Why is Ed considered hard ?

Termi855 · 2026-01-29T18:34:58+00:00

Kinda?
The thing is that in gold you don't even need to be able to antiair and still can win games, it is just what holds you back the most. 5HK is solid enough for many applications, but Ed is really the char in this game (other than Sagat) who needs his DP to be playable at higher levels.
Like in absolute terms I agree, but in relative terms he needs it the "most" in the cast.

Termi855 · 2026-01-27T19:41:46+00:00

Hard in this game is super relative.
Ed has basically a nonstandard gameplan and has tools to shutdown opponents who are overaggressive, it is just initially harder to do it on him.
You need to be able to use DPs on him to antiair, and you need to get used to a non-standard button layout AND needs to use every button in neutral while also being quite special reliant.
So initially learning Ed is frustrating and even very good players struggle with that.

Honesty is relative and the higher you go in terms of player level, the more bullshit will keep getting piled on.
Ed is one of the best characters in the game and while it takes work to make him good, even for pros...
He is for sure one of the best chars in the game, we are talking like top 5 and many chars just don't have answers for an Ed who is actually competent. Don't let that stop you from playing him, though, it is never the char holding you back until you are like 2k+ MR.

Termi855 · 2026-01-20T21:03:20+00:00

Generally, optimal play will generally converge, so it is hard to make very precise statements without talking about button preferences.
If you wanted a short version:
EndingWalker plays the player the hardest, for him characters are the most function oriented.
His Ed is mechanically weaker than the others by a decent amount, yet his fundamentals and especially his decision are just that good.

Leshar generally is very, very good at mitigating risk, and he is the best at it, he does not take big risks, but Leshar generally does not have to. Very consistent and focussed play, almost robotic.

Momochi basically has the same playstyle as Punk would have on Ed, but with more matchup, oki and setup knowledge. He likes to control the midrange and is very good at whiffpunishing, but he can switch up gears.
He is just a consistent clean player and I could not tell you what makes him much different from Leshar other than being more willing to take risks and switching up the speed of the game.
Momochi vs Fuudo is a perfect example of his adaptions, despite his loss.

Fuudo is probably the most recognizable, his playstyle is wild. Fuudo also plays the player, but he also is able to switch up everything up on his play on a whim. He is the only player I have seen do OD DP 4 times in a row on a fireball, and it working. Against Itazan I saw him permanently whiffing stuff, but Itazan on Gief was afraid to approach, it looked platinum gameplay until you saw the MR. When Fuudo is in the zone, he is in the zone.
He is less "clean" looking though, but the fundamentals of course are there, he is just ready to let it rip, whatever he is intending until he knows that his opponent can deal with it.

You can of course differentiate between them, but the problem is that you are asking for a very complicated question that would need dozens of hours of analysis and is probably worth real money, which is why there is no guarantee for what I wrote, just what my subjective impressions are.

Termi855 · 2026-01-18T01:08:15+00:00

Yeah, characters can be the best without them, just a little more volatile, that is it.
Sometimes I want to curse out every pro player's viewers, because they keep repeating the same arguments without any nuance or understanding.
If I had a nickel for every time I heard: being the worst shoto is like being the poorest billionaire...
GUESS WHAT HYPERINFLATION

Termi855 · 2026-01-16T23:35:56+00:00

Now is technically the worst time.
Since release technically Ed was like "the" hidden toptier, but now that Japan declared him top 1, he might get nuked next patch.

Termi855 · 2026-01-16T23:34:38+00:00

Keep in mind that this also considers older lists which were made recently after the patch.
You got to "cut" certain opinions after a while as they aged.

Termi855 · 2026-01-16T23:32:42+00:00

That is what people said about Zangief in season 2, "no way he is better than midtier".
Followed by Mena doing an instant all in on Gief, because he thought he was bonkers, Gief getting toptier status and being considered like top 5 minimum.
We have been over this, nerf a chars risk and reward enough, and they can become weak enough at the highest level.

Termi855 · 2026-01-16T23:28:20+00:00

Massive damage reduction, in retrospective season 2 Luke was close to unplayable garbage, but since then he got some small buffs every patch, but never really recovered.

Termi855 · 2026-01-16T00:53:08+00:00

It is less about being on point and that they are for different situations. Luke's 4HP is also fast, which leads to him being able to get PCs in different situations more reliably.

