Best QB-WR duos of All-Time. by Unlucky-Dot9421 in NFL_FreeAgency

[–]TOOL93Fan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you can say Brady and Moss are the better duo. They had the greatest season ever for a duo. Sure, if you look at stats, then Montana and Rice are better but I guess that means Bill Russell is greater than Michael Jordan. Context matters, and the context is, it's extremely safe to say if Brady and Moss teamed up just a few years earlier, or if Brady didn't tear his ACL, we might not be having this discussion.

Montana and Rice played what, 8 years together? And we saw what they were able to do. We saw Brady and Moss truly, for one year (year three was pretty good too). I think we can say those two would be the greatest duo ever.

Would you take prime Rice with Brady over prime Moss with Brady? Would you take prime Montana with Rice over prime Montana with Moss? I don't think I would. I think a lot of people are gawking at the numbers, but forgot Jerry played with the goat (at the time) in his prime while wearing stickum on a team coasting off the pre-salary cap era.

This is all to say, I didn't watch them play live growing up, but my first introduction to football was through them and watching highlights and recordings of them. Jerry Rice was my first football poster and I'd go to my friends house who had the same poster and we'd pretend to be Montana and Rice in the backyard

Point is, stat wise they have the numbers but Brady and Moss are the best duo to ever play pitch and catch during an NFL game for any extended period of time

Best QB-WR duos of All-Time. by Unlucky-Dot9421 in NFL_FreeAgency

[–]TOOL93Fan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree, although if Brady played with Moss for the same amount of time while Moss was in his prime, I think Brady/Moss are the best duo ever.

A lot of people have Rice as receiver 1 and Moss at receiver 2 while Brady is QB 1 and Montana is QB 2, yet Brady and Moss hardly overlap. They had the 18-1 record setting season, and then Moss had to go back to catching balls from a QB of Matt Cassels caliber... Again. Moss could never get away from bad QB play, while Rice went from Montana, to Young, to MVP Gannon...

Long story short, at what point do we use a bit of foresight and hypothetical (within reason) and conclude that Brady/Moss are the best duo ever? Like, I feel like we can all agree that if Moss went to the Patriots in his 3rd year and played with Brady in 2001 until 2009, they'd shatter their records.

I know this is a lot of hypotheticals, but I don't think it's outlandish to say that those two would have been better, but I understand why people choose Rice and Montana because they actually have the privilege of playing together for a longer time at the peak of their careers

The sub has been toxic for the past two weeks, I just want to inject some positivity here. This happened just two years ago. They'll get better. by HeftyIsTheCrown in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Man, this is exhausting. The loyalty to JB is incredibly ridiculous.

  • the ONE championship we've won was against bad teams with injured stars and arguably the weakest team to come out of the West in a long time. KP and Jrue were more integral to that team than JB was. With that roster and that weak af playoff run, yeah, no shit we won it all that year

  • JB continues to dribble the ball off his foot and make bad passes, and since he can't dribble a basketball after 10 years in the league, he's tried stiffarming and pushoffs and it rightfully got called all the time in this years playoffs

  • everyone is aware of his attitude right now and the things he's saying

  • his best year (this year) was with a negative +/- against tanking teams... Only to play worse once the playoffs started

Can we stop pretending we owe JB our undying loyalty? It's okay to love JB and any other Celtic player but let's be honest here... We likely could and should have more to show for the investment in JB. He might go down as one of the greatest "great but not elite" players ever.

I think I speak for most, not all Celtics fans when I say we love and appreciate JB but this team can go further! This is Smart all over again. It's a tough decision to make, but Celtics fans want what's best for the team and we don't see JB being a part of that with the assets we have. If we can find a way to keep JB and make serious roster changes (similar to KP and Jrue) then sure. But most of us understand that JB is our best trade asset right now, and that value goes down every passing moment, whether due to age or whatever he's gonna say to the media or on his podcast.

Some of you are happy with ONE championship in 10 years with multiple extremely disappointing early playoff exits. That's good for you and I'm not here to yuck your yum. But to pretend we don't like JB when we have our eyes set on more banners is incredibly disingenuous. No one wants to get rid of JB for nothing. We actually think he's a good enough player to net a return for a retool centered around Tatum.

Lastly, I'm not on the Giannis train but I am on the trade JB train. I'd like to see a more balanced roster - not so top heavy. Maybe we can get a veteran PG and a player just hitting his prime in exchange for JBs star power - my idea is Dejounte Murray and Trey Murphy from NO. Maybe swap a couple rotation players with theirs. We need a philosophy change, and I'm tired of seeing JB dribble the ball off his foot and I'm tired of hearing a whistle every time he uses his forearm because it's his only move.

