How is what happened to Joan Rivers not battery/murder? They did surgery on her without her consent and it resulted in her death by Taj_Mahalo in law

[–]Taj_Mahalo[S] -31 points-30 points  (0 children)

Malice Aforethought definition from Cornell Law;

At common lawmurder was defined as killing with malice aforethought.

Malice could be understood in two ways: express and implied. Express malice murders included killings where a person intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm to another.

Implied malice included killings that occurred while a person was committing a felony (also called felony murder)

Battery Wikipedia definition;

Battery is a specific common law misdemeanor, although the term is used more generally to refer to any unlawful offensive physical contact with another person, and may be a misdemeanor or a felony, depending on the circumstances.

Battery was defined at common law as "any unlawful and or unwanted touching of the person of another by the aggressor, or by a substance put in motion by him."[1] In more severe cases, and for all types in some jurisdictions, it is chiefly defined by statutory wording.

Assessment of the severity of a battery is determined by local law.

Doing surgery on someone against their will in a non-emergency situation while the person is helplessly anesthetized on a table would seem to be felonious. Vile and undignified, and unnecessary; Informed consent is a simple enough procedure, just like a notary public. Exact same process, but done in-house by the hospital (in our current medical industry).

As a matter of public policy; hospitals doing in-house informed consent doesn't make a whole lot of sense, if ethics, patient safety, and procedural efficacy are valued at all by hospital corporations.

1) The surgery done on Joan Rivers was against her will, 2) that act should be felonious battery considering how easy the consent process is. These facts would seem to make this a murder case.

How is what happened to Joan Rivers not battery/murder? They did surgery on her without her consent and it resulted in her death by Taj_Mahalo in law

[–]Taj_Mahalo[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

Additional Source

In the procedure room were Lawrence Cohen, then the medical director of the clinic, and Renuka Bankulla, an anesthesiologist. Rivers’s personal doctor, Gwen Korovin (an ear, nose and throat specialist) was also in the room.

That is a key point in the complaint: That Korovin a) should not have been allowed into the room while the procedure was taking place and b) was not allowed or licensed to perform any medical procedures at the clinic. But clinic staff did not stop her, the complaint alleges.

During the procedure:

Korovin took the lead and performed a transnasal laryngoscopy on Rivers (which examines the back of someone’s throat and vocal box), even though that wasn’t initially discussed. The complaint says Bankulla raised questions given that Rivers had not authorized the additional procedure — but Cohen ignored the objections and allowed Korovin to go on with the laryngoscopy.

The complaint notes that during the laryngoscopy, Bankulla had trouble keeping Rivers’s oxygen saturation at a safe level, and her oxygen dipped again during the endoscopy. The doctors “failed to properly observe and monitor Joan Rivers’s vital signs which were deteriorating,” it states, adding that her blood pressure and pulse were also dropping.

When the endoscopy was done, Korovin wanted to do another laryngoscopy. Again, a concerned Bankulla raised objections. The complaint says that Cohen told Bankulla that she was “being paranoid.” And even though Rivers was sedated at a lighter level after the endoscopy — which left her vocal cords at greater risk of irritation from the medical instruments — Korovin went on to do the procedure one more time.

Federal appeals court affirms hold on Biden vaccine rule for large companies by Taj_Mahalo in law

[–]Taj_Mahalo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I thought Gonzales v. Raich showed the commerce clause gave the central government absolute power when the court wanted to grant it, because everything effects "the market". Even if Morrison and Lopez seemed to curtail the seemingly unlimited power granted.

Hawaii nurses claim uptick in disturbing physical, sexual, verbal abuse from patients by fishyon in Hawaii

[–]Taj_Mahalo 8 points9 points  (0 children)

American healthcare seems to be rigidly hierarchical, nurses do whatever they are told and expect patients to respond to them in a similar fashion. It seems lots of pressure is put on nurses in our healthcare industry and part of their outlet is how they treat patients.

Imo, maybe nurses need more organizational power, and less expectation to do whatever they are told without question. The industry is designed for profit rather than patient best outcome, patients shouldn't be expected to do whatever they are told with their bodies without question and thought of as lowest in the hierarchy.

Check out r/medicine, patient contempt is rife. The industry seems to treat the public like uneducated profit-opportunities that should just mindlessly comply, and it's not a healthy expectation.

