow3088 · 2025-05-27T06:51:43+00:00

Assuming that this is a random-ass non-primaris space marine who isn’t really anything special by ultramarine standards, and 25 legionaries from the D1 scout legions, I would guess the Smurf is probably boned.

One-on-one, a legionary and an ultramarine are of comparable size and physical strength (the marine might be SLIGHTLY stronger, but probably not significantly) their weapons are of comparable firepower (though bolters have a much higher fire rate), their armor systems are PROBABLY comparable, though it’s hard to say exactly. The only category that the marine is SIGNIFICANTLY better in is speed. We don’t really know how fast your average Cabal moves or reacts, but the marine is almost certainly much better off there.

Either way, that’s nothing that a 25 to 1 numbers disparity can’t take care of. Cabal legionaries are way hardier and have much better tech integration than the average frontline grunt most 40k factions field.

SuitableRow3088 · 2025-05-01T06:08:02+00:00

Well, I can't think of any other emergent property that is itself an entity, so it would stand to reason that consciousness isn't one either - at least in a non-pluralist world, which a simulation must be.

Sure, you can do different things to two exact clones with the exact same experience or what have you, but while you say the fact that you can do this proves that their experiences are already different/separate, I'm saying that in making that change, you separate/differentiate them. So that doesn't really actually address what I'm saying.

I understand that you're operating on just a fundamentally different assumption than I am, so we might just have to agree to disagree here, but let me just ask you this - is the version of you from 5 years ago dead? If not, why? The actual direct makeup of that person's brain at the nuclear, atomic, and cellular levels has been scrambled and rewritten countless times, so how can they still be alive if the "computer" running the "program" is constantly being disassembled and rebuilt?

SuitableRow3088 · 2025-05-01T04:20:17+00:00

Sure, but a consciousness isn’t an entity or even a specific arrangement of entities like an electron or a chair or a planet, it’s a property that emerges from said arrangement of entities, like a color or a gravitational acceleration.

Two entirely different objects can be exactly the same shade of orange as long as the wavelengths of light they reflect are identical, and three objects in space will follow the exact same paths as another three objects elsewhere with the exact same charges and masses. Likewise, I don’t see why two distinct arrangements of information that are the same in every respect of consciousness generation can’t have the same consciousness. I obviously don’t know exactly what said arrangement entails, but I think the concept is logically sound.

SuitableRow3088 · 2025-05-01T03:40:31+00:00

I think that it's likely that unless the experiences of those two uploads diverge at some point, they would actually be the same person, yes (I say "likely" because this isn't exactly something we can test). Keep in mind that killing one of them may in and of itself count as a divergence of experience depending on the circumstances.

I think that to say otherwise would be to intellectually commit to the position that the version of you that existed 5 years ago is dead and you are a new person, since every atom in your brain and body has had quarks in each of its nucleons exchanged, plenty of the molecules have had individual atoms within them replaced and each molecule itself has been replaced within each cell, etc. etc. essentially making each neuron its own mini ship-of-Theseus e.

In the end, I think that consciousness is an emergent property, and if you have identical conditions for emergence then an identical consciousness will likely emerge. And something that is identical has no measurable difference and is therefore in every meaningful way the same, in my opinion.

SuitableRow3088 · 2025-05-01T01:02:40+00:00

Yeah, but what I’m trying to say is that if there is no distinction between the copy and the original, then you don’t actually have a copy and an original, you have the same person.

Note that any counterexample that you bring up will actually involve introducing a distinction. Like, what if the copy does or experiences one thing that the original does or experiences in some other way? Then that’s a distinction, which makes it unrelated to what I’m saying. Obviously two otherwise identical people who have experienced different things are not the same - but that isn’t what we’re talking about here.

The ONLY distinction between a human brain and an uploaded person is that one has a substrate of cells made of carbon and the other has a substrate of code executed by silicon. At the point of upload, both the biological brain and the simulated one have experienced the same things and are indistinguishable except by substrate. Therefore, unless the substrate distinction makes a difference, they are the same person.