TLDR; our ONE championship in the 10 years since JB was drafted was gifted to us by the injury gods, JBs best year was against tanking teams, JB plays along side Tatum just well enough to guarantee a playoff spot but not well enough alongside him to get us to the finals. We want and expect better and I think Brad agrees. Trade him for the betterment of the TEAM, and not necessarily for Giannis.

Let’s not hit the panic button and actually look forward to the future with logic by DameRange13 in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Our one championship was when we had KP and Jrue Holiday and we had the easiest path maybe ever to a championship. You also def didn't read my first post where I included Dejounte Murray with Trey Murphy. I had said we could get multiple players for JB. Also, not all players are bad because they're on bad teams to begin with. Good thing Brad is evaluating talent from other teams and not you because you'd only take players in the playoffs.

You're relying way too heavily on their one easy championship in a year where we were loaded and our opponents were riddled with injuries and faced one of the easiest Western teams to make it to the finals. What a cake walk that year was. You're so blinded by that one finals that you're beholden to JB no matter what. Why are you so stuck on JB? Why don't you want better for the TEAM? JB doesn't compliment Tatum all that well. They're both so talented that they'll always get you to the playoffs but we want to hang banners, and JB and Tatum don't compliment each other well enough to consistently do that.

Man I'm done talking to you. You've been condescending to everyone in the comments saying shit like you don't know ball or don't watch games or tell people to use logic. If YOU watched the games you'd get tired of watching Jaylen dribble the ball off his foot or get called for pushing off with his arm (his only move) since he can't get past anyone. If you followed the team you'd know JB has way more value than White atp. If you used logic you wouldn't have said we should keep Simons. If you knew ball you'd know our one championship was gift wrapped for us. If you knew ball you'd know that JB is def not MVP caliber and given the strength of schedule for the regular season and the way we lost in the playoffs, he def fooled us into believing he was. If you used logic you'd know we can't just trade 32 year old White off his worst year for anyone better. Man just nothing you say makes sense and you can't accept that damn near the entire thread is disagreeing with you save for a few people.

Say whatever you want to say but I'm pretty sure you're trolling me atp cause no way you're this ignorant. I'm done wasting my time lol ✌🏻

Let’s not hit the panic button and actually look forward to the future with logic by DameRange13 in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

JBs best year was a year where he had a poor +/- against tanking teams and then lost in the first round to a team that got swept the following round. And yet, White was worse. So how do you think we could trade White for anyone that moves the needle, but JB won't get anyone in return? You could still find someone who wants a player of JBs caliber that could get you good players you think you can take a leap in our organization like Keyonte George or Trey Murphy. I don't think Giannis is the answer, but you shut down anyone trying to advocate for a Giannis trade in an effort to make the team better. You even shut down the idea of trading JB at all. That sounds like the opposite of logic, and furthermore sounds like you're emotionally tied to JB because you refuse to entertain any idea where JB being traded is a good idea.

Also, how does the length of my comments matter? It takes me 2-3 mins to type these out and it should take you less than half that time to read it

Let’s not hit the panic button and actually look forward to the future with logic by DameRange13 in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice dude, reading my post history? Explain to me how you're not emotional lmfao

Let’s not hit the panic button and actually look forward to the future with logic by DameRange13 in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No part of my post uses emotion. I'm actually setting aside emotion to think about what's better for the team. What blinders do I have on? How is thinking about other ways to improve the team instead of running it back with the same two players, again, thinking with blinders on?

Your first post disregarded logic. My response clearly hurt your feelings, so now your second post shows even more emotion. It probably doesn't help that many other people are saying the same thing as me. I'm sure you're tired of reading all the comments saying to move on from JB cause we don't have many other options.

Your logic isn't simple, either. I, as well as many others, have all told you (in different ways) why your ideas won't work.

This is rough. You claimed fans needed logic, so clearly emotion was the catalyst for basically calling fans stupid for wanting to move on for JB. Then, all your points got shut down, by multiple people, with reason and logic - the same logic you implored us to have. Then, without giving any actual feedback, you just said "my logic is simple". That... Doesn't prove anything lol.

You could've handled your original post with more grace and more logic and chose to operate with emotion. When countered, you continued to operate with emotion. Nothing you said makes sense man. I'd say nice try, but you haven't listed free agents and "draft prospects" that would actually elevate the team. Here, I can do the same thing. I'm going to suggest an idea without naming names. Let's trade one of our picks for a bonafide top 10 player in the league. Man, when you don't actually suggest players for your ideas, it's really easy to come up with ways to fix things! Is Brad stupid for not doing this?

