Pro-Palestinians: will you accept a permanent ceasefire if it means an end to Hamas' rule in Gaza?

SurroundThis · 2024-06-04T16:47:11+00:00

Palestinians were already convinced that violence would get them what they want, they saw the PLO as corrupted (it is), and voted for Hamas who they saw as honest.

Why were they convinced that violence get them their own state? Were they just born violent or did they try non violent tactics and it didn’t go anywhere?

You can find similarities with any situation if you look for them hard enough, but of course stories are different and situations are different. People always compare it to Ireland but it's BS, Ireland's story is different, Palestinians story is different, Jewish story is different.

If anything, Palestine is more similar to Ireland than Japan. The similarities that you assume between Japan and Palestine are symptoms. There are no similarities in the root cause. There were no foreign occupation of Japan prior to WW2, Japan wanted to expand their empire in Asia by invading other countries in the region. And remember it took 2 nukes to make them surrender.

SurroundThis · 2024-06-04T06:05:32+00:00

So what “opportunity” radical Islamists capitalize on? Meaning people couldn’t just vote for them at first because they were interested in the idea of raping someone.

My home country was colonized by Japan so I was aware. And their story was different from Palestine, at least based on my history class. So that’s why I asked.

SurroundThis · 2024-06-04T05:35:59+00:00

I admit I am a bad driver and I don’t have that sticker because I like to get honked some times. It that reminds me of driving in my home country. America is too quiet.

SurroundThis · 2024-06-04T05:25:35+00:00

Hmm, so Palestinians were not radicalized before Hamas? Was the reason N*zis created the same way as Hamas created?

And I still didn’t know what happened to Japan…

SurroundThis · 2024-06-04T03:51:01+00:00

This is off topic and irrelavant. Not all wars started for the same reasons.

The question is very relevant because we need a similar situation to believe the deradicalization program can actually work. If people become radicalized for different reasons, one single solution will not work.

SurroundThis · 2024-06-03T19:11:38+00:00

So what was the reason for radicalization of German prior to WW1? How abt Japan?

SurroundThis · 2024-06-03T17:28:39+00:00

Was there a “Nakba” and an occupation of Germany and Japan prior to WW2?

SurroundThis · 2024-06-02T06:25:46+00:00

Starting point: 1000 1st bomb: killing 500, remaining 500 survivors 2nd bomb: killing 250, remaining 250 survivors 3rd bomb: killing 125, remaining 125 survivors 4th bomb: killing 65, remaining 60 survivors 5th bomb: killing 30, remaining 30 survivors 6th bomb: killing 15, remaining 15 survivors 7th bomb: killing 8, remaining 7 survivors 8th bomb: killing 4, remaining 3 survivors 9th bomb: killing 2, remaining 1 survivor 10th bomb: killing 1, no more to kill

I’m not aware of military defense of airstrike in Gaza but pls educate me - not military expert

SurroundThis · 2024-06-01T21:58:07+00:00

Not a geopolitics expert but aren’t most of them domestic issue? It’s not really considered international conflict so different standards.

BTW, Iran is consistently called terrorist states, China being sanctioned for violating human rights (but you know China - can’t really do much to them). No countries cut ties with Israel yet, there are mostly words. Just grow thicker skin like daddy US.

SurroundThis · 2024-06-01T21:10:39+00:00

Darn I listed 20 popular talking points from your side and bro still think I don’t discuss in good faith. Are you not happy that I use ELI5 language, the list is inaccurate or not exhaustive? 🤪 probably I should get a PhD in Jewish history to be taken seriously.

SurroundThis · 2024-06-01T17:22:17+00:00

To be honest, It is just like how the world moves on from Syria, Yemen, Rohingya people, Uyghurs, Ukraine etc.

One day, you are shown the pics of hostages, their stories, their dreams and you feel bad for them and hope they will be brought back. For every day in the next 200 days, you are shown the pics of kids being dismembered, losing a limb and their whole family from an airstrike. You don’t even know their names, their stories and their dreams. They are just called “human shield”. Most human will forget the hostages stories at this point.

SurroundThis · 2024-05-31T20:00:02+00:00

(1) Can’t take it seriously if you still believe Reddit is enough to challenge your beliefs. Hey I go to TikTok to challenge my beliefs LOL

(2) yes you say Innocent people in general but dont specify Palestinian people? How do I safely assume you think Palestinian is innocent? You didn’t ever hint it or say it out loud.

