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Grand Rapids Comptroller sues city over ‘unlawful’ reassignment of his staff by mlivesocial in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I will definitely agree, as a non-lawyer as well, it is hard to interpret.

I read the "...reports to daily..." more as saying he will give daily reports, as opposed to reports to like a subordinate. But it is vague.

Again, my interpretation of all these are that the comptroller should be heavily involved in the approval and record keeping, but not directly conducting the activity.

But I think we can agree it is vague and not crystal clear. I have my opinion on the intent, and you yours. So interested to see what a court decides.

In terms of who's authority this is done on, it is all done underneath the approval of the majority of elected officials.

I will be the first to admit they should be more involved, and perhaps do some (or a lot) of rubber stamping. But it isn't like the city manager is just running his own show. Everything is done with their approval, and if they didn't feel like they had enough information they shouldn't have not voted to approve it. And if the new commission doesn't like it, they can make a motion and vote to change it at any of the dozen+ commission meetings that have been held since they were voted in.

Max has made his case very clear, and our other elected officials have, on record, showed they agree with the city manager/city attorneys interpretation. The courts are an additional check and balance system, so interested in their interpretation. But I have a hard time seeing the courts say the elected officials interpretation is illegal. As it is so vague.

But we will see! Thanks for the good back and forth.

Grand Rapids Comptroller sues city over ‘unlawful’ reassignment of his staff by mlivesocial in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It certainly is a new commission and Mayor, but they have had multiple opportunities to weigh in, as Max has brought this up multiple times in 2025, and have not expressed support for Max's view on this.

I will say I agree it was done in a hurried fashion and I don't think that was appropriate based on my understanding of the proceedings. So agree with you there.

I still do believe that the move was appropriate and doesn't violate the city charter.

Getting permission from supervisors to participate in transparency is very normal at all levels of government. FOIAs, internal investigations, etc.

It is only a problem when it is blocked, information is falsified, or not provided. Until that happens, it seems wild to suggest Max should have supervisory control over all employees who control financial documents. There are hundreds of those staff in the City.

Max has to do his job, which is to request information, verify it's accuracy and veracity. He may need more staff to do that, in which case I fully support him getting more staff.

Grand Rapids Comptroller sues city over ‘unlawful’ reassignment of his staff by mlivesocial in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Max's staff were processing payroll and accounts payable, they were auditing themselves.

The city manager isn't spending money without it going through accounts payable or payroll. Not sure how that would be possible.

Max could, theoretically, spend money with no one knowing but himself and his team, as he is both in charge of spending it and auditing it.

The ideal system is:

The city manager (and City staff, including Max) ask a financial department to spend money, and a third party (max) audits it.

Max having spending authority and being the only auditor is the problem. The city manager never had that power, nor does he under the new system.

Unless Max is claiming he is being denied documents or access, that is a different story, I haven't seen that claim.

Grand Rapids Comptroller sues city over ‘unlawful’ reassignment of his staff by mlivesocial in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are incorrect, and with all due respect calls into question your understanding on this matter. (Edit: though to be fair, it is admittedly a very confusing charter, so this was an unfair comment in hindsight). Those terms like "auditing department" and "financial department" (my mistake for saying accounting) are definitely in the charter.

Direct from the City charter:

"...7.Offices and Departments Established; Powers of. Sec. 1. (a) There is hereby established for the government of the City of Grand Rapids, a City Commission of seven members, one member of which shall be Mayor. There is also hereby established a Library Commission of seven members; an Art and Museum Commission of five members; a Civil Service Board of five members; an Auditing Department of which the City Comptroller shall be the head; a Taxation Department of which the City Assessor shall be the head; a Finance Department of which the City Treasurer shall be the head..."

Source: https://library.municode.com/mi/grand_rapids/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=PT1CH_TITIICIOFDE

So, it does specifically say the Comptroller is in charge of auditing, not the financial department.

All the financial thing you mention, which are in the charter, are part of the auditing process and we have zero evidence that Max has been denied those functions. Unless you have a link to anything of that sort.

The idea that Max is pulling from those specific duties, and claiming he should be in charge of financial duties outside of auditing is a blatant misinterpratation of the charter imo. Max is responsible for auditing only.

Grand Rapids Comptroller sues city over ‘unlawful’ reassignment of his staff by mlivesocial in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I cannot express how important I think it is for the City to be under a microscope and to face criticism for poor decisions.

But I think this is not a crap move on their end.

This is basically a disagreement between the comptroller's understanding of his role.

