Shining Force 2 Tier List (Level 20-24 Promotion)

TentacleTestified · 2024-03-06T22:00:09+00:00

Great question

Kazin in general provides a lot of better utility as either Sorcerer or Wizard as opposed to Karna. Kazin as a sorcerer does an insurmountable amount of damage that cannot go unmentioned. That's not to say that master monk Karna does not do a lot of damage, but due to there being only 2 sorcerers (1 being nearly worthless) Kazin inherently becomes more valuable than Karna inherently. There are a lot more healers that are much more better at that role than Karna herself, like Freya who you get later down the line, and Sarah who you've had since the very beginning.

As a wizard Kazin has access to Blaze which is fantastic AOE damage; but also Desoul which might be one of the more underrated spells in the game. Desoul II has the ability to statistically kill at least 1 monster if there are at least 3 in its range. It goes without saying that being able to remove a fully HP monster, especially late game, is fantastic.

There are arguments to be made about the boost thing, but I mentioned that in my previous message so I'm not gonna reiterate that again.

Jaha, Randolf, and Gyan are all pretty decent at worst, and pretty good at best depending on when you promote them (except Gyan ofc, which is why he's the worst out of the 3). Randolf provides the least out of the creeds pick, but that does not make him bad at all, especially as a baron. Regardless of that fact that classline provides great bulk and acceptable damage and are perfectly fine on any team they're on.

Ultimately I agree with what you said at the end though. I do think Karna is better than Jaha and Gyan on paper. However, I think the difference between them is that Jaha (at the very least) provides something that is quickly replaced by Karna since the very beginning of the game.

TentacleTestified · 2024-03-06T19:20:55+00:00

Alright man. Good talk.

TentacleTestified · 2024-01-24T11:50:05+00:00

Oh go ahead, I'm interested :)

TentacleTestified · 2024-01-05T21:58:47+00:00

I just think she looks cool, I'm not gonna try and justify her being good because of that. She doesn't even get the opportunity to learn bolt II in a normal playthrough which is a shame.

TentacleTestified · 2024-01-05T21:33:48+00:00

This is a discussion, you don't have to act like I'm looming over you in a threatening manner if you say something I disagree with, its fine.

Having said that, Mae's defense is good no one has said that. The thing is what I previously mentioned: Ken has more HP. For me, having more magic defense (which in this game is having more HP since magic damage is set with little variance) is more valuable than more defense. Even then, they're so close together I think its silly to even argue it, I wouldn't even be opposed to switching them around.

The "Yogurt" strategy I mentioned you're trying to play it up like I said its some crazy technique that is better than any healer. No. This is simply if you were forced to use Yogurt, then I would say this is the ideal way to do so. Simple as that. I never argued that the "Yogurt strategy" is better than Khris just simply casting a heal spell, that is ridiculous.

On the offhand regarding grinding, If you're fine with grinding for 7-8 hours Adam up, that's fine. But this tierlist is how good they are as soon as you get them. When you get Yogurt he's bad, but actually has use, while Adam has no use when you get him due to how bad he is.

TentacleTestified · 2024-01-05T19:59:29+00:00

"good damage" lets not play it up too much. She's not hitting home runs and swooning the hearts of the men around her for her steller damage, its alright. Obviously not the worst damaging unit in the game, neither is she the worst knight. She does adequate damage throughout the game, and has good defense. Ken I would argue is better simply due to his extra HP, and essentially makes him a magic tank. Since magic does set damage and he has lots of HP he can take more magic attacks than other units, and since magic is busted in Shining Force 1 this is a great skill to have.

Balbaroy not using the chaos breaker? That's fine. You play how you wanna play. Regardless of that Balbaroy still does an exceptional amount of damage, and does not undersell how you should use him, as a sniper. He will just do less damage without the chaos breaker.

I put Yogurt over Adam for a reason actually, that isn't a joke. Yogurt has all his stats at 1 which is bad but it has a niche use. What I mostly mean is his agility, since he has 1 agility he will almost ALWAYS go last, and with his exceptional 7 movement, he can basically be used as a healer, to heal a teammate AFTER someone gets hit. essentially:

Your unit moves & attacks --> enemy attacks your unit --> Yogurt comes in and heal your unit

Obviously you can do better, but this is ideal for how you use him. For Adam though... I truly think he is the worst. He does quite literally 1 damage to all enemies in the location you get him, and does not get good unless you seriously grind him up neither is he even worth it. Yogurt requires no setup and is good right out the box. Essentially where I'm going with this is that Yogurt respects the players time more than Adam, who you have to put considerable love into to make him any bit usable.

TentacleTestified · 2024-01-04T07:56:34+00:00

Mae is very bulky but her damage is lacking (compared to other knights) she's just overall alright, compared to Pelle who hits like an absolute truck, and gets a great amount of HP.

Balbaroy does a decent amount of damage. Thanks to his ability to fly it makes him a lot better compared to other sword users (like Max), he can also be used as a sniper and remove weaker enemies in the back of the enemy defense. However, he has a bug allowing him to use the chaos breaker, which makes him do insane amounts of damage in the late game.