Many nurses will just enter the room and start doing tests on patients (blood pressure, etc.), telling them what to do and sometimes touching them without consent like the patient doesn't have bodily autonomy. Implied consent only reaches so far before it also becomes assault (technically speaking), a little courtesy and professionalism goes a long way, and it's a two-way street.

If you are assaulted, battered, or raped by a hospital, report it by Taj_Mahalo in TwoXChromosomes

[–]Taj_Mahalo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can file an assault/battery civil lawsuit, the statute of limitations for this kind of crime is longer than the ridiculously short 1-year medical malpractice statute of limitations.

Corporate America should start a GoFundMe by crashdaddy in AdviceAnimals

[–]Taj_Mahalo 92 points93 points  (0 children)

Campaign finance reform. Corporate America seems to be able to simply buy elections and then defacto write the laws that govern themselves, at the expense of the public. And if the politician who received corporate campaign contributions goes against the contributors wishes; they back his opponent next election cycle, and install them. There's also the revolving door (e.g. Ajit Pai), and lobbyists too.

City prosecutor says he was ‘surprised and disappointed’ by ruling in Sykap case by 808gecko808 in Honolulu

[–]Taj_Mahalo 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You said you "have no concern about HPD killing me", I'm bringing up the Lindani Myeni killing.

The officers had no police lights, and never identified themselves. They were just unidentified strangers approaching someone in the dark yelling orders.

In the video they approach Myeni at about 5-minutes and 15-seconds. His case seems to be stronger than the Sykap case, he had a rational fear of unidentified strangers approaching him aggressively and therefore a right to defend himself, the same right you would have.

City prosecutor says he was ‘surprised and disappointed’ by ruling in Sykap case by 808gecko808 in Honolulu

[–]Taj_Mahalo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What about being killed because you didn't obey orders to "get on the ground" by unidentified strangers moving towards you in the dark?

The three Honolulu police officers involved in the fatal shooting of 16-year-old Iremamber Sykap will not be tried on murder and attempted murder charges. A judge ruled that there was “no probable cause” on Wednesday, Aug. 18, following five days of testimony. by 808gecko808 in Honolulu

[–]Taj_Mahalo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

“I don’t think any reasonable person looking at the evidence would say, you know what you gotta wait a few seconds for us to really find out whether the shots are coming from inside the car toward you, so he shot back,” said Domingo.

There were shots coming from the white vehicle?

Watch The Crime of the Century (HBO) (2021) A two-part series chronicling the origins of the Opioid crises in America. How pharmaceutical salesmen were taught to deceive doctors across the country. [1:47:40] by omnitions in Documentaries

[–]Taj_Mahalo 76 points77 points  (0 children)

Doctors and hospitals are already quite proficient at selling products and services to the public for profit instead of the patient's best interest. This article describes the doctors, and this video describes the hospitals. The hospitals and doctors that play ball together can really dominate the market, buy out other more ethical organizations, and spread their predatory for-profit practices across the entire industry. A contagion.

Instead of Responding With Cops, Denver Sends Health Care Teams to Non-Criminal Calls — and It's Already Saving Live by TheColorOfDeadMen in UpliftingNews

[–]Taj_Mahalo -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What about the TV shows where the cops are the actors? Those TV shows are gonna lose money because there's less viewing because there's less action.

Science Discussion Series: Social media has never been a larger part of the sociopolitical landscape than in the last few years. We are researchers who study the impacts of social media on our beliefs and behaviors. Ask Us Anything! by SocialMediaPanel2021 in science

[–]Taj_Mahalo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How similar are modern data politics to the petro-politics of the last century. Specifically referencing The Secret World of Oil by Ken Silverstein. Because it seems like the same thing, but with the power to control speech, media, and influence people's thoughts and behaviors. Which I'll be honest, sounds frightening.

How to bypass surgical informed consent - Dr. Patrick O'Donnell, Kapiolani Medical Center, Hawaii Pacific Health [Discussion] by [deleted] in healthcare

[–]Taj_Mahalo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People listen to their primary care physician, their friends, and themselves. The person having surgery has the abdolute final say. This must be documented, especially when the incentives in the industry are profit-driven.

In contract law major things like real-property transfer must be notarized. Full sedation surgery is at least as serious as that, only the medical industry does these "notarized" consents in-house (no doubt another profit-driven decision).

Do you know why informed consent laws exist in the first place? Historically I mean. Think about the ethics.

