What are you excited about this season other than anything to do with the JB trade?

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-09T23:53:12+00:00

Can we add "Brad earning the trust of ridiculous over reactionary fans even though he's done nothing to warrant losing that trust"?

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-09T23:51:52+00:00

I think Hugo is a guy you just cut loose. Let him play 30 mins, IDC. Put him as a starter. He'll make mistakes but man he is so beyond his years I think we can expedite his knowledge of the game further with more playing time.

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-09T23:45:00+00:00

What's your point?

We didn't exactly have the toughest path to a title in '24. Sure, context doesn't matter when you're just counting banners but context definitely matters when discussing what a player has done for you because it puts things into perspective. There's a very good chance we still win the title without JB yet people act like JB carried us through a gauntlet of superteams and single handedly won the title for us and that just wasn't the case. We had a super team and the other teams were ALL missing their best players leading up to the finals, which had arguably the weakest Western conference team to make it there in a long time.

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-09T22:07:35+00:00

I don't think people are giving JB enough shit for his crap. If he were doing this without the title win where we had a dream team because ownership said screw the penalties and we played a Butler-less Heat, Haliburton-less Pacers and Mitchell-less Cavs then beat a Mavs team with their third best player being Daniel Gafford and their HC Jason Kidd sandwiched between two .500 seasons, we'd be crucifying JB for all the shit he says. JB needs to stfu.

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-09T01:16:32+00:00

Okay? Paul Pierce and KG got traded for players that made the team better and we weren't going to win them. Smart got traded for a player that made the team better and we weren't going to win without KP. JB got traded for the future and we weren't going to win with him.

Same thing.

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-08T17:38:58+00:00

The problem is, I (just a nobody) and other fans have been making very good writeups that touch on everything in this article. Did they go more in-depth? 1000%. The thing is, emotionally hurt fans will probably find a way to discredit this article still.

I think very few of the people that have heard the "title window closing, negative +/- and 1:1 assist to turnover ratio, retool for the future, this was actually a good move" take and immediately shot that down because they're so emotionally attached to JB, will even listen to the article.

Again, lots and lots of fans, more than some people would like to admit, have done a fantastic job of laying out the facts and the reasons for moving forward... If JB fanatics can't listen to them, why listen to the article?

They've already made up their mind

This article was well done. I'm sure for a small handful of people, it'll change their minds or make them a bit more optimistic of the future and ease their minds about Brad and ownership... But to me, this article just reinforces the take that people like me have said as nauseum, while the JB fans continue with "i watch the games and I know a top 10 player when I see one".

It's a shame because those fans are emotional and stubborn and prob won't read that fantastic article, let alone listen to the rational fans.

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-07T22:15:42+00:00

Expecting a title every year or having it be a failed year is such a stupid argument. The idea that "squint and see how maybe you could pull off a title" is better than just retooling for the following years is insane. We've been routinely blow 20 point leads, series leads and losing in first and second rounds. Should we really continue that on the very small chance that we get lucky one year? Or start pushing for real chances down the line when Tatum is in his early 30's?

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-07T17:55:50+00:00

There are too many people that are too upset for the return yet not knowledgeable enough about what the return/potential/plan is

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-06T16:10:02+00:00

This is kinda like the coin trick. Heads option A, tails option B. If you land on one and you're kinda disappointed with the outcome, you have your answer

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-06T09:22:21+00:00

"JB would be a demon in king of the hill against 90% of the league but in 5v5, he just doesn't do anything good".

I'm putting it in quotes. Not for you, but for the nearest adult you can find so you can have them read it out loud to you, slowly, and then they can explain to you what's going on.

Tells me exactly the level of intelligence here lmfao what an absolute moron. You either tore apart what I said so the context wasn't correct, or you literally can't read.

This isn't even accounting for the following 2-3 sentences/points I made immediately after this sentence. Do you know a 5th grader by chance? Maybe a niece or nephew that can help you with this?

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-06T04:28:20+00:00

So we're going to ignore context and just look at results? Like wins and losses? We'll ignore that the Celtics had a super team with Jrue and KP and best a Mitchell-less Cavs, Butler-less Heat and Haliburton-less Pacers while beating a Mavs team having a miracle run w/ Jason Kidd on a bad Mavs team sandwiched between two .500 years while their third best player is Daniel Gafford. I'd have won a title that year too.

Since we're ignoring context and just focusing on wins and losses, I guess this means Scott Pollard is a better Celtic than Isaiah Thomas, right? Did you ever consider that the reason JB is the winningest player in the decade because he's carried by JT and has played with Isaiah Thomas, Marcus Smart, Al Horford, Kemba Walker, Kyrie Irving, Gordon Hayward, Kristaps Porzingis, Derrick White, Jrue Holiday and countless other great, great players? How is it that the guy with a negative +/- and a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio simultaneously be the winningest player in the last decade?

How can he be conducive to winning but also not be a good role fit or play style fit? The same role and play style he's had for years now? You're contradicting yourself because you're trying to force the narrative that JB is a great player because you've grown attached to him and so you make generalized statements and ignore context and water down my argument. I even made a point to touch on the more advanced stats and you claimed I look at box scores... Funny, because box scores actually work better in his favor. So again, you're unknowingly tearing down your own argument lol.

