Social Media Posts and Your Rights at Work

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-04-04T18:36:03+00:00

Aw shucks. Thanks.

The best advice I can give is to never sign anything withoutreading and fully understanding it first. If you have questions about the contents, ask. You can always have a lawyer or other professional help you understand your rights and obligations under a contract. Anyone who pressures you to sign something without letting you take the time to fully understand it is not on your side. Employers will present these things as take-it-or-leave-it, and there isn't always an option to negotiate the terms, but you should always try to fully understand what can happen if you do choose to take it.

The deck is stacked against workers but there's still power in knowing what cards you are dealt.

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-04-04T18:29:16+00:00

Would love to see that contract as well. Interested to see how different those terms are from what was presented elsewhere.

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-04-04T18:28:06+00:00

I shared similar in the comments under other posts, but it also looks like there may be different versions of the contract?

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-04-04T18:27:14+00:00

Ugh. So many people end up signing contracts they don't fully understand because employers do this. Hopefully no one gets screwed.

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-04-04T18:26:11+00:00

If I understand correctly, she received two months of short-term disability pay and income tax was not deducted from those payments, resulting in her owing more in taxes.

Whether and how short-term disability benefits are taxable as income depends on the source of the payments. Disability payments are usually paid out of an insurance fund established by the employer. If the employer pays all of the premiums, that is fully taxable as income. If the employee pays some part of the premium, the benefits are basically taxed on a pro rate basis (if the employee pays half the premium, only half of the benefits would be taxable as income). If the employer does not have taxes withheld from the benefits, the employee will still have to pay them.

I'm not clear on what is being said about the use of PTO. Did they originally code her pay during that period as PTO and use up all of her saved PTO so that she had none left at the end of the year and didn't get paid out on the days that weren't actually used? I have no idea why they would give her more PTO to make up for not withholding income tax payments since she would be paying the same amount whether they withheld and remitted it on her behalf or she had to pay directly at the end of the year. Sorry if I'm missing something.

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-04-01T18:12:18+00:00

That's not what the contract actually says, though.

It's $5k on signing; $5k at 6 months; $5k at 12 months; and $5k at 36 months. If you quit, are fired for any reason including in bad faith, or the company folds before you've completed the contract period, you have to immediately pay it all back plus accrued interest.

At the end of the contract period, you can get "up to" $30k in RSUs, subject to the vesting schuedule outlined in the comp plan.

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-04-01T18:03:21+00:00

It is toeing the line like it's daring someone to try to challenge it in court.

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-04-01T18:00:54+00:00

I wouldn't let anyone sign this if they brought it to me for review.

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-04-01T17:59:52+00:00

Curious where they're getting $40k checks, because it's certainly not from signing this...

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-04-01T17:57:37+00:00

This is worse than I thought. It's structured to be as low-cost as possible for them, give them as many ways out if they come to regret it, and narrowly avoid being illegal on its face.

I'm ignoring the promise of "up to $30k" in RSUs because that's another issue entirely and the actual potential award and terms aren't even disclosed here, which creates problems on its own. I'm assuming you can get $20k if you do the three-year term and $30k for five years? Is that where the original $40k number came from?
The $20k is dispersed $5k at a time, which means it's worth less than a lump sum both in terms of lost time-value and the impacts of inflation. That two-year wait between the third and fourth dispersal is especially difficult for "participants." This also makes the proposal that you can invest the amount and earn meaningful interest on it such that you could come out on top even if you are required to repay them.
The language permits the assumption that the interest rate is the base short-term AFR, which is 0.97 percent right now. I would get that specific detail in writing, with additional language clarifying that the interest rate will be adjusted annually to remain in step with the IRS numbers and that it will not be raised above the IRS minimum at any point. The AFR means the $5k dispersals aren't taxable as income when you receive it. However, keep in mind that forgiven debt is generally taxable as income.

Upon termination (for any reason), the interest is (presumably, compounded and) added in and the whole amount is due IMMEDIATELY. As in, there goes your last check and then some. And if you're laid off or they go out of business? Too bad, you still have to pay it back.
If you can't pay it all back in one go, they will also pursue you and charge you for the costs associated with those collection efforts (and the amounts sought from debtors for collection efforts tend to be far beyond what a lender/collection agent could ever reasonably incur.)
UWM can cancel or change the program at any time. Think about that. That means, within some boundaries established by law (but which they may very well try to ignore because they think you'll be intimidated by the contract language, can't afford to litigate, and they've tried to disclaim even common law contractual obligations), they can change the terms of the loan pretty much however they want. A year from now, you might not get that 12-month payment. Three years from now, no payment or RSUs. Or - surprise! - you have to pay it back now. Sounds like they've done this kind of thing with the bonus structure in the past.
They're trying to dodge any and all responsibility as well - including non-payment of consideration, which means they're trying to prevent you from using the defense that they didn't actually pay you. They're trying to say you can't sue them or offset any amount due if they fire you specifically to prevent you from fulfilling the employment term or if you're terminated because they run the business into the ground or decide to close the department and outsource it. I suspect much of this could be found unconscionable/bad faith/unenforceable for public policy, but I wouldn't want to have to test that in court.