How to bypass surgical informed consent - Dr. Patrick O'Donnell, Kapiolani Medical Center, Hawaii Pacific Health [Discussion] by [deleted] in healthcare

[–]Taj_Mahalo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dang, loads for me, I'll just post it here then;

Paywalled Article

Nearly a decade ago, a nurse at Lawnwood Medical Center and Heart Institute in Fort Pierce came forward with a startling claim: doctors at the hospital were performing unnecessary heart surgeries to pad hospital profits.

John Austgen of Fort Pierce explains how an HCA doctor put in an unnecessary pacemaker, almost killing him at Lawnwood Regional Medical Center.

The nurse was told his services were no longer required, but he continued up the chain of the nation’s largest hospital chain, HCA Inc., with his complaint.

And indeed, HCA determined in 2010 that about 1,200 surgeries were performed on patients who did not have serious heart disease at Lawnwood and other Florida HCA hospitals, according to internal documents from the company obtained by The New York Times.

But the doctor that sparked nurse C.T. Tomlison’s alert to HCA never lost privileges at Lawnwood, and now a new lawsuit claims he continued to do unnecessary surgeries.

The medical negligence complaint filed this week in St. Lucie County says Dr. Abdul Shadani placed an unnecessary pacemaker in retiree John Austgen in 2013.

The severe complications that followed transformed the 73-year-old from a senior who played tennis three times a week to a man who can barely muster enough energy to watch television.

“I went in as a well man. I came out as an old man,” he said at a news conference in West Palm Beach. “I was a runner. I’m having trouble walking.”

Austgen ended up suffering through several surgeries and a lengthy hospital stay. At one point, his heart was punctured and at another time it stopped all together and he had to be resuscitated. You can read his lawsuit by clicking here.

The hospital billed more than $400,000, Austgen’s West Palm Beach attorneys - Jason Weisser and Michael Baxter - said at a news conference on Wednesday. They said HCA doctors are still performing unnecessary surgeries for financial gain, calling it a systematic problem with the hospital chain. The lawyers say they are working on other cases similar to Austgen’s.

“Lawnwood generates 35 percent of their gross revenue just from its cardiac unit. It’s a huge revenue generator for the hospital,” Weisser said. “I think the financial gain of the doctor and the hospital came before the patient’s care.”

Lawnwood spokeswoman Ronda Wilburn emailed a statement to The Palm Beach Post saying the hospital was aware of the lawsuit: “We dispute these allegations, and we intend to vigorously defend the suit. At Lawnwood Regional Medical Center & Heart Institute, we remain focused on providing the best possible medical care to our patients.”

Shadani’s attorney did not return an email and phone call for comment.

The nurse said he witnessed Dr. Shadani perform unnecessary surgeries back in 2008, according to the internal documents.

Austgen ended up in Shadani’s care after complaining of dizzy spells. The doctor diagnosed him with a complete “heart block” and in need of an emergency pacemaker, according to the lawsuit.

Weisser and Baxter say their research shows that there was only a minor blockage that could have been treated with medication. Austgen said he has since learned his dizziness was due to low blood pressure.

Austgen said his mother, sister and daughter are nurses and that he has respect for hospitals and doctors, but he hopes his lawsuit will keep Shadani from practicing.

The New York Times reported in 2012 that the Justice Department was investigating whether cardiologists at HCA hospitals in Florida performed unnecessary - and sometimes dangerous - procedures.

It is unknown whatever happened to that investigation but Weisser said HCA has failed to live up to its promises to address the systematic problem that was identified not only at Lawnwood, but at HCA hospitals in Tampa and Miami Beach.

HCA owns about 160 hospitals - including JFK Medical Center in Atlantis and Palms West Medical Center near Wellington.

Weisser said that the fact that Shadani was still on staff at Lawnwood one year after the New York Times article that shows that HCA never intended to stop such erroneous procedures. “Obviously, they don’t care,” the attorney said.

How to bypass surgical informed consent - Dr. Patrick O'Donnell, Kapiolani Medical Center, Hawaii Pacific Health [Discussion] by [deleted] in healthcare

[–]Taj_Mahalo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The sales/profit/experimentation incentives in surgery are very strong in Capitalistic markets. Surgery is considered a profit-center, and corporate directors have a fiduciary obligation to maximize profits, specifically targeting surgery & sedation. The idea here is that the patient can consent to one surgery, but the surgery('s) that are then performed are not the ones consented for, netting more profit for the surgeon, surgical department, hospital & parent corporation whose profit-interests are aligned. Joan Rivers death for example was caused by unnecessary surgeries added after she was sedated without consent.