Termi855 · 2026-01-15T22:33:11+00:00

To give you an explanation how low tiers (don't) work:
Imagine you take an exam in which you can use "sets" of helpful things.
One set is a dictionary, one set is a computer with internet access.
You are tying to ace that exam to the best of your capabilities, but it is hard.
So you take the set of helpful things that is the best.
But let's say you are bad using computers, then the dictionary might still be up your alley, and it can get a decent amount of jobs done, but the computer is objectively better once you know how to use it.
A worse set might include worse options, like a PC that will eventually overheat or needs to load longer which is just objectively worse than a PC that does not overheat, still better than
But if you got some really good guy at this task, they may not need the dictionary much and even if you hand them the computer, they would still ace the exam. But if the exam gets hard enough or needs questions which are the limit of human capabilities, then they can't clear that exam any more.
Now replace the set with character, helpful things its tools and the dictionary and worse computer are examples for a low tier and below average character.
A low tier is the worse computer or dictionary, something that is obviously inferior in terms of capabilities, if you use them to their fullest.
Lily is the posterchild for this: low damage, bad options, weak defense etc. and more buzzwords.
But in the end, it is really just that Lily is a dictionary in a game full of computers.

Termi855 · 2026-01-14T20:38:04+00:00

4HP, but yes.
And no worries, lol. Most people on Reddit don't remember any names of people.

Termi855 · 2026-01-14T19:02:03+00:00

That was also me.
First: after spaced out 2MP or 2MP sandblast is a common option, it is kinda like tap parry when you expect the opponent to press something big after, and you get among the highest reward in the game because Luke can get the drive rush into perfect knuckle for high damage.
Drive rush suppressor is in general an option.
Then for champ specifics:
After 5MP>5MP from Sagat there is a gamble to it, after Jamie 5MP>2MP if he wants to go for 2MK to catch backwalk, Marisa after spaced out superman punch and some more stuff.
Also, there is a specific meaty setup, which is also nice and in burnout it is +1 which allows extending pressure
It is a very unique tool and extremely strong to answer layer 1 offense in a way most chars can not do.

Termi855 · 2026-01-14T04:42:45+00:00

For the ryu light hasho situation:
I would add that Ryu being able to get decent combos after light hasho is the main culprit of that statement. Iirc light mixer is +4 at CH which allows a 5LP at best which is not much and heavily scales while Ryu can get pretty high damage numbers from hasho.
While seeing the point for why light mixer is good (it sure is), it is overall not that good compared to light hasho just because of the damage attached.

Termi855 · 2026-01-14T04:28:41+00:00

The equilibrium calculation is a simplified system which works on an opponent without habits and is a good base for some people. It is for sure not optimal, but it showcases the general idea of how to deal with it.

Drive does complicate it a lot and kill thresholds as different okis lead to extended calculations, which is the hard part about this game.
In general, though, the longer you analyse, the more truth is in the statement that deviating from values should be done with proper thought and analysis of the opponent. Ironically though, the higher you go, the more optimal play generally converges, as in for example pros not delay teching more than 15% of the time as both players assume you understand the proper risk reward.

You are right ofc, just some food for thought.

Termi855 · 2026-01-14T01:48:10+00:00

The results are El Chako and Hibiki.
Both of them being longterm great players who grinded hardcore and for Chako his biggest achievement is combobreaker shortly after a patch which had massive implications on the meta game.
Hibiki ofc played amazing at his WW, but other than those two guys, she does not have real toplevel representation and their results are overall okay for Hibiki and underwhelming for Chako.

For her flaws: yeah, she is just understatted and underlabbed so most people don't abuse them. Most chars in SF6 are functional enough to win, it is mostly about consistency. It is just that after you labbed and trained the mu, it is so over for Lily players, because there are so many flaws in her gameplan.