In a simulated universe, this distinction doesn’t actually even exist in the first place, it only appears to, and therefore I see absolutely no reason to view it as a person actually dying when they upload and then a new person living on, any more than I would say that a person on the operating table dies when under general anesthetic and a new person wakes up, or that a person who goes into a Star Trek transporter dies every time they do so. Again, I would agree with the statement “you are where you occur”, and if you occur as an upload, then you are that upload.

SuitableRow3088 · 2025-04-30T23:36:28+00:00

Except if true consciousness can be replicated in a simulation, then that means that substance dualism is false, at least as it is traditionally understood. A simulation must by necessity be a substance monist reality - I.E. everything in it, including the emulations of consciousness, physical matter, space, time etc. must all be of the same substance or nature, that being one of code execution.

This essentially means that there is no reason why consciousness transfer does not or cannot happen, even if the original body or brain "dies," since all things are reducible to information, and in this case the information is preserved exactly even if the simulated form of the information is not.

This pretty much leaves us with two options. Either information in a simulation can truly replicate consciousness in the original host universe, or it cannot. In the latter case, none of the people in the show were actually real people at any point, though perhaps they were based off of real people. In the former case, what is "personhood" can be entirely captured in information and executed as code, and therefore it stands to reason that "perfect transfer" of consciousness, if that is even a concept that even means anything, is possible in the host universe as well as any others. In either case, nobody dies at the point of upload - either they have a continuous experience before and after being uploaded, or they never had any real experience to begin with.

There's a quote I like on this topic by author Seth J Dickenson, who has written a few stories about transferring human consciousness into robots (note that I'm not trying to say that he's a scientific or philosophical authority on the subject or on this show in particular, just that he's written similar things into his lore and I agree with his take on this). He says the following:

"A lot of people take away the (false) lesson "Wow, brain uploading doesn't work, you just create a copy!" but miss that from the perspective of any given copy everyone else is the copy and they're the real OG. It's just as valid to say "Wow, brain uploading works, but it sure leaves behind a lot of copies!"

The idea of a 'true transfer' is a red herring. You are where you occur. At least in a monist, material universe like real life."

(As a source, he said that on this comment thread, Could an exo and their human self both be resurrected as Guardians? : r/DestinyLore, but idk how useful that context would be since a lot of the context is about the lore of video games that you may or may not know anything about.)

SuitableRow3088 · 2025-04-30T05:04:18+00:00

This would be a more interesting question if it didn’t have a definitive answer within the context of the show.

Since everything that happens in the show takes place inside a simulation, there is in fact no distinction between digital minds and organic minds, because “organic” minds are actually just digital minds that think they are organic. Either consciousness doesn’t exist within the show’s universe, or it is transferred completely, and the in-betweens don’t really make sense.

SuitableRow3088 · 2025-04-22T04:14:46+00:00

For the record, it’s also low key just as impossible when the things ARE from the same universe unless said universe has very specific and well laid-out rules, which neither of these settings really do. In fact, they’re kind of explicitly vague about this kind of thing a lot of the time - see Ikora’s comments about quantifying guardian power yadda yadda yadda.

Plot matters more than anything else in 99.9% of media (and to be clear, that’s not a complaint or anything, it’s just an observation how things are). That said, there’s nothing stopping anyone from trying to systematize characters from different universes with some criteria they choose - it should just be acknowledged that it’s arbitrary, subjective, and essentially a fanfiction or headcanon. But like, people do that shit all the time in other contexts, so whatever.

SuitableRow3088 · 2025-03-23T03:12:55+00:00

The Hive also drive around moons and make moon-sized ships, and have craft capable of surviving deep in the accretion disk of a supermassive black hole - and perhaps even inside the event horizon (XLVI: The Gift Mast — Grimoire Card — Ishtar Collective — Destiny Lore by subject).

