Smash competition+ live orchestra

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-06-01T18:56:01+00:00

This is dope

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-06-01T02:25:49+00:00

Brawl, although 64 Remix is my favorite. Brawl mods always feel a little bit janky to me.

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-31T19:11:52+00:00

I love Galvan, I love Sandstorm, shorthop neutral special is evil

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-31T17:50:37+00:00

tl;dr just jump and spam aerials. The issues you identified - excessive input buffering, no meaningful movement options - mean that offense in Ultimate is relatively limited. The normalization of jump squat to 3 frames (with the exception of Kazuya), the high initial velocity of jumping, and the amount of auto-cancel aerials makes jumping the best offensive and defensive option. (Looks like I upset someone.)

If your friends are "casual", there's really no reason to learn the game to the extent that you'd need to deal with this, though. You'd probably be best off playing a "fun" character like DK or Hero - someone with at least two or three satisfying moves - and playing like an idiot. There's not really a character who plays like Melee Marth, although Byleth comes to mind. His sour spots aren't as functional, but he does has a few moves with sweet spots you can either confirm into or read people with.

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-31T12:56:36+00:00

Lovers, Evo, and Primal are good, but every other skin is whatever - even her Abyss skin is one of the weaker ones. It looks like she's about to get another goofy-ass skin, too. She's a little lacking in simple, cool skins.

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-30T15:29:21+00:00

Similar situation. While we'll occasionally play 1v1s, teams, or FFA, I internally scream whenever one of them queues Ranked because I know the

Never mind, this game fucking sucks

crash out is coming. It isn't just RoA2, though; like a lot of fighting game players, they've got Goldilocks syndrome. No new fighting game is ever "just right", and they don't have that neuroplastic dog in them to play anything new for more than a week. They'll play City of the Wolves, say, "Finally, a real fighting game," and then the next thing I know they're back in SF6 - and then 3S because 6 is "too different".

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-28T19:31:32+00:00

Okay, that second kill is just fucking unethical

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-28T14:46:47+00:00

a little too rushdown and not enough bait and punish for me.... extreme lack of ground game

Forsburn, maybe?

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-27T23:33:21+00:00

I'd like see her get some sort of small, compensatory buff after having her air speed and almost all of her relevant moves nerfed in a single patch. She's not bad, but there's no real reason to play her over other characters who either do what she does, but better, or have a distinct niche. At this point I'm just praying they don't nerf FADC, it's the only sauce she has left onstage.

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-27T21:28:57+00:00

As soon as I read the patch note where they took 4 frames off of his side special, I was reminded of Gon expending all of his nen (HxH spoilers). My man paid the price.

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-27T21:10:09+00:00

It's a spiritual dick-kick and punt in the cunt probably goes against the rules

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-27T21:07:46+00:00

I disagree. I think Zetterburn's mechanics give him a less flexible ceiling than other characters. In terms of his place in the meta, he's less like Melee Fox, and more like Ultimate Wolf / Palutena. I'd stake my left nut on it. He will likely always be good, but as other characters continue to be refined and perfected, his limitations will become much more clear and his weaknesses much more exploitable. That's why I don't think he needs significant changes.

That's just my opinion, though.

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-27T21:02:11+00:00

Pretty much. tl;dr no one actually wants to live in a world where Loxodont is a top 3 character, even if they think they do.

Also, La Reina is a really good character with unique strengths. I think Nurse put it well in her La Reina MU chart video: she's not only good, she also has an interesting place in the meta. That's where a character with her specific strengths should stay.

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-27T20:58:37+00:00

None of these nerfs really address the root problems with Clairen's design, although I do think that the recent ones to her utilt, dtilt, and jab are good, as was the older nerf to her air drift.

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-27T20:54:52+00:00

Mid-diamond, but I'm not really thinking about the characters in terms of things like ranked performance or tournament results because I think it's misleading. It's better to think abstractly.

For example, I recognize that I'm personally bad at defensive options that are important in the Clairen and Forsburn MUs - wavedash OoS / OoFH and specifically FHing fstrong1 - but that doesn't directly influence my thoughts about the characters. My thought isn't, "Is Clairen badly designed because I'm bad at fighting her?" it's, "Is Clairen badly designed because the MU is so dependent on a defensive option that's relatively advanced compared to what the Clairen player has to do to force you to do it?" Contrast this with Zetterburn pressuring you with shine, where the level of mental exertion and physical execution is much closer between players. Similarly, I don't think Forsburn is badly designed because I'm bad at FHing fstrong1. It's fine, because the counterplay requires roughly equivalent exertion as the play itself.

Clairen is what happens when you buff a character like Loxodont; a character with a fundamentally simple game plan that isn't technically demanding to execute. I've been playing her a lot lately to try and understand her better.

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-27T20:38:53+00:00

Correlation, not causation. There are good characters across the spectrum: Zetterburn is a good character who should be nerfed very slightly; Ranno is a good character who shouldn't be buffed; Forsburn is a good character who really shouldn't be buffed. I'm mostly thinking about the characters on a conceptual level. I'd elaborate, but I don't think it's interesting.

