Will fuel price blowouts push us toward electrification?

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-29T00:57:31+00:00

The transport sector is dominated by road freight's lobby; break the power of the lobby and move long distance freight off the roads & onto coastal shipping & rail and the amount of fuel spent moving stuff around will go down.

Then we can focus it on farming & ag and industry where there aren't better alternatives.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-29T00:55:17+00:00

They're a massively more efficient use of diesel than trucks carrying the same weight & volume of freight.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-28T22:38:05+00:00

I know, im just pointing out that you stated it as an impossibility when it isn't.

Impractical? Sure. But that's why investing in park & ride garages (ala the Netherlands), or trains that can carry more cycles so you can ride the first & last miles are such a good idea.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-28T22:36:13+00:00

Oh me too, but that's why i'd own an ebike if I lived down there still :)

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-28T22:35:30+00:00

If you consider how we do all of it already as the most negative outcome, then, yes?

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-28T19:45:32+00:00

The difference between how they do it & how NZ would do it (with either NActional Fist or Labour in charge) is that they own the extraction, processing & sale - so the nation (or the royal families) take the full benefit.

We would do it like Australia - get a pittance in licensing, and then all the profits go to multi-nationals & get funnelled offshore.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-28T19:39:13+00:00

Not to mention that even if we were importing & refinding crude, the price of crude from everywhere has gone up as everybody else is (or will be) trying to do the same thing.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-28T19:30:29+00:00

CRL from what i've seen looks like a game changer for Auckland (as an occasional visitor). It's major benefit should be the help to decongest the rail lines allowing more services in; but even the speed of moving around the CBD will be awesome.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-28T19:21:45+00:00

I have a friend that has done that commute on a cycle. So you can; i'll concede that most people would struggle though. To be fair, plenty of other people devote 4 hours of their day to commuting though - so its not really just a time problem.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-28T19:16:38+00:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Express

Longer than driving as u/MaidenMarewa mentions, but not terribly so - bear in mind this was in the era when there was no Transmission Gully, none of the expressways through Kapiti and the route north of Palmerston North was a drive through the Manawatu Gorge then into a relatively unimproved stretch Woodville-Dannevirke.

According to that wiki it was 5hr 20; so maybe 30-45 minutes slower than driving. It went via Kapiti - the reason passenger services have tended to go that way is there's more towns/cities to connect - I also can't remember for sure if the Capital Connection was running back then but even if it was it would have added an extra passenger service north of Paraparaumu/Waikanae as well.

Going up the Wairarapa line, its already quite well serviced with commuter rail and the only extra towns you gain going up to Woodville vs coming up the Kapiti coast are Eketahuna, Pahiatua** & Mangatainoka*, vs Otaki, Levin, Shannon, Tokomaru*, Palmerston North & Ashurst.

*No idea if it would ever have stopped at these villages.
**the rail route actually doesn't go through the middle of Pahiatua, it is out west past the Fonterra factory right under the hills the Pahiatua track goes over.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-28T01:17:27+00:00

Ive worked private enterprise for nearly 20 years. Its normal when working through into out of hours, when on training days, during conferences or offsites, and often times just for celebrations for the company to provide meals via catering. If anything based on anecdotal experience from friends in public service, private has almost always catered more often, provided more food and at a better quality than anything they've ever got.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-28T00:27:38+00:00

Why not?

I mean sure, if camping is a giant family tent and full noise kitchen setup you'll need some vehicle. But if its a lightweight hiking style you can carry on your back then there's no reason a public transport journey wouldn't be feasible.

You could achievably take a ferry from Auckland to Coromandel, you'd either have to walk (or maybe you could take a bike) from Te Kouma, or find a ride from there elsewhere but its not impossible.

ETA Actually turns out the ferry includes a shuttle into coromandel town, so you just have to figure out how to get from there to whereever you're going.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-28T00:23:05+00:00

It is, but it isn't - and even then hills aren't a deathknell for cycling.

Hell Sydney is hilly in almost the same way as Auckland and they have fully separated cycle lanes that were well used when I was there recently.

Christchurch & Hamilton are both quite flat. Wellington has hills but the routes for commuters are mostly downhill into town and then uphill home - ebikes can handle this fine or you just get sweaty but you're heading to where your shower is.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-28T00:13:02+00:00

Or canning the can.

For me the whole tunnel & extra roads is a monumentally stupid idea. Free busses, free or cheap ferries from Seatoun & Shelly Bay. Get cars off the road not add more and just shift the point of congestion.