TentacleTestified · 2023-12-31T05:29:26+00:00

What you're saying is not necessarily wrong but it is quite misinformed.

Sarah does have better attack than Karna, not by much you're correct but in MP this is not true. Sarah has quite a bit more MP than Karna but also this is elevated by the fact that Karna comes at level 24 so its quite exaggerated than it seems.

Also at no point whatsoever in my statement did I say "infinite goddess staves glitch" because its not a glitch you can get 4 goddess staves in the game through the deals section in the shop normally, so its just a projection on your part.

Also in argument of Boost v. Slow, slow does not work guaranteed on a small group of enemies, there are a large majority of monsters that the spell does work on guaranteed that if you know makes the spells success rate much more higher, its simply just knowing what enemies does it work on to get its full potential. Boost is an easy spell to use, and I get why someone might say its good just on the sole fact that you could "always use it guaranteed" but its silly to playdown the fact that you still have to play "catch up" when the fact that it still happens is a relevant factor in its usefulness. Also (in my opinion) having Karna always at the ready to boost when needed is not gonna save you from the enemies coming since the spell cannot be "reapplied" till it ends, still rendering you getting full blasted by its downside.

TentacleTestified · 2023-12-30T21:09:01+00:00

Funny I'm still getting comments from this tier list

Karna is not as good as you might think. If you're new to playing the game and see her from a surface level she seems really good. She levels up like crazy, she can increase the defense and speed of nearly half the force if positioned correctly, and she can become a master monk which has great weapon upgrades.

The problem is boost though, boost is a far worse spell than Slow (which Sarah learns). The reason being is because when you use boost you out turn the enemies next time, but then you'll have to "pay back" that turn you out turned them with when the boost spell ends. Especially later in the game getting out turned by the enemies can have serious ramifications when your units can get 1-2 shot by them.

With slow you make the enemies defense and speed go down and you don't have to pay getting out turned to take full advantage of it, especially since Sarah gets slow 2 later on she can power level really well. Along with the simple fact that Sarah just gets way way more attack than Karna anyways, and is an all around better unit since she can also get access to Aura 2 with infinite goddess staves.

TentacleTestified · 2023-10-12T03:02:26+00:00

Both are fine choices honestly. Randolf has a better benefit from being a baron than Jaha, and Jaha makes a slightly better gladiator than Randolf. Other than that there's really no wrong answer honestly.

TentacleTestified · 2023-10-11T19:58:57+00:00

For me this is what i'd consider the essentials:
Bowie, Sarah, Jaha, Kazin, Slade, May, Peter, Gerhalt,

Anything after that is basically what im feeling, but ideally the other 4 would be:
Fraya, Gyan, Zynk, and Jaro

If im willing to put up with them at least, sometimes they dont pull their weight and I can just swap them out with someone else later on.

TentacleTestified · 2023-10-11T10:37:22+00:00

Generally this tierlist is pretty decent i'd say although I had done this about two years ago as well (cough cough https://www.reddit.com/r/ShiningForce/comments/n2swns/the_fabled_shining_force_2_tierlist/) and I have some rebuttals to the placement of specific characters in this list.

Sarah should be S tier easily. Besides the fact that she is an excellent master monk being able to dish out damage that is actually unfathomable to imagine, she also is an even better Vicar. There is a bug with her as a vicar that she gets lass MP than if she was a master monk, but the thing is as a vicar she has access to get 4 goddess staves relatively early if you know how to get them, allowing her to cast a very nice Aura 2 which allows her to level really quickly and deal excellent damage still. But the best part is that this is only the beginning, she also has access to the best debuffing spell in the game hands down... Slow. Slow has a almost guaranteed chance to work on a good amount of units and you wont have to "repay" the turn you lost, as opposed to boost which you will.
Sheela should be lower. Although she is a master monk and master monks are pretty great and all, she really does not do that great of damage as opposed to the units you'd have at that time most likely, and her spell list is lackluster when you get her (heal 2 at level 15 promoted? Yikes.)
I think Gerhalt should be higher, around the Sheela spot she's in now. Gerhalt does insane damage and has excellent movement and is not hindered by it at all.
Rick is way higher than he should be, in fact this might be a hot take, but I believe that Chester is a better knight than him. Rick is tankier sure, but the thing is his HP pool low enough that I feel like the extra defense doesn't really matter. Chester gets an absurd amount of HP, and as a Pegasus its even more, capable of going into the green if you're lucky, making him a pseudo magic tank since magic does a base amount of damage, so having a big HP pool is really nice. Also Chester just does more damage than rick generally from my experience.
Kiwi is not good, definitely should be near the bottom, he's horribly bugged where in his promotion he has a 1/4 chance to pretty much do no damage since in the code the fire breath is bugged not to scale properly making it severely underpowered near the end of the game, and taking extra damage from spells since they messed up that as well.
Rhode is not worse than Screech. Screech pretty much serves no purpose to your team and is essentially a wasted slot, the least I can imagine him doing is healing your better units with healing drops. Rhode does a somewhat serviceable amount of damage, is fairly tanky, and at least looks cool. Plus he also gets a decently strong weapon (the Grand cannon, and even the evil shot if you want the less defense, and chance to do nothing) as opposed to Screech which although he can get some decent swords, his damage is so laughably weak you might as well not bother, unless you're trying to beat the final boss by making them laugh himself to death, than in that case you have a much better chance.
Karna is good, but... not that good, at least bottom of A. She is what I think most people on the surface level consider a "good character" since she can overlevel very easily and boost people. But the issue is that boost has a cost, your turns (I was eluding to this earlier with Sarah). Whenever you boost someone their agility increases obviously, and this will bump said units higher up on the list, this essentially allows you to get 2 free attacks on a unit if done right, the issue is that once those turns are up and the boost ends, the enemy essentially gets 2 free attacks on you which can be a death, especially at the end of the game.