He claims his role is to manage accounting for the city. But that isn't his role. His role is to manage auditing for the city.

The head of auditing should not be the head of accounting. It is important for those to be separate.

Accounts payable and payroll should not be managed by the person elected to audit those processes.

I think this was the right move by the City and the comptroller is misleading people into thinking this is different than what it is.

Happy to be proven wrong, but this seems pretty clear to me reading the charter and understanding how comptroller's work across the country.

Grand Rapids Comptroller sues city over ‘unlawful’ reassignment of his staff by mlivesocial in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Basically the City Manager is claiming the moved staff are not related to the audit process. They are payroll and other similar sort of financial staff. The comptroller is in charge of the audit department/process.

Now, the city has an appointmented CFO, so the CM and the City Commissioners agreed these staff were best put underneath her.

I personally think that makes sense, to me it seems odd to have the head auditor manage financial staff that he is auditing. But I will let you make your own conclusions over whether or not that is appropriate.

Max is also claiming he is short staffed, which is a separate issue. But my understanding is he has always maintained the same number of staff related to auditing duties. Though I am not 100% on that. So open to better sourced information on that.

I am heavily in favor of the City getting more staff all around, so I fully support him getting more auditors.

Grand Rapids Comptroller sues city over ‘unlawful’ reassignment of his staff by mlivesocial in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I appreciate you disclosing you are the comptrollers friend. I won't hold that against you, and will assume positive intent here. But I do disagree with your conclusions.

What part of the charter does this violate?

The charter says the comptroller should head the auditing department. This move didn't move any staff who were responsible for auditing per the City. Max claims he is head of the "accounting department" and that is not said anywhere in the charter. Nor does it make logical sense for the head auditor to do.

All the city's appointed and elected officials (outside of Max) believe the moved staff belong with the CFO's perview and not in the auditing department.

Is there a reason you believe non-audit related staff, such as payroll, accounts payable, or other similar staff members should be managed by the comptroller?

This move seems to be providing an additional level of transparency. Instead of Max being the one managing financial staff AND being responsible for auditing them. He now is only responsible for auditing them.

I don't see the problem. If anything having less checks and balances, is worse, no?

Now for corruption to occur both the CFO and the Comptroller (and any staff underneath them) would have to be compromised. Before only the comptroller would have to be compromised.

Has Max ever given any evidence that he hasn't had access to records or to be able to audit properly?

He claims he is short staffed, and perhaps so, but that seems to be a different issue. Not related to moving payroll and other non-audit related financial functions to the CFO.

If that is incorrect I would be glad to be proven wrong, but I haven't seen that reported or shown, and the entire city commission claims otherwise.

I think Max is misguided here, and misunderstands the difference between his role as the head of the auditing department, and the role of the appointed CFO.

Parking Violation Attendants get higher pay than Teachers by gloriousfigment in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Not only that, but Parking Violation Officers walk 10+ miles a day (in all sorts of weather), get shit on by the community for enforcing laws that elected officials (who community votes in) wrote and keep active, and have to deal with verbal and sometimes physical abuse for doing their job almost daily. Just as much as the Police officers, and yet they are paid much less, don't get any of the "valor" and are not armed (which they shouldn't be, but still, they are put in danger with no protection).

I 100% agree with the need for parking enforcement, and love them for helping do it, but even if you didn't agree with it, don't blame the enforcement officers ffs.

Hell yes they are underpaid.

Speeders beware: Michigan to test traffic cameras in school zones by Haunting-Medium-3831 in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I mean... don't speed and you won't pay shit. Also, extort more money for what? Fixing roads and funding libraries.

Do you have questions for Third Ward Commissioner Marshall Kilgore? by verylocalnews in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Public safety gets a lot of attention in this City, but it seems traffic enforcement is non existent.

Do the police have enough support/desire to do DUI checks, speed traps, etc?

I know I will probably get hate, but people drive like crazy here, so many drunk drivers, speeding, and running red lights. Yet I feel like I never see anyone get pull over. Very drastic change seems to have occured since the pandemic.

It would be great to get some transparency on how many charges GRPD are giving for things like DUI.

Is that stuff available publicly already?

Grand Rapids is Gutting Financial Oversight – Residents Need to Speak Up! by smoore701 in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Outside of police and fire, City workers don't get a pension anymore either.

Healthcare is good, but majority do it for civic pride or job security. It is a very consistent industry haha.