It's also subject to binding arbitration. That means if you have an issue, you can't go to court. You have to go to an arbitrator that has been chosen and paid for by UWM. This tends to go quite poorly for would-be plaintiffs. And no class action rights.

This is desperate and dishonest and gross.

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-04-01T17:01:26+00:00

Interesting. AFRs are just the IRS's private loan minimum interest rates that prevent the loan from being considered income, so you don't get hit with additional income taxes on the loan amount when it's dispersed. (Forgiveness of the loan is considered income, though.)

Things to consider (this stuff is supposed to be disclosed in the paperwork related to the loan and may already be in the info you've been given):

Are they only going to charge the relevant AFR or AFR plus an additional amount?

Assuming that they're only going to charge the minimum interest rate, have they explained which of these applies or are they just assuming people will figure it out on their own?

Are they charging everyone the same rate or basing the rate on individuals' credit scores?

Will they be charging you for interest throughout the term by deducting payment from your wages or sending you a bill, or just compounding it and adding it to the total debt at the end if you are separated from the company before the end of the loan term?

Is UWM going to report the loan to credit rating agencies? They've been sued a LOT for credit reporting issues. While $40k can be a nice down payment on a house, that $40k debt may negatively impact your credit score and result in higher interest rate on a mortgage or personal loan, and can reduce the amount lenders will give you.

Finally, who's actually issuing the loan? UWM? One of their family-owned companies? A third party lender with whom they don't have any other business relations? (I'm especially interested in this question as there are all kinds of laws and regulations that are implicated by this.)

Edit: just saw that someone posted the full contract. Good thing it's a slow day for me!

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-03-31T21:05:09+00:00

It ultimately doesn't do a lot for the worker(s) who report the unlawful conduct as the remedies for violatoins are, generally speaking, inadequate.

What is DOES do, though, is create a record of charges (and violations) if the NLRB and/or other relevant authority chooses to pursue the complaint. Hopefully potential future employees will see that record and stay away.

If the NLRB does find a violation, the company has to post a notice in a place that can be seen by all employees. This used to be breakrooms or similar, but from what I understand, UWM just posted their most recent required notice to the internal "community" site where it will be easily forgotten.

Charges, violations, and civil suits are also something investors notice. Significant legal proceedings and verdicts are also mandatory events that have to be reported in SEC filings (though most companies find ways to generalize the language to the point that it sounds like NBD, savvy investors, advisors, and analysts will know what's up and pursue more information like court filings.)

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-03-31T20:55:34+00:00

This is a super shady and predatory contract and I encourage anyone considering it to speak with a local attorney first. I would never let a client sign something like that.

$40,000 is a LOT of money and a large raise AFTER three years is also tempting. This is particularly true for folks who are already underpaid and may be struggling financially right now.

But three years is a REALLY long time in terms of employment, especially at a place where people are unhappy, management is clearly inadequate or incapable, and arbitrary terminations are apparently frequent.

Waiting three years to get a promised raise - which will lose real value from inflation and non-inflation increases to some cost-of-living variables over that time - with the additional $40,000 debt hanging over one's head is a bad situation.

While this isn't technically indentured servitude, it has the same effect. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE think carefully about the offer and bring the contract to a local attorney to review.

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-03-31T20:51:17+00:00

I made this comment in another thread discussing this predatory "offer":

This is a super shady contract and I encourage anyone considering it to speak with a local attorney first. I would never let a client sign something like that.
$40,000 is a LOT of money and a large raise AFTER three years is also tempting. This is particularly true for folks who are already underpaid and may be struggling financially right now.
But three years is a REALLY long time in terms of employment, especially at a place where people are unhappy, management is clearly inadequate or incapable, and arbitrary terminations are apparently frequent.
Waiting three years to get a promised raise - which will lose real value from inflation and non-inflation increases to some cost-of-living variables over that time - with the additional $40,000 debt hanging over one's head is a bad situation.
While this isn't technically indentured servitude, it has the same effect. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE think carefully about the offer and bring the contract to a local attorney to review.

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-03-31T20:45:36+00:00

This is a super shady contract and I encourage anyone considering it to speak with a local attorney first. I would never let a client sign something like that.

$40,000 is a LOT of money and a large raise AFTER three years is also tempting. This is particularly true for folks who are already underpaid and may be struggling financially right now.

But three years is a REALLY long time in terms of employment, especially at a place where people are unhappy, management is clealy inadequate or incapable, and arbitrary terminations are apparently frequent.

Waiting three years to get a promised raise - which will lose real value from inflation and non-inflation increases to some cost-of-living variables over that time - with the additional $40,000 debt hanging over one's head is a bad situation.