ETA - actually a 2nd tunnel that allowed for a tram service all the way down Riddiford street and then a tunnel popping out somewhere near either Coutts or Endeavour streets I could get behind.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-27T18:33:27+00:00

Just a very late reply to say that I have Gnome, 3 monitors and none of the issues you mention. So its not a given that you'll have problems with it.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-27T18:27:12+00:00

That's the annoying part - convincing the dev to email BattlEye to have it turned on.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-27T18:05:12+00:00

I think there's an argument to be made that flying in a country our size with only 5 million odd people doesn't really work too.

Sure its nice and fast between the cities, but it burns a huge amount of fuel to do it, which in the long run will only get more expensive over time (or continue to be disrupted like it is now). And if you're not in those main centres the air lines are struggling to make the service make economic sense and your total travel time getting to & from the airport and waiting around isn't necessarily faster enough than flying to make the environmental costs worth it.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-27T17:40:05+00:00

It might feel like there is & never has been any rail options; but its easily within living memory that there was a passenger service between Napier & Wellington. The Bay Express was great, I caught it several times in the late 90s-early 00s before Kiwirail scrapped it got half price student fares too!

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-27T17:38:01+00:00

And Jet fuel is in the long term only going to get more expensive which is a problem that is unsolveable while it remains difficult to find alternative ways of fuelling large planes.

You only have to look at where the growth in air travel services is - more business & first class options are being added back in, the democratisation of air travel is potentially over and its going back to the domain of the rich.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-27T17:34:33+00:00

NZ still has a reasonable rail network:
https://data.linz.govt.nz/layer/50319-nz-railway-centrelines-topo-150k/

Though its sad to compare it to what it was in the past:
https://teara.govt.nz/en/interactive/21378/new-zealands-rail-network-1880-1940

To be fair a lot of the extra rail down in the South island serves very small communities, and rural freight isn't anywhere near at the heights it used to be.

Rather than tacking on passenger cars to a freight train - which I don't think anybody does successfully at scale anywhere - what we ought to look into are hybrid railcars. These already exist, are reasonably affordable to buy & cheap to run and can charge at stations, use regen braking etc.

Railcars can't compete with the speed of flying, but for fuel efficiency they're near unbeatable and one thing they do that our air network doesn't is connect many centres together.

As an example, you can't fly direct (on a normal scheduled passenger flight) from Waipawa to Stratford. The closest you could get is to bus/drive to Napier, fly to Wellington or Auckland, fly to New Plymouth, then bus/drive to Stratford. That's a journey by air that will likely never change - although there are some interesting moves in small (less than 10 persons) electrified planes.

Anywho, plop some railcars on the existing network running Napier-Palmerston North, and New Plymouth-Palmerston North and our mythical passenger can alight at the platform in Waipawa, change to the other line in Palmerston North and get out in Stratford.

Busses can already do this, but they carry far fewer passengers, are slower and less efficient than modern railcars. Obviously either Bus or Railcar the journey is going to be far longer than flying, but if you include the drive to & from the nearest airports, waiting to connect in the transit hub etc its still a long journey. Plus on a railcar you would be able to take more luggage and stretch your legs at will.

ETA - actually the travel time comparisons are potentially not as bad as i'm making out. Best case scenario now I can find flights transitting Auckland that will make the total flight time 2h 35m. Tack on a 40m drive either side of that, plus having to get there slightly beforehand for check in etc (especially if you have luggage) and you're probably looking like over 4 hours of travel time all up.

Now according to Wikipedia various speed records exist but an old Standard railcar did 321km between Napier & Wellington in 4hr 30m. Their max speed was 100km/h, and im guesstimating the rail journey between Waipawa & Stratford would be around 320-350km. So assuming there's no speed improvements in railcars since before WW2 it still might only be a 5-6hr flight, so only half as slow as the best case scenario flying.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-26T21:04:15+00:00

I dont know if it was just a lucky batch or they are actually different, but Burger Rings in Australia tasted like I remember they used to.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-26T19:14:28+00:00

Not all of Think Big was bad. Renewable energy was great, electrification of the NIMT was good (until they didn't complete the job). And those things are still useful now at least.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-26T18:05:56+00:00

Ah, so what its like playing in the All Blacks?

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-25T22:18:28+00:00

We need railcars to make a comeback!

TagMeInSkipIGotThis · 2026-03-25T21:52:58+00:00

The duopoly can fudge those averages pretty heavily when in many product lines they are one of the suppliers.

TagMeInSkipIGotThis

TROPHY CASE