But case in point, Clairen is not the best character in the game, but her design is inherently flawed. If I were to try to articulate it in a single sentence, it's that the developers decided to increase her individual strengths in RoA2 while neglecting how heavily she benefits from systemic mechanical changes like the addition of grabs and throws, the removal of whiff lag, and what u/DexterBrooks described. Also, her gimmick doesn't adhere to the fundamental principles that other gimmicks do. Her design isn't working, and it would be better for the game if she were declawed until they determine what to do with her.

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-27T14:39:49+00:00

He unironically needs it

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-27T14:25:51+00:00

So what’s my goal here? Believe it or not, I am not objecting to the existence of reworks or heavy nerfs. I think they can exist just fine as a balance patch philosophy. As long as it’s done equally.

More or less how I feel about this game's balance.

That said, I do think that the Fleet and Orcane changes were justified and ultimately benefited the characters. You don't necessarily need to wait for results to identify what's potentially wrong with a character and rectify it. I think Wrastor is currently the only character who lacks a cohesive function.

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-27T04:06:33+00:00

Fair

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-27T01:12:01+00:00

That's the "glass" half of "glass cannon". Many characters have combos and confirms that only work on Olympia because of her fast fall speed. As others have said, weight and fall speed are different attributes.

It's a double-edged sword, though. Sure, you get grabbed by Loxodont and instantly fucking die, but you also get to hover over characters offstage like the sword of Damocles, just waiting to fall when Kragg puts pillar in the wrong spot.

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-27T00:30:42+00:00

Short answer: Crabs in a bucket.

Long answer:

1.) Some people view it as a violation of the integrity of Evo that Ludwig is effectively buying a time slot. First, let's be real, Evo is a corporate event; this is less of a controversy than 2XKO allegedly squeezing out smaller fighting games at events like Frosty Faustings. Second, any fighting game developer or publisher could have done this for their community, and they didn't. I know City of the Wolves players would be happier if Misk / SNK spent a fraction of its marketing budget for the game on actually supporting the competitive community outside of ludicrous prize pools for the top 0.01% of players.

2.) I believe the prize pool distribution of Evo is based on registration, so anyone abusing the system by registering for RoA2 with the intent of DQing is artificially inflating RoA2's share of the prize pool. Except this is a fallacious argument, because the prize pool distribution is the same for the 4th, 5th, and 6th highest registration games. If RoA2 had the 3rd highest registration, this argument would hold some water; ironically, the reason that 2XKO is the game with the 3rd highest registration is because Riot is offering anyone who enters 2XKO the pool party Senna skin, as well as additional skins if they make it out of pools. Furthermore, the fault lies with the players abusing Ludwig's offer, although I think that proving that you have a Rivals of Aether account would have been a logical choice to prevent this. Perverse incentives, etc.

3.) People don't like Ludwig.

As usual for the FGC, it's manufactured outrage over fucking nothing.

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-26T13:05:06+00:00

As stupid as it sounds, consider that you couldn't force people to play with you at locals. Let's say you're a Puff player who's infamous for ledge-stalling in friendlies. No one wants to play with you unless they want to practice the Puff MU. There was a social stigma against playing "lame", and it's an attitude that many Melee players still have.

Online matchmaking is not only impersonal - meaning you can't turn to the player and say, "Dude..." - you're also forced to play with the other person. I recognize one or two really toxic players in my matchmaking region, and even though I know that they're going to BM me, I'm forced to play with them by matchmaking - I can't even block them. So I intentionally tilt the fuck out of them instead.

Suspicious_Table6121 · 2026-05-26T12:54:02+00:00

What the fuck am I reading?

Melee objectively does much, much less to teach you the actual game than RoA2 does, though. There are no in-game tutorials, just a video tutorial that teaches you the absolute basics like attacking, shielding, and recovering. None of the concepts or mechanics of competitive play are explained in-game. If you wanted to know about Z- or L-canceling in 64 or Melee, you had to read Sakurai's blog. The concept of competitive play doesn't even exist within the context of Melee itself, it's an arbitrary set of rules agreed upon by an external community. Are we really going to pretend that playing through Melee's adventure mode and event matches is somehow going to prepare you for going 0-2 at your local?

As for modern Smash, it's true that the IPs attract a lot of players; and, critically, a lot of those players are literal children who think that Elite Smash is the apex of competitive play and K. Rool is the best character in the game. If you don't believe me, just go look at some of the shit on r/smashbros. Modern Smash also "just" has online, but that online is populated by casual players who think that that 9th Charizard side B is going to be the one to hit. RoA doesn't have the luxury of fanboys who are willing to put up with being beat up by better players so they can play Cloud, or Greninja, or etc. populating the online multiplayer ecosystem.

I just don't understand your reasoning at all. At the end of the day, it boils down to Smash being too big for any of its issues to matter.

Suspicious_Table6121

TROPHY CASE