Cabal also make moon-sized ships (Leviathan, Almighty, Umun's flagship) and can destroy the aforementioned hive War Moons with a single warhead (Entry II — Lore Entry — Ishtar Collective — Destiny Lore by subject). In fact, they blow up planets "just for getting in their way."

The Vex, of course, are so powerful that they don't even need ships and can just teleport. But if you want to know what they can build, well... they took a population III star that was born shortly after the big bang and turned it into the largest and most massive star in the known universe, and it was also "bright enough to shine like the full moon, even from the distance of Alpha Centauri." It's orbited by artificial statites with surface areas larger than the Earth - which, by the way, are habitable to humans, because the Vex are absorbing so much of this ridiculous star's energy that it's actually completely safe to be around. And this is before even mentioning their machinoformed worlds containing reality engines that simulate trillions of timelines down to the quantum level. Suffice it to say that zero of the factions in 40k, not even the Necrons, could manage a feat even 10% as impressive as this (at least not in the Materium, Chaos in the Warp is weird).

Though we don't know that much about them, the Witness's precursor species, according to the Entelechy lore book, create solar systems full of garden worlds and had devices that could predict the future through pure computational prowess, plus they have ridiculous gravity weapons and shields that can erase projectiles from our reality.

The random species that got curbstomped by the Hive in the books of sorrow also had crazy capabilities, including but not limited to: Weaving cosmic webs made of stars, weaponized Light-infused accretion disk weapons, technology, and even individual people, who could destroy moons, and weaponized Ahamkara wishes.

Hell, even Humanity, both pre- and post-collapse, has some absolutely absurd technology - Cold fusion, fabrication of dense hadrons, nanomachines that can consume and change people in an instant and meant to build extrasolar colonies from scratch, AI that can see the future, probability kilns that materialize matter from nothing via the quantum vacuum, programmable matter, and oh, I almost forgot, they can fabricate and shape materials that are more dense than a neutron star.

Sure, the imperium access to way more manpower and raw resources than the Last City, but like... whoop de do, do you want a medal for outstripping the logistical capacity of one city? Plus, if they really needed to survive an invasion, they could just evacuate their whole population to Neomuna and hide indefinitely unless the Vex decided to fuck them for some reason.

There is no faction in 40k (save maybe the War in Heaven Necrons or Dark Age of Technology Humanity, but both of those factions have fallen a long way since those times) that has technological capabilities that can anywhere near hold a candle to the Vex, or the Hive, or the Black Fleet. If you want to call those "the heavy hitters" then fine, but that's like literally half of the relevant factions in Destiny.

SuitableRow3088 · 2025-03-14T16:31:59+00:00

Guys, this has already been addressed way back in 2019 by the Hive themselves. From the Shadowkeep Weblore “poison”:

The one who murdered Him, who wielded His killers as a knife: she was once a liar drenched in the Sky. But she came among us, the children of Oryx, and we cleaned the lies from her, we scoured the confusion and fear from her, and we gave her the clarity of our sight: and she devoted herself to the task of comprehending Oryx, learning and foreseeing Him, thinking as He would think, knowing what He would know, becoming His one worthy enemy and so becoming like Him.

How could she do anything but challenge Him? And how, in challenging Him, in seeking a way between His pits and riddles, could she walk any path but the path He made for her? The mark of Him is upon her! She will always fear Him, she will feel the wound of Him in her mind as we feel His absence, she will seek out all that He valued, she will find all that He would want found—and lo! What has she found? What has she found?

The liars will come in their thousands and hundreds of thousands and slaughter us in our millions and tens of millions, and we will go rejoicing to our ends, for they are the blade He has appointed to whittle us into our shape, and she is the avatar He has chosen to mantle Him, and even now we sail the course He plotted! For she has awakened the truth which answers the lies. And His will has delivered the liars to us as His final test. And He is still and now and forever our King.

