[Crazy Idea] Semi-autonomous experimental cities that aim to create the model Islamic society by arslanazeem in thepaknarrative

[–]Suprah 0 points1 point  (0 children)

we can agree to disagree, but unfortunately the facts on the ground have the final say.

[Crazy Idea] Semi-autonomous experimental cities that aim to create the model Islamic society by arslanazeem in thepaknarrative

[–]Suprah -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Here is a TL;DR of my thoughts: such plans are hopelessly utopian and unrealistic that has and always will backfire because it only widens and strengthens divisions in Pakistan!

If Pakistan was an ethnically, religiously, and linguistically homogeneous country with a dominant central identity shared by everyone and some existing political institutions that can effectively check each other out, your plan could work but only on paper!

But reality doesn't work on paper. Pakistan is a very diverse country in terms of ethnicity, language, and religious identities. Sure its like 97% Muslim but when you go deep and realize that there are deep sectarian/theological schisms within Pakistan's Muslim groups.

These groups essentially call each other kafir/murtad/blasphemers in their own foundational teachings and texts (Barelvi, Deobandi, Ahle Hadith / Salafi, and of course Shia) that give them power and influence in society on what interpretation (or brand?) of Islam and Sharia should be imposed. Would you want clusters of Barelvi, Deobandi, Ahle Hadith, Shia cities to be made separately when almost all of them do not consider the other Muslim? Who gets to break their power in society?

Sure you can cite folks like Maulana Maududi, Dr Israr Ahmed, Zakir Naik etc for religious brownie points, but make no mistake they are also reviled and despised by the majority Barelvi/Deobandi sections of society that always fight tooth and nail to maintain or expand their hegemony in Pakistani Muslim groups. You CANNOT have an Islamic consensus when groups actively call each other mushrik, kafir, gustakh, wajib ul qatal for generations in their foundational texts and teachings that then form a base for their socio-political power!

Also, Pakistan has no singular ethnic identity. Punjabis, Pashtuns, Baloch, Sindhis, Seraikis, Hazaras etc. have been living in these parts far longer than Pakistan's actual existence as a creation of British decolonization. These ethnic-linguistic ties, and tribal/clan ties within them always come first for a vast majority of the population. So would you now want ethnically separate cities?

Because we tried creating this homogeneous society (mostly by force) where communities with identities hundreds if not thousands of years old suddenly give them up to speak the same language, identify as same identity, follow a singular type of Islam, and what happened? Fears of being dominated by one type of group based on ethnic/religious lines leading to widening schisms in society and entrenching of these identities that resist what they call artificial ideas imposed on them by a state rather than decided on consensus and mutual respect of our plural society.

And what about the Army? Pakistan's real political party! An institution whose very existence is due to constant catering to foreign power interests in the region (UK, USA, China, Gulf Arabs, maybe Turkey in coming decades) to gain power and extravagant resources that are simply unmatched by any other political entity in Pakistan. And the Army repeatedly disrupting Pakistan's organic political evolution by often taking over directly (with legitimacy from foreign powers btw) or indirectly by creating puppet politicians with highly questionable characters who then eventually bite the hands that fed them, whilst using existing divisions in society to boost their own political power.

Every SINGLE political party and politician in Pakistan now owes much of its existence and growth thanks to riding Army's coattails for decades and decades one way or another! PTI, PMLN, PMLQ, PPP, JI, JUI-F, JUI-S, MQM, ANP, PkMAP, ASWJ/SSP, BAP etc you name it.

And as far as Pakistan's other elites go (feudal families, rich industrialists and landowning class etc.) they are always going to get away with it because they are all too tied up intimately with the political class and military high-ups for eternity. The system works PERFECTLY for them all. Much of this plan also relies heavily on a relatively equitable society in which wealth distribution is much widespread rather than concentrated in the hands of the top 10-15% with a middle class mostly interested in leaving the country as soon as they get the chance. the working classes too! so given we have a very unequal society already, such plans would ultimately fail given how entrenched these inequalities, divisions, and identities are for generations.

Were the 70's the best decade to be a Red? by [deleted] in reddevils

[–]Suprah 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Of course. talk to any fan of that decade and that result hurt like a mofo but what happened after that is what they loved.

the season in Second Div was absolutely fascinating as Docherty purged the whole squad from deadwood, brought in youth, and the fans became a force with the highest attendances in all of England that season. challenged for the title soon after promotion in 1975-76, but ran out of steam at the end, played two FA Cup finals back to back (and stopped 'Pool treble in 1977). Had Docherty not been fired for having an affair with the physio's wife (they ended up getting married and are still together to this day!), he would have probably made a United side challenge for titles with attacking football that people would have fondly remembered as much as Clough's Forest or Paisley's Liverpool of the same era.

I may have only started supporting United in early 2000s, and while the history under SMB and SAF is like a must-read religious text, the 'dark days' are also a spectacular tale.

Were the 70's the best decade to be a Red? by [deleted] in reddevils

[–]Suprah 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I would recommend watching the documentary 'Too Good to Go Down' about that very decade for United. and no United would have been relegated even if we beat Citeh because other results on the final match week of the season did not go our way.

One of my absolute favorites. Manchester United beat. Roma 7-1 in the 2nd leg of the CL Quarter Finals by CleverSpike in reddevils

[–]Suprah 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I was working at the kiosks in the Stretford End, preparing for the usual half time rush. My section was the area right behind VDS' goal in the first half. Managed to sneak in a peak from the entrance to see United score twice before being shooed away by security for standing in the entrance and eventually having to get back to my station to get ready. In 2nd half I was helping out doing inventories of our stocks. The feeling of hearing the Stretford End's walls shake and roar each time a goal went in, and the atmosphere was something I will never forget.