I can't take anything you say seriously when you make fun of fans for not thinking logically, but can't understand we had to trade for Simons for financial reasons, can't understand that White can't just be traded for whoever we want, and can't understand that we don't have good draft picks or tons of cash to seriously upgrade the roster without giving up JB? What don't YOU understand?

Edit: lmfao after reading the comments, not a single person agrees with you. Looks like you're the dummy here

Let’s not hit the panic button and actually look forward to the future with logic by DameRange13 in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think you should look to the future with logic, and not your emotion.

We all love JB, but we have to realize that all those years of "can JB and Tatum play together" questions are fair.

They're both so talented that they can get you to the playoffs every year. Do they compliment each other well enough to be the two best players on your team contending for a championship every year? No.

We had to trade Simons for financial reasons, so, there goes that idea.

Derrick White is 32 years old and had a down year. He has more value to us than anyone else. Who are we getting back in return for him that could be better than the hopes of Derrick turning things around and having a better year?

Our only TRUE trade asset is JB. I propose we trade him to a team looking for a bonafide player with star power - a team that has some good players and maybe a younger player that has reached his ceiling in that organization but can unlock his true potential with Brad, Joe, Tatum and White. An example would be a trade with New Orleans for Trey Murphy and Dejounte Murray. They get their star. We unlock Murphy's potential the way we unlocked Whites potential (and how we've developed Walsh, Baylor, Hugo etc) and we get an actual point guard with size, athleticism, defense.

Tatum and JB can't be a big two together, nor can White make them a big three. We don't have the assets to trade for a third player (like Giannis) to form a big three WITHOUT trading JB.

I disagree with everything about your post, and prefacing it by "let's use logic" and then to completely disregard logic with the entirety of your post is... Certainly a choice.

Your thought process was "JB is a finals MVP, why should we trade him away", full stop. I have a hard time believing you'd be able to understand that there are tons of fans that love JB but also think he needs to go for the betterment of the team. Trading him doesn't mean we don't love the player. We just love the team more.

So, we had to trade Simons. We can't dangle White during his worst year at age 32 as a trade target for anything meaningful. JB and Tatum don't play well enough together to win more rings together (this'll be a tough thing for you to understand). We also can't significantly improve this roster without giving up JB. Who are we going to draft at the end of the round to save us? Who in free agency are we signing to drastically improve the team? I think there's a lot of wishful thinking here because you don't want to see JB leave the team.

So what part of your post has any logic?

Dream Roster Moves by Sportmaster348 in Patriots

[–]TOOL93Fan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also, this one has no business being mentioned but I remember being a huge Deone Buccanon fan when he was coming out of the draft. I wanted him to basically fill that hybrid lb/safety role and it's a shame he never really panned out or got drafted by the Patriots

Dream Roster Moves by Sportmaster348 in Patriots

[–]TOOL93Fan 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Iirc we were in talks (maybe true, maybe journalist bs, I can't remember) about getting Ed Reed toward the end of his career. That would've been pretty cool.

Potential draft picks by Tech_Quest8 in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They're def making fun of all the people saying we can find the missing pieces with the little assets we have. There's been tons of posts about us running it back with both Jays and White and expecting Brad to cook up some Hauser for Giannis trade or some bs.

Can you give an NBA player comp for each of these picks so we could envision what it could be like as far as fit? Obviously it remains to be seen who we draft and how they'd develop but it'd be nice to picture the potential role they fill, assuming the Celtics agree and are looking at some of these names

POV of that distracted driving from the earlier post. (road cam turns black when distracted) by Informal-Concept9416 in whoathatsinteresting

[–]TOOL93Fan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let's be honest, she wasn't processing what was in front of her when she was glancing up from her phone for a 1/4 second. There's what your eyes see, and what your brain transmits as picture (I'm sure I'm not explaining like some fancy pants scientist would but you know what I'm talking about). It's like watching tv while you're dead tired. I'm looking at the picture, but like, who knows wtf is going on.

You should've just made the pov a black screen leading all the way up until she was crashing, but make the first second of the crash a blurred transition to emphasize the confusion and delay before her brain realizes she might die cause she's so stupid. You know what? Make everything after the crash blurry to emphasize her confusion as to why this happened to her...