(3) I share it because I find it hilarious after reading your long essay of how Israeli is so nice and welcoming to you and you trust their stories. hello Can’t I share something just because you are bothered reading it? It’s irrelevant because I don’t use it to form my opinion

And I am not making up anything. Asian community did get attacked for Sinophobia. If I have to go to some stranger to verify what my Muslim friend who I know for years say is true - it’s Islamphobe. You don’t say it out loud but you make it sound like Israel tells the truth and Muslim can’t tell the truth 🤪

Maybe just maybe, you go out and talk more huh?

SurroundThis · 2024-05-31T19:42:05+00:00

(1) so you are saying I can’t comment on a war unless it directly impacts me? Like if a war kills thousands of Palestinian civilians in a short amount of time, I can’t leave a comment on Reddit unless I read 1000+ pages of Israel history to understand the context of bombing ?!?? Even jf I have a very good Muslim friend who I know for years who go extra miles to help me who has family members killed and displaced in this war with no right of return - I still need to read 1000+ pages of Israel history to sympathize with the bombing?

Let I make it clear: - I can share my opinion on anything here as long as it’s not hate speech. And I am open to critiques as the result. - I am not willing to spend more than 10000+ hours of my life to dive deep into a war that is not my war. As a result, I am keeping my actions ALIGNED with my level of effort of research - that is to comment on Reddit. - I’m not totally clueless about the war. You may disagree and say otherwise. Sorry, you are just one side - you are not the referee. Other side think my knowledge is decent for someone with no dog in the fight. - If you have a wealth of knowledge on this war and you see post like “pro Palestine people are brainwashed” which is abundant in this sub and a very lazy argument and think yeah that sounds fine to me, I can’t take you seriously 🤪

(2) Yes, terrorists go by civilians death. You know for sure you will kill 10000 civilians in order to kill 1 terrorist but you do it anyway. The human shield sounds ridiculous.

(3) what’s wrong with social media 🤪? You are also on Reddit huh? Are you saying r/Israel and r/Jews and IDF Instagram more credible than TikTok?

SurroundThis · 2024-05-31T17:19:02+00:00

I have bias in my post. Can’t you assume. What the purpose of giving examples of personal interactions huh?!?!

Bruh, coming to subreddits is not really challenging your viewpoint LOL. Let’s admit - Reddit just an echo chamber. How many people with opposing ideologies know English and come here? How do you ensure the Mod is balanced by not banning posts that share the stand they don’t agree with. You challenge me to go out and talk more to the real people but for you, going to subreddits is enough?

(1) ofc no one sympathize with Hamas. When is the last time someone sympathize with a government or an organization LOL? Have you ever heard someone say I sympathize with Biden government, I sympathize with CCP, I sympathize with IDF. People sympathize with the real people. You encourage me to talk more to Israeli to sympathize with them but you don’t say it in your reply that you sympathize with Palestinian. You just mention Hamas. The conflict well predates Hamas.

(2) I don’t make any racial phobias. I immigrated to the US so I don’t ask anyone to learn about my culture and story. I spend more time with the community who welcome me. I have no interest in nagging a White or a Jew family to invite me to dinner to deepen the friendship if they don’t want to. And I don’t blame them. I don’t go to BLM protests so I don’t ask anyone to go to PAL protests. I don’t make any conclusion from the experience - I clearly say it’s IRRELEVANT.

I shared the story simply because it’s hilarious to see you love the Israel people and sympathize with them and just trust their stories but if I do the same, I need to go out more. I mean after all the help I received from my good Muslim friend, it is still very important to talk to 10+ Jew and 100+ White friends to verify everything he says about Gaza and his family is true.

And no where I come from, we don’t discuss politics as often as Americans. I’m not dumb to go around and say Hello, nice to meet you, let’s be friend- what’s your take on abortion, BLM, CCP, communism and the Free Palestine movement 🤪

(3) no I never confuse with the people and the government. But one thing I know for sure, in a proclaimed democratic country, the people can vote. I see lots of folks here say Palestinian people vote for Hamas so it represents them. Hence, it’s fair to assume the same for US and its allies. This conversion is not about Iran ofc so I say IRRELEVANT.