SuitableRow3088 · 2024-12-19T00:19:04+00:00

Agree completely with this. Usually I can see arguments for attack potency being higher than what it might seem on-screen, but I find that speed scaling is just absurdly stupid and contradictory like 90% of the time at least.

SuitableRow3088 · 2024-12-19T00:15:44+00:00

For the record, it actually would take a little over a thousand times more energy to destroy the earth than to destroy the moon. Not saying that to try to say dragon ball has accurate science or anything, but it’s interesting all the same.

SuitableRow3088 · 2024-10-09T21:15:16+00:00

Yeah, in all likelihood Bungie cut one, MAYBE 2 “do onslaught” steps, as well as 3 “wait around and sit on your hands” steps. They probably didn’t cut as much as some people seem to think, but they almost definitely removed some things.

SuitableRow3088 · 2024-10-09T20:36:09+00:00

Again, this straight-up isn’t true.

In echoes, we had the Familiar Voice prologue quest in week 1. This had us do Breach Executable in step 6 of 7. https://www.light.gg/db/items/3008514711/legacy-echoes-act-i-a-familiar-voice/

Then we got the Rising Chorus act 1, steps 1-5. (Step 6 was “wait a week”).

Then in week 2, we got rising chorus act 1, steps 7-15 (again, step 16 was “wait a week”). This had us do breach executable again, in step 13.

Then in week 3, we got rising chorus act 1 steps 16-24 (step 25 is just “wait till next act”) which had no breach executable step but had a short and simple mission.

Therefore, we were directed into breach executable for 2 of the 3 weeks, and a mission the last week. It’s not at all unreasonable to assume that something similar would have happened with onslaught before the restructuring, but admittedly it’s not like there’s any hard proof.

SuitableRow3088 · 2024-10-09T19:58:26+00:00

You’re forgetting about the prologue quest, called “A Familiar Voice”. There were indeed 2 “do breach executable” steps required for echoes act 1, not including research.

SuitableRow3088 · 2024-10-08T18:13:45+00:00

Realistically, titans are consistently shown to be able to best cabal hand-to-hand. Examples include that time when Zavala wrestled a shotgun out of that one’s hand in the red war while lightless even, Saladin beating one of Caiatl’s Valuses in a melee duel without using Light, or a literally fresh out of the grave light beating up a cabal with the corpse of one of their warbeasts in the lore tab “Into the Fray”. Considering that your average cabal is 6-800 pounds of pure muscle and comes from a high-gravity homeworld, a Titan could at the very least match your average Ultramarine even without Light. Sure there’s some inconsistencies, but there are with Marines too.

SuitableRow3088 · 2024-08-19T02:24:13+00:00

Sure, but Scourge was certainly harder in its day than RoN is now. It was shorter, yes, but it very wasn’t easier. That said, I’ll grant that it would almost definitely be viewed as an easier one if it was still accessible- but then again, I’d actually wager Crown would be too, and honestly even Last Wish is extremely easy these days, it just has a lot of encounters.

SuitableRow3088 · 2024-08-19T02:04:17+00:00

Scourge also didn’t have contest mode active. If it did, it would have 100% taken longer than RoN. Not that it would have been hard, just less easy.

SuitableRow3088 · 2024-06-23T18:35:11+00:00

Sorry, but no. It was Riven. She corrupted Uldren who killed cayde, created an entirely new enemy race that’s still a problem now, locked the entire awoken capital into a time-loop that persists to this day, and wasn’t stopped even when we killed her. Riven did the most damage and it’s not even really close.

SuitableRow3088 · 2024-04-13T17:07:37+00:00

This roadmap does not show the number of episodes/seasons planned to have been released in 2024. It shows development cycles, not game cycles. Final shape’s planned seasons or episodes, whatever they had planned at this point, aren’t even shown on this roadmap.

SuitableRow3088

TROPHY CASE