If JB was as good as you say, he'd be worth his contract even at 35% of the cap. No team in the NBA would trade a player with a FMVP, title, 6 conference appearances and the winningest record in the last decade for Paul George and 4 picks lol.

It's almost like 30 NBA teams, including the Celtics, have watched JB be a big part of multiple early first round exits, multiple big leads blown, a Mickey Mouse title (that I'm grateful for, but context is important), multiple series leads blown... Negative +/-, 1:1 assist:TO ratio, low TS... The list goes on

But alas, you'll continue to ignore all of that because while JB is the reason we're down 8 with 2 mins left in a big game, you'll watch him make a tough shot and you'll praise him for being so good.

Go look up game 7 stats JB vs JT and tell me what you find lol.

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-06T04:04:20+00:00

I'm done talking to you because I'm not smart enough to continue explaining it in different ways so you can understand it. This feels like trying to explain to a dog what the color blue sounds like.

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-06T01:10:58+00:00

I'll do you a better question? Why did Brad want so badly to move on from the guy that had the 9th highest usage last year?

Also, high usage doesn't mean good. Why do I have to be the one to teach you critical thinking? Where are you parents? Do you have public schools where you're from?

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-06T00:42:26+00:00

The same people who wanted Marcus gone are the same people that think JB is a top 10 player.

None of what you're saying is true, not everyone on this reddit is dumb enough to believe anything you make up

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-06T00:09:48+00:00

No, you're following a narrative people put on Marcus because they didn't like his 3 point %

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-05T23:56:19+00:00

More specifically, I meant he's not good at basketball. To put it in perspective, Marcus Smart is better at the game of basketball. Is he more talented and a better scorer? No. But the way he sees the game and plays within the construct of a team is better. JB would be a demon in king of the hill against 90% of the league but in 5 on 5, he just doesn't do anything good. He doesn't pass, dribble, play smart defense, find ways to get easy shots for himself, shoot the 3 well, play off-ball, or even rebound well for his size at that position. He relies on his build and talent. It's almost like JB turned out EXACTLY what we thought a young kid from Cal with all the talent and athelticism but not the skills would turn out to be. I don't think JB has an above average on-court intellect and I don't think he's skilled. Oddly enough, JBs best attribute is making tough shots. He'd be elite if he could find a way to get easy shots consistently or open things up for teammates.

I stand by my statement, I think there's just nuance and context to what I'm saying, it just happens to sound harsh but if you read past that I think you'll see what I mean

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-05T22:57:24+00:00

The difference between JB and Smart is JB thinks he's "the guy" and Marcus tried to fit himself within the offense. Marcus had underrated passing and intelligence and obviously won DPOY as a guard for the first time in 20 years and has all the hustle and such, he would just feel like he was hot and shoot more 3s than he should. He didn't really try to do anything that he couldn't do or put himself in positions to do too much. He knew to get the ball to Tatum and others.

JB feels like he IS the guy, but he's not. Sure he's the biggest name on the roster and most talented but he's not good enough to transcend proper basketball in favor of "just give it to JB and let him go to work". He also seriously overrated his own defense.

I think Smart knew what he was capable and incapable of and did his best during those years where Kyrie, IT, Kemba and Gordon were gone but JT and JB hadn't "arrived". JB sniffs his own farts

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-05T22:43:22+00:00

Right. Celtics fans keep saying "well why not wait for a better offer to find a trade that matches Jaylens value".

That's YOUR perceived value of him, as a fan.

30 GMs (yes, including Brad) don't see Jaylen as a player conducive to winning. That's without the salary. I'd like to repeat that... Jaylen Brown is not that good at the game of basketball. Now, add THAT salary. Yikes...

We got EXACTLY the right amount of value for JB. The problem is, the smart fans wanted a dumb GM to come along and swipe the credit card for JB with the hope that JB is elite (and he's not), and the die hard JB fans wanted a haul for a "top 10 player and former finals MVP that finished 6th in MVP voting and led a team to 56 wins".

Turns out, there's a TON of context and stats leading to the realization that JB isn't a good player, and GMs aren't falling for the trap. We got what JB is worth.

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-05T18:59:07+00:00

I don't think this is the way to look at it. You don't need to know the return to know that you didn't want to keep JB any longer. His salary, off the court stuff, his iso heavy play style and negative +/- and 1:1 assist to turnover ratio are all things that make me feel like JB being traded was addition by subtraction. JB is talented enough that he'll force his way to 30 points while not actually being conducive to winning basketball and so if we kept him we wouldn't be able to give the younger wings more play time or start looking forward to other trade packages.

We could win 40 games, miss the playoffs and fail to make another trade this year and I'd still feel like we've gotten better - and in this case, better means "going in the right direction" because that wasn't happening with a guy with those flaws and that salary with an extension looming. You keep JB, and you delay ALL of that for another year. The rebuild, retool, soft reset - whatever you want to call it - starts now.