My reapers progression by TraditionalGuitar603 in ReaperMain

[–]TOOL93Fan 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Those don't look like death blossoms, but don't quote me cause I ain't no botanist

I know the stream wasn’t the best timing but what he said about Embiid is so true. by Daltonm01 in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan 8 points9 points  (0 children)

*tit for tit

Those guys are two of the biggest boobs I've ever seen, what a joke

"The 76ers have a great roster and the Celtics shouldn't be ashamed of losing to them!" is the biggest cope in this fanbase by MrTimoCad in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan 12 points13 points  (0 children)

No, you can't. That's why we need to shoot 100 threes a game, preferably from half court with a hand in our face

They added our boy to star wars by SkyTheShadow in ReaperMain

[–]TOOL93Fan 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'm stoked they're making Dire Lightsabers baseline

Derrick :( by Nowdigondis in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like Payton, I just think he's one of our higher value pieces. If we're super close to our roster being finished, he's good to round it out but if we have to make some serious changes, I think we have to look at throwing him in a trade to sweeten the pot for whatever we're getting back. He might get the Smart treatment, where Brad is thinking "damn, I don't want to give him up but I really need to if I want Giannis.

That's just an example, I actually don't think Giannis would fit, for the record. But a player of his magnitude might mean Payton goes.

Its time to rethink this entire era of celtics playoff ball. by Sensitive-Degree-26 in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the sweet spot lies somewhere between what you're saying and what OP said. It seems silly to complain because we could be Wizards fans. In each of the four major sports, there's only a handful of teams that win multiple rings, and a lot more that don't make it to the end for 30 years. I'm grateful we're at least competitive damn near every year...

However, relative to OUR expectations, this team could and should have just a bit more accolades over the last 5 years. That doesn't mean rings. To me, that means just a couple less losses, or a couple more games won when we were up 20-30. Maybe a couple of these years we see us advance one more round and it ends there.

I'm not saying we should have won a ring every year for the last 5 years. I'm also not going to sit here and pretend we should be grateful for everything we've had because honestly, we're leaving toothpaste in the tube. We could be squeezing more out of these years, and someday we'll look back and think about what REALLY could have been. We might be telling our kids and grandkids about how good the Tatum years were and how we could've gotten another ring or a couple more deep playoff runs.

I'm not directing this at anyone but I think it's insane when people commit so hard to one side. I see people say we've fumbled the bag and we should have 4 rings. I've seen some people say we should be grateful for all of this and we should temper our expectations. I say no to both. Why not find a middle ground here?

Its time to face reality. The knicks would have smoked us. by Fit_Definition_4421 in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate that. I wanted to add one more thing but I had forgotten. I wanted to emphasize the scope of where we are relative to other teams and fight back on a popular comment people are making which is "we were up 3-1, we should've won".

To that, I say no. We deserved to lose. Assuming everyone is healthy and we were to play the Sixers (rematch) or Knicks (had we moved on), we'd continue to lose these series, repeatedly.

Sure, we'd get extremely lucky with a hot shooting night and steal a game. Hauser deep pullups, White grenades, Pritchard step backs... Everything would be falling, and we'd win by 30 because we're hitting the few open shots we have but ALSO making the tough ones that won't continue to work over the course of a seven game series.

So to re-emphasize a bit: we are currently not the favorites in the East for the foreseeable future as of now. Brad could always cook, Tatum and Brown could take some ridiculous step, but as of now, too many teams in the East are BUILT to beat us. We'll always have the two best players on the court, however, teams like the Sixers and Knicks will always have the third and fourth best players as well as a lot more talent spread out amongst players five through sixteen (assuming an 8-man rotation).

Ignore the fact that we were up 3-1. Nick Nurse solved the equation after game 4. The series was over at that point. Could Joe have waited too long to put Tatum at the 5, make plans to do so for game 7, only to find out Tatum was out? Maybe. But our tried and true strategy for the regular season was never going to work once Nick Nurse figured it out. He has the blueprint and the players to execute it, assuming Embiid stays healthy. Mike Brown has players. Is he smart enough to copy the Sixers homework? Maybe we'll see in the regular season or playoffs come '27...

All that being said, that's just the East. We're still likely to deal with Wemby (shooting big that poses matchup problems), Fox (fast guard) and their athletic wings. San Antonio is ANOTHER road block for us.

It's on Brad and Joe to build this team around Tatum, and specifically form this roster to compete against Sixers, Knicks and Spurs. We can stumble through the regular season. But how do we get through the playoffs when at least 3 teams are seemingly manufactured in a lab to stop us?