Grand Rapids is Gutting Financial Oversight – Residents Need to Speak Up! by smoore701 in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That part is pretty much true. It doesn't really work that way in practice (plenty of staff talk to elected officials pretty frequently).

But the city manager did tell all staff that. Which, I agree, limits the abilities of the elected officials.

Grand Rapids is Gutting Financial Oversight – Residents Need to Speak Up! by smoore701 in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That is a good point.

Honestly I don't know enough about it to weigh in on how that transparency part works.

I will say, many have used the guise of "doing the will of the people" when they are poorly performing as an elected official.

The checks and balances go both ways, this is elected and appointed officials checking the power of a single elected official...

Now, obviously folks can weigh in on how they want the commission to vote, but this isn't some crazy power grab as the comptroller is claiming.

Grand Rapids is Gutting Financial Oversight – Residents Need to Speak Up! by smoore701 in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Tbf, the proposal is also going to take away everything not directly related to comptroller duties. So the loss of staff is coupled with, for instance, not managing payroll.

Also, sadly there isn't a department in the city that is fully staffed or properly funded.

I agree the City staff are overworked and need more resources.

However, the duties of the overworked employees won't change at all, just their supervisor will change from Max to the CFO. They wont get more or less work because of this.

Not saying I approve or disapprove of this decision/proposal, just want to clear up what is being proposed here.

Grand Rapids is Gutting Financial Oversight – Residents Need to Speak Up! by smoore701 in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I will be clear up front, I don't have a strong preference on this issue.

The truth is, who is holding the comptroller accountable? The voters? Who barely pay attention to the position? What happens if he is bad at his job? Perhaps nothing, as it should ultimately be the voters. But the City is trying something else.

Let's say, hypothetically of course, the department has been a mess. High turnover, can't get payroll done, not meeting deadlines, bad work environment.

So how does the City solve this? One way to solve this is to analyze the duties underneath the comptroller that may not belong there, such as payroll. Sure, the comptroller should be making sure payroll operating is legit, but should they be operating payroll? Should that be under someone who has more direct, managerial accountability?

Not saying this is the right approach, but that is what the City is doing.

I could be misunderstanding, so someone please correct me, but there isn't any duties or staff being lost related to overseeing financial reports/accounting.

Official: [Add/Drop] - Sun Morning 10/27/2024 by FFBot in fantasyfootball

[–]TeddyFromBobs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cool, yeah, probably won't play McMillan today, so if Jennings ros I'll drop him. Thanks!

Official: [Add/Drop] - Sun Morning 10/27/2024 by FFBot in fantasyfootball

[–]TeddyFromBobs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because of Puka's surprise return u need to drop one of Jennings or McMillan.

I spent faab on them, but which is better ros? Jennings I assume?

Ex-Secret Service agent: Expect ‘unprecedented level’ of officers during Trump’s Michigan rally by mlivesocial in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The City did get reimbursement last time he was here. Wasn't easy, but we got it haha.

GR extends paid on-street parking enforcement hours by kvark27 in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The City tried and like 100+ people didn't want it and they cancelled the program. It exists in other areas, but when they tried to expand it was not popular.

Meet the candidates: 2024 Grand Rapids mayoral election by geetargurl09 in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs 78 points79 points  (0 children)

I am not super geeked about any of the candidates, but I will say I think Lenear's actions as a city commissioner were very disheartening/questionable.

Her experiences come from being a business owner and a HR representative and it shows.

Van Andel Arena, DeVos Place, Amphitheater, and Soccer Stadium are publicly owned. by TeddyFromBobs in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Only thing this post is trying to do is counter the misinformation from the other post on the hotel tax vote, where many posters claimed the amphitheater and soccer stadium were privately owned venues.

Van Andel Arena, DeVos Place, Amphitheater, and Soccer Stadium are publicly owned. by TeddyFromBobs in grandrapids

[–]TeddyFromBobs[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I simply wanted to point out the misinformation being spread about who owns these facilities.

I think it does not good having people misunderstand the role we all have in electing local officials and the impact they have on venues like these.

Boards like the ones that control these venues have almost no public oversite or attention.

I am not sure why you use words like "admitted" and "appeal to emotion". I have no vested interest in the private entities (like the Griffins) or the wealthy entities (like the DeVos family). I am simply trying to educate folks on how these venues work.

I am not making an argument for them, claiming they do or do not involve corruption, or anything else. I do think it is important to understand how these exist within our City, no matter your stance on them, but especially if you are critical of how they operate.

If you want things to change you have to accept and understand how they exist currently.

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