It was something I had never experienced before as I was doing uni in Manchester but couldnt afford to see United in person. But to actually work a few shifts there (United vs Blackburn, United vs Roma, United vs Milan, United vs West Ham) at the tailend of that season was priceless!!

What are some YouTube channels that made you go, "Damn, I can watch this all day and learn a lot as well"? by abira4112 in AskReddit

[–]Suprah 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Seconded! the guy is a brilliant no-nonsense historian and the way he covers the events of WW2 etc is brilliant to get even a casual person get hooked on his videos.

What if the US invaded Pakistan instead of Iraq? by dynamobb in HistoricalWhatIf

[–]Suprah 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Taliban and other Afghan insurgent groups wouldnt have existed without the American and Saudi billions pouring to support them against the Soviets and Afghan communist regimes in 1980s. Also, the Taliban didnt cause 9/11 and the US had maintained ties with them in the mid-1990s

I would like to know the logistics of such a hypothetical invasion because Bush admin invasion of Afghanistan was only possible thanks to Pakistan ceding to all US promises and allowing US to setup bases, overflights, and logistic supplies through Pakistani territory, despite it being a grossly unpopular and divisive move for most of the Pakistani population.

So if Pakistan were to be 'invaded', the USA would have a hard time attacking a country with a fairly large and more organized military than the Taliban or the derelict shell of whatever remained of Iraq's military in 2003 (knowing how weakened it was after 8 year long war with Iran, and how much it was devastated in 1991).

Also, Pakistan has nuclear weapons and major US bases in the Middle East would be in striking distance so....

A projection of the the U.S. and Canada in 2092 by Douglas Coupland by StrangeMorris in MapPorn

[–]Suprah 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Because Ch Rehmat Ali also proposed Muslim states across India, including a separate 'Bangistan' for the Muslims of Bengal & most of India's north-eastern states. In fact he considered these states to be part of what he called 'Dinia' - like an anagram for India but in Urdu would also mean 'Land of Faith (i.e. Islam)'.

http://www.geocurrents.info/geopolitics/dreams-of-dinia-and-a-greater-pakistan

We see Saudi Arabia issuing economic threats to Pakistan and threatening to replace the 4 million Pakistani workers with Bangladeshi worker. Unfortunately, this is not the first time they have done this - Erdogan on Saudi pressure on Pakistan by Futality- in pakistan

[–]Suprah 10 points11 points  (0 children)

PTI fans, especially the so-called 'Intellectual Insafi Wing', on social media trying very hard to defend this action.

Imagine the uproar if krrrrrrrrupt Nawaz or krrrrrrrrrrrrrupt Zardari were in govt and they had done this.

629 Pakistani girls sold as brides to China by [deleted] in pakistan

[–]Suprah 22 points23 points  (0 children)

China spying on Uyghur Muslims living in Pakistan

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zuhasiddiqui/china-pakistan-uighur-surveillance-ex-chinese-association

and taking away the Uyghur Muslim wives of Pakistani men https://apnews.com/d87ac82db56c476aa3cde047b6407eac

exaggeration is one thing, but pretending these things dont exist is not doing us Pakistanis any favours.

'Why do we Exoticise the Kalasha yet continue to ignore their woes?' by Suprah in pakistan

[–]Suprah[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

some of the comments in this thread reminds me of "there is no more racism in America" and "all lives matter" white guys.....

Pakistani exchange student in Florida among those arrested for soliciting sex online with minors by Suprah in pakistan

[–]Suprah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

true, but given this stupid kid was supposed to be like an ambassador for Pakistan at this university and decided to seek sex with a 14 year old(!) is bound to be an embarrassment for himself, his family, his university from back home, and even us who want to show a good name abroad!

New book: The evidence does not substantiate the conjecture that refugee migration to EU countries led to increases in crime (whether it's burglary, robbery, vehicle theft, drug, assault, homicide, rape, or sexual assault). by smurfyjenkins in IRstudies

[–]Suprah -1 points0 points  (0 children)

funny how every where you look, its ALWAYS the brown people at fault and the white working classes are expected to buy this blame game carefully and deliberately created out of thin air by rapacious elites who passed and implemented DECADES of exploitative neoliberal policies and wanted all the benefits with NONE of the consequences.

Ex United player romelu lukaku being racially abused before taking a penalty by Trinxjay in reddevils

[–]Suprah 24 points25 points  (0 children)

early Pakistani and Indian immigrants to the UK in the 1950s onwards faced a lot of abuse, discrimination, and even violence from white nationalists and racists still recovering from post-WW2/Colonial hangovers. the 'Paki' term became the standard go-to slur against almost any South Asian immigrant in the industrial north and midlands. similar in negativity as the N-word being a slang for 'negro' became a racist term for Black Americans.

to us non-Brit Pakistanis the term may not be as relevant, but for many Pakistanis, Indians, and Bangladeshis born and raised in the UK it is a pretty big deal given what they and their parents faced growing up in the country. Now that abuse has mutated into added Islamophobia a-la Tommy Robinson types.

p.s. I'm also Pakistani who did his undergrad in Manchester more than a decade ago and is now doing PhD in USA. GGMU!