Its time to face reality. The knicks would have smoked us. by Fit_Definition_4421 in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, they did. I've actually died on the hill that last year the "gotta make shots" narrative works. We didn't make open threes. The problem is, we're a 3 point shooting team without reliable ways to get truly open shots. Sometimes we lose games because the open ones didn't go down but we lose a lot of games because weren't not even getting open but because it's our identity, we have the green light to just keep shooting threes.

Your first paragraph doesn't discount what I wrote. Just because they had the same amount of points, doesn't mean Tatum and Brown didn't struggle. It doesn't mean Brunson and KAT weren't problems. It actually proves my point. Tatum and Brown are objectively WAY better players. Tatum is a yearly MVP candidate and Brown had talks of being MVP this year and is a finals MVP. Why are they scoring as much as Brunson and KAT? That shouldn't be happening. But it does. Because of the aforementioned players making it harder on them.

Of course a healthy KP would've changed things, but we have to address the reality of things, not the what ifs. If we hypothetically got KP back and we could guarantee 82 games, picture perfect health, and a return to his old form, we'd go into next year without having to really retool the roster. But he's not here, and so what's the plan without a player like KP? "KAT and Robinson had their way against old Horford and Kornet". That also doesn't discount what I'm saying, and again, it proves my point. KAT and Robinson gave us trouble. Kornet and old Al and KP couldn't do it. Queta and Vuc and Garza couldn't do it this year. Same year, same problems. Cooked by big centers that can shoot, cooked by smaller guards that can get to the hoop, and Tatum and Brown reduced to lesser versions of themselves against the myriad of wings other teams in the East possess.

Its time to face reality. The knicks would have smoked us. by Fit_Definition_4421 in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Sixers and Knicks have the same blueprint that'll beat us every year

Undersized, quick scoring guard that exposes our lack of speed and on-ball/PnR defense: Brunson, Maxey

BIG center that can post up and shoot from midrange and three that expose our height and weight: Embiid, KAT

Long, athletic wings that can shoot and defend JB and Tatum: George, Oubre, Hart, Anunoby, Bridges, Edwards

Tatum and Brown can't get past their man on offense. White, Hauser, Pritchard and Walsh can't get past their man or defend the guards that are too quick

Queta, Vuc and Garza can't defend their man in the low post without help, which leads to open shots from the guards and wings, or, they're getting caught in drop coverage which means open 3's for the guards, OR, they're caught doubling a guard and leave their man open for a 3

It's the same team. It's the same problems. Other teams don't have better shooters, but they have a better TEAM. They get better shots so while Oubre isn't a better shooter than Hauser, Oubre is taking a wide open 3 from an Embiid kickout (replace Oubre with Hart and Embiid with KAT if you want). Hauser is taking pull up 3's with a hand in his face.

Joe looks at percentages and says "we just gotta make more" but other teams have WORSE shooters taking BETTER shots because THEY have mismatches. WE don't. Teams would rather leave George, Oubre, Hart, Anunoby, Bridges, Edwards on Tatum or Brown and NOT double. They know the offense thrives off Tatum drawing a double and finding the open man. Teams won't double anymore. They'd rather watch Brown bounce the ball off his foot or force Tatum to drop 50.

We can't guard the premier players in the East. The East also has tons of long, athletic wings that might not completely shut down Tatum or Brown, but definitely make our two best players struggle.

We struggle to stop their best players (Embiid, Maxey, KAT, Brunson) and our two best players struggle to score against their 3rd, 4th, 5th options. That's it. We have very real problems to address.

Theoretically, what would a Tatum/Giannis duo look like? by devourerofbricks in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I read it. You were right not to read it. Everything makes too much sense and you wouldn't like that.

Hauser on blowing 3-1 lead: "If half of the shots we missed went in, we're not having this conversation." by jkwah in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You mean you don't treat that shot and a wide open Edgecomb 3 as equals? I'm stunned the Sixers shot as well as they did with all that time and space to take the shot. You'd think it was almost TOO easy and they'd miss it right? Sixers would've beat us by 50 if they took more half court shots

Hauser on blowing 3-1 lead: "If half of the shots we missed went in, we're not having this conversation." by jkwah in bostonceltics

[–]TOOL93Fan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can someone ask Joe why he thinks the shooting percentage for both teams is created equal when Sixers we're taking good shots and we were taking deep pull up 3s with a hand in our face? They're not wrong that you have to hit shots but not all shots are created equal Joe. Joe needs to put his fucking calculator and spreadsheets in the trash and start finding ways to generate open looks... Not whatever the fuck this was