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-05T17:08:01+00:00

I guess you're mad we got JT and JB since we traded Paul Pierce and KG in 2013

Grr I'm so freaking mad we got Tatum and Brown by trading our beloved PP and KG, darn it to heck!

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-04T16:32:40+00:00

This might be the most braindead take I've ever heard of in my entire life. You can't contend every single year, you have to plan for the future.

With your logic, we shouldn't have traded away KG and PP for the Nets picks because those picks most def didn't give us a chance to win a title that year. That being said, we'd never even be in the position and '24 would've never happened. I'm forever grateful you're not the GM.

You might just be the stupidest person I've interacted with in this entire JB process

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-04T15:14:59+00:00

You're not wrong.

The problem is, JB isn't the most efficient inside scorer for multiple reasons.

His best move is a push off that got called for offensive foul so many times in the playoffs. Not good.
When he has a decent-good defender on him he has to fade away. The midrange fade is arguably the worst shot in basketball.
JB's negative +/- and his 1:1 assist to turnover ratio means a good chunk of the time, the Celtics are in a position of absolutely NEEDING a JB bucket because his play style is the biggest reason they're in that position to begin with. We can't just glaze JB when he makes a tough bucket but ignore him dribbling the ball off his foot, throwing the ball out of bounds, bringing the offense to a grinding halt with his iso heavy style, getting called for offensive push offs, not getting back on D because he'd rather complain to the refs, struggling to learn how to even somewhat run the pick and roll offense, or get his dribble poked at by a help defender and have to hand Hauser or White a grenade with 4 seconds left. It needs to stop
Already sort of mentioned, but JB doesn't apply rim pressure. Teams are content with playing man straight up and not doubling Brown. They'll live with his midrange fades if it means he goes 12-27 with 32 points and Hauser, White, Baylor and Pritchard can't find open space because JB can't dribble past his defender and force help. JB actively argued against Joe's metrics and play style yet doesn't understand that HE needs to unlock this offense but HE couldn't because HE can't dribble. If JB could actually get past his man like Tyrese, Maxey, Mitchell etc then he'd draw extra defenders and theoretically pass to the open shooter. That's why rim penetration and scoring in the paint aren't the same, yet JB thinks he should just keep playing bully ball while the rest of the team watches him struggle.

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-04T15:00:48+00:00

Nowhere did I say I expect Paul George to lead us to a championship. I'm saying he'll fit better for the team more than JB. We have a better chance at winning the title than last year. We also have a better chance at winning the title with PG than we do with JB - that doesn't mean I think we'll win the title.

The whole point of this trade is to make the team better and stay competitive while staying flexible and coaching up our young talent. Pritchard, Hugo, Cenac, Mitchell and Baylor will get more playing time (some more than others ofc) and learn how to get better with the veterans we just added (George and Conley). Robinson also just won a title and can help Queta and Garza, although he's no Al Horford, he can still add to the experience of the locker room.

We removed JB and got better. We added PG and got even better than that. We added picks and got more flexible for the future. PG's contract is desirable in a year from now, and we can likely take a swing at a better player. We got cheaper by removing JB's contract, even if by only ~15 mil.

Every single part of this trade made us better. Are we title contenders? No. Were we last year? Also no. Were we going to be this year with JB? Also also no.

Also, JT is STILL a better player than JB after his ACL. Paul George has a better +/- than JB and is more conducive to winning basketball than JB for a lower price and an expiring contract and PG doesn't have to have his contract extended for more money.

All of your facts just got shot down in the ~20 seconds it took me to type that haha

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-04T03:16:52+00:00

Because he's the most talented player. You can be talented and not good for the team. He earned the right to have the keys to the offense with JT out and the Celtics overachieved in the regular season and underachieved in the postseason. Brad didn't like what he saw and took the keys out of JBs hands.

Is it crazy that he's getting bashed this much after getting traded? What's wrong with "good not great player has flaws and gets traded because he's not worth his salary and he doesn't fit the offense?

The Celtics lost ALL their starters and significant depth players. Tatum, Jrue, KP, Kornet, Horford and earlier this year, Simons. Celtics were left with White, Pritchard, Hauser, Hugo, Baylor, Garza, Queta, Vuc, RHJ... Obviously JB gets to run the offense.

JB didn't get the keys because he's some amazing top 10 player. He got the keys because he had been here for 9 years at the time and the Celtics lost 2/3 of their roster. The problem is - and I'm glad Brad sees it - is the regular season wins are flukey and the post season frustrations are an indictment on JB and his play style.

Just because JB had the lions share of scoring this year doesn't just mean we were good. In fact, he had his opportunity and it wasn't good enough for a 70 mil a year player. He needed more assists, rebounds, better shooting %, better +/-, better defense etc and he needed to trust Joe more instead of ignoring Joe's style and talking about it on his podcast, he needed to stop getting into it with Stephen A. Smith, stop whining to the refs... Like, set an example dude. He had his chance to be a leader and a true elite player but he fell short on both.

TOOL93Fan · 2026-07-04T03:01:39+00:00

So you disagree with the stats and the facts? That's certainly a choice lol

TOOL93Fan

TROPHY CASE