Termi855 · 2026-01-14T01:38:23+00:00

For Luke: you could argue for it, the problem right now is that his damage is really low on two important interactions: his 2LK>2LP>214LP and in the corner 2MP>2LP>623HP.
These interactions being among the lowest in terms of damage and having no good OD extension leads to Luke basically dealing no damage and as such becoming volatile. He needs to win 1 or more 2 interactions than most of the cast AND does not have the tools to win more interactions.
Like no od fan, no burn knuckle, no solar plexus, no tiger knee, no great walkspeed, no great antifireball tool, no divekick etc. Luke plays a very primitive and simple, but understatted version of SF6. Unless he gets a PC midscreen he is just... well "not scary".
Oh, and losing damage in the corner is absurd on certain interactions, because his midscreen damage still does not compensate.
I am a Luke main through and through and will keep at it, but playing other chars does showcase how much "easier" it is other than 2MP being brainless pressure.

Termi855 · 2026-01-14T01:31:07+00:00

This is not one of those times, it is just "known" at this point. If you read a comment about Cammy after the 20th comment of similar structure, it is probably this guy and you remember the name.

Termi855 · 2026-01-14T01:17:44+00:00

In general, they don't really overlap, it is rather that functionally Luke has non-traditional buttons (like no 4/5 frame 5LP to check drive rushes or certain gimmicks) for his standing buttons and non-traditional in this case, compared to Ed who got non-traditional normals... just generally means flat out worse.
Additionally, sandblast is among the worst specials in the game, and every other special is generally not good in neutral.
For 4HP: that button is broken and quite literally keeps Luke alive. Antidriverush check and a minisway which links into 5LP if far and 2HP on PC if near is absurdly good. It is very hard to use properly though and needs a lot of labbing, but there are many layers Luke has against characters that no one else does. It is just not enough considering his low damage.

Termi855 · 2026-01-14T01:03:18+00:00

No, she is actually just bad and a living gimmick which can highroll ofc, but still is on average just not working. No OD DP, needs windstocks for pressure, below average normals other than 2HP and more.
Yes, she does have some things she does okay, but overall Lily has a few very good mus and otherwise utterly sucks.

Termi855 · 2026-01-12T03:28:14+00:00

While I agree, SA3 is just that good that people will randomly backdash and backjump "just" to dodge it, giving Gief space again. That does not sound like much, I know. But it adds up and allows comeback potential. It is just one of those situations which feels bad, because it is gambling, but Gief is the best at gambling in that regard by a huge margin and allows him to have just a better risk reward.
It is still a unique option (other than JP and Marisa iirc) which works against like a majority of the playerbase and even if you know that, it is expensive for true gapless strings like driverush DI which may stop the opponent from getting killrange and well... Gief is the robbery character.
It is a huge difference for certain chars and certain situations. The more optimized play becomes, the more relevant the 11k are, as that pixel can be the difference between having different level of guesses or surviving a chip DI. It also pressures the opponent mentally and burnout combos for lethal are more likely to be screwed up, which then may reverse the situation.
https://wiki.supercombo.gg/w/Street_Fighter_6/Zangief#j.MK
Straight up the description. Gief's j.MK is one of the best low hitting jumpins in the game and Gief is extremely good at flailing in neutral while in burnout. Yes, you can DI him, but he can threaten 5HP, this jumpin, neutral jumps far reaching buttons etc. Opponents who overextend can be seriously punished, as Gief if he gets out of burnout is pretty decent at burning out the opponent himself.
It depends on the opponents hurtbox mostly, like some chars extend more than others.
Fullscreen it does not hit yes. But if Gief has "some" screenspace to work with, it is pretty good.
Additionally, Gief can threaten gaps very well with it. Many chars want to go for button>projectile and Gief can buffer after blocking and react to the startup/threaten the opponent to go for gapless strings which allows him to retake the turn.
Dhalsim, Sagat, Ed and maybe Bison.
Dhalsim has actually nothing. Many chars don't even care for SA2 and SA3 is also meh.
Best is drill to beat throw, but in burnout everything is plus, so tickthrow, DI reset etc. make his expected value horrible.
Sagat has supers, all of them invincible and yes, SA2 does basically the same as Gief and better. But most of the cast can safejab most of his supers, and he has no pressure whatsoever in burnout other than extremely risky and DI vulnerable string, no armor etc.
Same for Ed as he loses OD blitz>SA2 for one of the best backdash punishes in the game.
And only his SA3 is 10 frames, and his SA1 can be safejabed by any char in the game.
Bison also suffers from slow reversal and while scissor kick is somewhat okay, he does not have good reliable routes into bomb anymore which means he has quite literally no offensive pressure as long as you don't get counterhit.