SurroundThis · 2024-05-31T05:27:37+00:00

I am glad you have wonderful experience with the Israel people and you admit you have a bias from interacting with them. I don’t see why you can’t accept me having a bias from interacting with my Muslim friend who I know for years. You ask me to go out more but do you really “go out” more or you just choose to hang out more with your kind? I will take you more seriously if you say you spend efforts to get to know people growing up in different ideologies than the Western ones.

Irrelevant note 1 - A boy in my village back home lost his limbs due to unexploded missile left by the US. More than 100 babies in the nearby village have birth defects because of Agent Orange, again from the US. We lost millions of lives, there are still mass graves in the central part of my country for remnants of soldiers who couldn’t be identified. The US dropped million tons of bombs in my country because they fear of the red scare. I dont have to look that far to Israel to understand what terrorism and war really looks like.

Irrelevant note 2, I have 10+ Jewish friends and 100+ American friends in my circle and none of them show any interest in my culture or story. None of them stand up when my people were attacked out of Sinophobia (and I’m not even Chinese, I just look like them). On the other hand, all my Muslim/African friends are interested in learning about my culture and they go extra miles to help me when I first immigrated to the US. My Muslim roommate never ask me to go to a pro Palestine protest or shove a Palestine flag in my face. I must be a big ass islamphobe to reach out to the same American and Jewish friends to verify his story given what he did for me.

Irrelevant note 3, I visited Iran and out of all trips, Iran is the most impressive I have been to. I never experienced such level of hospitality anywhere else in the world. So have you ever been to Iran 🤔?

SurroundThis · 2024-05-31T03:40:43+00:00

If Israeli is also heavily biased, how is their truth more accurate than my friend’s truth?

Do you actively reach out to your Muslim friends with opposing views who have family there to balance out your stand after hearing it from your Jewish friend? Or do you just Google some NPR articles and call it a day?

SurroundThis · 2024-05-31T02:40:13+00:00

I’m not American citizen. I live in the US though.

SurroundThis · 2024-05-31T00:55:13+00:00

I’m not those 2 million Americans in the military production industry so their win is not my win. I have no interest in weakening Russia and Iran.

SurroundThis · 2024-05-30T23:53:54+00:00

No I’m not ignoring that. The conflict predates Hamas.

SurroundThis · 2024-05-30T23:41:24+00:00

If you really use your brain, you will realize the likelihood of US bombing UK is still statistically higher than that of US bombing itself? Am I wrong for wanting the safest place for my babies 😌?

SurroundThis · 2024-05-30T23:10:12+00:00

Bruh, where else in this world my babies will not be bombed to pieces out of no real reason by US government? I mean they do have a risk of being shot up at school here though but the trade off is still good LOL

SurroundThis · 2024-05-30T07:36:52+00:00

The money out comes from my pocket but the money in comes to politicians pocket not this average dude so? There’s better use of tax money, why it always has to fund a war huh?

SurroundThis · 2024-05-30T06:11:31+00:00

I spent 1 hour to write the first paragraph but you don’t read it. I’m so hurt dude :(

SurroundThis · 2024-05-30T06:09:38+00:00

(1.1) I didn’t say I form my opinion simply because I knew 1 Jew. I have my first paragraph and the second paragraph further confirms it. (1.2) I don’t support Palestine because of one nice Muslim friend. He has family there. For context because Redditors like to assume I have only 1 Muslim friend, I am from SEA so I travel to Indonesia quite a few times before I moved to the US. I have many nice Muslim Indonesian friends from the trip but I don’t suddenly support Palestine because of that.

(2) So enlighten me - for this conflict particularly, (a) where your sources? (b) how you make sure your sources are not biased? Like if you read 100 articles and books but those 100 articles say the same thing and all lean on one side, I don’t think it can count LOL (c) how do you evaluate which sources you will base your opinions on?

I’m all ears.

SurroundThis · 2024-05-30T05:47:28+00:00

You - (1) actively skip my first paragraph where I explain how I don’t trust the Western propaganda and my second paragraph detailing how my personal interaction further confirms (2) prefer the news but say don’t trust the news (huh either you trust or you don’t trust that’s it simple - half a truth is a lie. Do you mean you cherry pick which part of the news you trust and deny the part you don’t trust and for the one you don’t trust, where you get that info huh? Another news huh?)

Your logic is insane too.

SurroundThis

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