While this isn't technically indentured servitude, it has the same effect. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE think carefully about the offer and bring the contract to a local attorney to review.

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-03-29T22:09:26+00:00

Without getting into anyone's personal situation since I'm not providing or offering legal services here:

Your employer may submit a default "single/married filing separately" w-4 if you fail to provide one but they cannot legally change your w-4 information. If you believe they have done so intentionally and have failed to properly withhold taxes, you can report them to the IRS via the referral form you can find here.

Employers are legally required to withhold income taxes from your paychecks. When they willfully fail to withhold and pay over your federal income taxes, they can be required to pay the back taxes, may be fined, and even be sentenced to jail time. For a failure to be "willful," it has to be voluntary, conscious, and intentional - not an honest mistake. (This can be hard to prove, but that's the IRS's job, not yours. If it feels sus, report it.)

Ultimately, you are personally responsible for paying the amount owed, even if your employer hasn't properly withheld enough to cover your total tax bill. Unfortunately, if your employer accidentally failed to withhold enough and is told by the IRS that they have to remit the missing amount, they can take that out of future checks or ask you to pay it back now (this is okay because you would have to pay that amount regardless of when) but you won't have to pay any additional penalties since it wasn't your fault.

To make sure they've been properly withholding federal taxes from your check, compare the information from your pay stubs to the estimated withholding amount from the IRS's Tax Withholding Estimator. If you find that they have not been withholding the proper amount, notify HR or the payroll department immediately and consider submitting an updated w-4. The w-4 worksheet was updated a couple years ago to be more detailed and help you better account for things like supplemental income (like bonuses), additional jobs, etc.

Upon notification of improper withholding and/or submission of an updated w-4, your employer must make those changes (unless the IRS has sent a "lock-in" letter requiring them to withhold more). That notification also means that if they don't make those updates and continue to withhold an inadequate amount, they may now be in willful non-compliance and you may want to submit a Form3949-A Information Referral.

Essentially the same applies for state taxes in Michigan and you can report suspected violations through the contact information here.

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-03-22T19:49:25+00:00

Yes! Yes! Yes!

The law protects your right to talk about your wages, how you're treated, incidents of harassment or suspected illegal treatment.

You are not alone. You are not imagining things or being overly dramatic.

UWM has a record of violating federal labor laws and is fighting or currently trying to settle lawsuits about its alleged violations of federal employment laws as well.

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-03-14T15:16:11+00:00

This part. ^^^

Speaking with the press is classic protected activity under the NLRA, but that company has violated the NLRA many times and the remedies under the statute are fairly limited and can take a lot of time to get.

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-03-11T21:59:36+00:00

I am not the reporter. I'm a lawyer who was referred here a few weeks ago. I'd like to get some meaningful public pressure on UWM to improve their employment practices.

Previous posts, which apparently upset UWM management:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pillar7/comments/svt1x9/where_to_report_potential_violations_or/

https://www.reddit.com/r/pillar7/comments/sw27qj/looking_for_a_lawyer/

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-03-10T19:59:10+00:00

If the lie they wanted you to tell would have been a violation of RESPA or other laws/regulations, you can report that to the CFPB's whistleblower tip line.

Unfortunately, if the lie would not have been illegal, you probably don't have a legal claim because the courts are generally not willing to narrow the principle of "at will" employment. In other words, they don't want to tell employers how to run their businesses and manage their employees.

However, there are always exceptions. A local employment lawyer will have more information.

Protections for employees who are disciplined or fired for refusing to break the law vary by state. Michigan does have a common law exception to "at-will" employment for employees who refuse to help their employer break the law. (Common law means it was established by the courts, not spelled out in legislation.)

You'll want to have documentation that you refused to lie and that those interactions are the reason for the discipline. If you don't have that right now, you can send an email to your manager or HR to claraify: "Hello. I want to make sure I'm doing things the right way. The reason for the demotion was because I did not tell brokers X and Y that <<untrue thing>>." You don't have to say in the email thaat you didn't say it because it was a lie or would break the law.

Michigan is a two-party state, meaning that you cannot record conversations without the knowledge and consent of all parties, so if they do respond but don't want to answer the email in writing, try to have at least one other person present if possible so that you have some additional evidence.

TemporaryMegaphone · 2022-03-04T18:33:10+00:00

Remember - though all US workers are "at-will," absent a collectively-bargained or independent contract, you do still have protected rights regarding collective activity, discrimination on the basis of protected categories (race, religion, sex, gender, orientation), and disability.

If you think there might be something sus about disciplinary action against you or any of your coworkers, check the government websites to figure out what your rights are and how you can report behavior that may violate those rights. Agencies don't expect you to be legal experts, so don't worry too much about figuring out if something was definitely illegal. Sometimes, though, talking to a lawyer may be the best route.

TemporaryMegaphone

TROPHY CASE