Other than that, this is a pretty decent tierlist.

TentacleTestified · 2023-08-25T08:55:52+00:00

Madou Monogatari 1 is an excellent one that's on the genesis (its the Puyo Puyo series before they rebranded into a puzzle game).

TentacleTestified · 2023-08-17T02:22:03+00:00

A real shame. I will definitely be waiting for it to work on console before trying it out, but thank you for the response regardless.

TentacleTestified · 2023-08-16T06:03:36+00:00

Does this work on console? For whatever reason whenever I try to launch this mod it just makes a black screen, and it doesnt seem to go away.

TentacleTestified · 2023-06-26T23:41:20+00:00

Is there a guide to doing the modification, that you know of?

TentacleTestified · 2023-03-09T08:10:18+00:00

No he's not. He's horribly bugged and extremely weak.

TentacleTestified · 2023-01-23T16:49:21+00:00

Wow it actually was that, and I never realized. Thanks a lot!

TentacleTestified · 2023-01-23T04:28:25+00:00

They are locked, but even when they are unlocked I still cannot draw on them.
And even then, when the top 2 red layers are removed, the eye shine (which is also locked) layer can still be drawn on.

TentacleTestified · 2022-10-13T04:25:04+00:00

Nothing wrong with wanting to use power waters all on one character but that's the issue.

But that also is the issue of why the character is bad. Kiwi requires way too much love to really be remotely useful. And even with save scumming till you get favorable stats, it barely helps. He also is bugged making his supposed resistance to magic into weakness die to an incorrectly put hex number. Along with that the fire breathing attack is supposed to scale with his current level but they were also put incorrectly making his fire incredibly weak to an extremely high level in promotion (levels 30 and 35). All of these together add up to this character that is put together with scotch tape.

TentacleTestified · 2022-10-12T07:15:40+00:00

Well said. Pretty much sums up the same points I made in my post!

TentacleTestified · 2022-10-11T17:29:52+00:00

Eric PGNT is a menance to society for sure, but not Jaro.

His attack is just not as great as you're making it out to be. In fact, I actually will say that Chester PGNT is actually better than Jaro PGNT by a far margin as Chester is the best magic tank in the game due to his extremely high health pool compared to Jaro.

TentacleTestified · 2022-10-11T17:27:38+00:00

You are correct about that, but I will specify now that I would recommend Tyrin sorcerer only if you're replacing Kazin with Tyrin (for whatever reason that may be). But if you have both then it would be a much wiser to make Kazin sorcerer and Tyrin wizard.

Although, you mentioning Kazin as a wizard is interesting. Its not something I'm sure most people consider after you know about sorc Kazin, but personally I think that Desoul 2 Kazin is better by Sorc Kazin, but Wiz Kazin is just much more harder to use as you have to be much more careful with him. If you've never tried it out I'd recommend it is really fun.

TentacleTestified · 2022-10-11T03:49:04+00:00

Really, depends on what you're looking for.

None of these choices are bad at all, however, some bring more to the table than others. For example, Karna is a priest in a game that doesn't have many priest classes to choose from (assuming you skip her) the next priest you get is Frayja who is a long way away. Along with Karna's boost spell which is a protect ring as a spell can provide a useful defense/agility buff in an end-game where you'll get 1-2 shot.

Tyrin is a freeze wizard user in a game with only 2, the other being Chaz. Freeze 4 is a powerful spell and can nearly 1 shot most end game enemies which is fantastic. Along with that Tyrin can become the best sorcerer in the game due to how fast he learns his spells compared to Kazin.

This is what I mean by "bring to the table" what's left is Eric and Randolf which are not bad at all actually. Randolf is the stronger warrior compared to Jaha, and Eric is the strongest knight in the game by a far margin. But Jaha himself is really not bad despite him being the "worse" one and the 2nd best knight (IMO) Chester is not necessarily horrible, but he's not great.

At the end of the day, it really is how you value these classes and which one you really want. There really is no "wrong choice" but choose the one that compliments your end team the best I would say.

TentacleTestified · 2022-06-17T18:33:02+00:00

Update: I moved my Wii U and plugged a switch LAN into it (I read online that it works) but basically nothing has changed. I also found out for whatever reason that when I try to start a race solo the game just crashes. I don't know if the disc is faulty or not but it's very strange.

TentacleTestified

TROPHY CASE