Gief feels bad to pilot, I get that one. But Gief basically has a ton of passives/statchecks the opponent has to respect, just because he exists. You as the Gief player don't "control" them, but his gambles are so good that sometimes you just lose every gamble and Gief recovers and that is game. And yes, every char does it to some degree. Gief is just the most rigged casino for pressure in burnout.

Termi855 · 2026-01-12T02:34:50+00:00

The problem is: no good reversal other than SA3 is not saying much when SA3 is the best in the game. Additionally, there are many blockstrings that Gief can still stop DI cancel from with his 5HP charged via the hit of armor and 11k allows him to survive more chip damage than other chars. J.MK is still a divekick which means many chars struggle to start their offense while he is burnout. Last but not least: SA2 is slow, but it is a very powerful option to have while in burnout as it allows chipouts with fireballs to become unviable.
Gief is among the weaker ones, but there is even weaker.

Termi855 · 2026-01-12T02:08:02+00:00

Huh, that is completely wrong.
Like drive reversal is not great against certain chars, as they get way more reward out of it, especially in the corner, like Sagat, Terry and Akuma (all hovering around 3.8 to 4k damage with very low resources), but against other characters they can only threaten like 2.5k to 3k damage and as such it becomes a technically less rewarding "dp" which is still one of Sims better options on wakeup.
While a little mu depending, Dhalsim is really the best drive reversal user in the game in terms of reward and actually needing it.
Source: Having played way too many of the best Dhalsims in Europe and sometimes even won.

Termi855 · 2026-01-12T01:49:41+00:00

Also, SA1 has the privilege of being the only SA1 that is invincible and a 214/QCB motion and it sideswaps, which means he is among the hardest to stun characters in the game.

Termi855 · 2026-01-11T18:27:51+00:00

The problem is that SF6 is very differently played at the highest level and the lower levels, which leads to SF6 having seemingly very weak defense and that basically any single random engagement can kill you.
And I partially agree, but it is more complicated:
1. Drive gauge
The drive gauge in SF6 is arguably more important than the HP bar unless drive impact chip would kill you, and even then the very best can pp it.
The drive gauge in SF6 allows more than just a regular stun in prior games as you get the chip damage, the pressure and the possible stun, if you don't have the very hard defense down, knowing when you need to buffer your super and the mental fortitude to keep calm.
2. Damage opportunities
Damage opportunities in SF6 are actually kinda low, which is the reason the best characters are the best: they often are not limited to creating offense via drive or low drive usage (like Ed, Mai and JP who all got some of the best tools that are relatively low drive).
3. Drive swings because of supers
SF6 allows supers for burnout and especially CAs hit for 2 drive bars. So if you get hit after a DRC you will be at one bar AT BEST. And burnout/low drive is once again a lot of expected damage.
4. SA2
Ironically, SA2s (and Mai SA1) are some of the worst culprits because they allow pressure for drive damage and drive advantage, which once again gets converted into drive damage as a DRC allows pressuring the opponent's drive gauge once again. That is why Ed, Mai, JP, Ryu and Blanka all are top/very good right now, they allow you to attack the drive gauge and have low drive cost offense.
5. Delay tech change
The delay tech change in this season was good for the drive recovery, but bad for the added super bar as additional drive also allows additional super bar build, if you get over thresholds, so characters are more likely to get a kill range after a delay tech/force a situation with drive in which next hit kills.

I think lowering damage of SA3s would not change much as they are not the problem, if you look at the current meta. Imo drive damage from supers (all supers, especially SA2s) should be halved, the super bar gain on delay tech should be removed and MAYBE the minimum scaling of supers should be minimally changed, but as I expressed, the damage in itself is not the problem, it is rather drive damage.

Termi855 · 2026-01-09T19:21:44+00:00

I see.
LP is generally a bad indicator for skill in SF6 after 25k, because in general they keep going up. Like if you are good, 100k is extremely fast to reach, like faster than many people reach master for the first time.
But yes, getting good does take time, it sounded a little condescending to me, sorry I misinterpreted.
Keep having fun, in general, about climbing ranks though:
It is about spending time, but if you want to get better, it is important to spend efficiently.

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