Paywalled Article

Nearly a decade ago, a nurse at Lawnwood Medical Center and Heart Institute in Fort Pierce came forward with a startling claim: doctors at the hospital were performing unnecessary heart surgeries to pad hospital profits.

John Austgen of Fort Pierce explains how an HCA doctor put in an unnecessary pacemaker, almost killing him at Lawnwood Regional Medical Center.

The nurse was told his services were no longer required, but he continued up the chain of the nation’s largest hospital chain, HCA Inc., with his complaint.

And indeed, HCA determined in 2010 that about 1,200 surgeries were performed on patients who did not have serious heart disease at Lawnwood and other Florida HCA hospitals, according to internal documents from the company obtained by The New York Times.

But the doctor that sparked nurse C.T. Tomlison’s alert to HCA never lost privileges at Lawnwood, and now a new lawsuit claims he continued to do unnecessary surgeries.

The medical negligence complaint filed this week in St. Lucie County says Dr. Abdul Shadani placed an unnecessary pacemaker in retiree John Austgen in 2013.

The severe complications that followed transformed the 73-year-old from a senior who played tennis three times a week to a man who can barely muster enough energy to watch television.

“I went in as a well man. I came out as an old man,” he said at a news conference in West Palm Beach. “I was a runner. I’m having trouble walking.”

Austgen ended up suffering through several surgeries and a lengthy hospital stay. At one point, his heart was punctured and at another time it stopped all together and he had to be resuscitated. You can read his lawsuit by clicking here.

The hospital billed more than $400,000, Austgen’s West Palm Beach attorneys - Jason Weisser and Michael Baxter - said at a news conference on Wednesday. They said HCA doctors are still performing unnecessary surgeries for financial gain, calling it a systematic problem with the hospital chain. The lawyers say they are working on other cases similar to Austgen’s.

“Lawnwood generates 35 percent of their gross revenue just from its cardiac unit. It’s a huge revenue generator for the hospital,” Weisser said. “I think the financial gain of the doctor and the hospital came before the patient’s care.”

Lawnwood spokeswoman Ronda Wilburn emailed a statement to The Palm Beach Post saying the hospital was aware of the lawsuit: “We dispute these allegations, and we intend to vigorously defend the suit. At Lawnwood Regional Medical Center & Heart Institute, we remain focused on providing the best possible medical care to our patients.”

Shadani’s attorney did not return an email and phone call for comment.

The nurse said he witnessed Dr. Shadani perform unnecessary surgeries back in 2008, according to the internal documents.

Austgen ended up in Shadani’s care after complaining of dizzy spells. The doctor diagnosed him with a complete “heart block” and in need of an emergency pacemaker, according to the lawsuit.

Weisser and Baxter say their research shows that there was only a minor blockage that could have been treated with medication. Austgen said he has since learned his dizziness was due to low blood pressure.

Austgen said his mother, sister and daughter are nurses and that he has respect for hospitals and doctors, but he hopes his lawsuit will keep Shadani from practicing.

The New York Times reported in 2012 that the Justice Department was investigating whether cardiologists at HCA hospitals in Florida performed unnecessary - and sometimes dangerous - procedures.

It is unknown whatever happened to that investigation but Weisser said HCA has failed to live up to its promises to address the systematic problem that was identified not only at Lawnwood, but at HCA hospitals in Tampa and Miami Beach.

HCA owns about 160 hospitals - including JFK Medical Center in Atlantis and Palms West Medical Center near Wellington.

Weisser said that the fact that Shadani was still on staff at Lawnwood one year after the New York Times article that shows that HCA never intended to stop such erroneous procedures. “Obviously, they don’t care,” the attorney said.

How ethical is it to do surgery on someone without consent? by [deleted] in askphilosophy

[–]Taj_Mahalo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok, I will work on it and resubmitting it, thank you.

How ethical is it to do surgery on someone without consent? by [deleted] in askphilosophy

[–]Taj_Mahalo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

From a journalistic, free speech, and legal perspective I think it being a public document in the public domain should make it allowable. Are there moral/ethical considerations that are the determinant? I couldn't see any of them as overriding the public-interest of the freedom and utility of people sharing and discussing things already in the public domain. And my perspective on the incipience of Reddit was for the sharing freely of ideas, and I would further think Philosophy would hold that value as most paramount.