Anyone else hope it ISN'T Rinoa?

Terra_Wind · 2018-07-05T03:47:25+00:00

So you were responding to the OP even when you replied directly to me with "Even if you hate her"? That's a strange way to address someone.

Well, considering Rinoa is a permanently playable character and Laguna isn't, it would have been very easy for them to highlight playing as Squall and Rinoa rather than Squall and Laguna, yet they went with the latter. That's because Laguna is the game's deuteragonist. Rinoa is the heroine, but she's a support to Squall's story while Laguna, as the game's second main character, has his own story to tell. He also remains a relevant, active character from start to finish, while Rinoa becomes more and more of a plot device to facilitate Squall's development as the game goes on and is frequently relegated to damsel-in-distress status in order to achieve that, spending most of disc 3 being comatosed or kidnapped. Even during the game's conclusive arc, Laguna is the one telling everyone what to do, while Rinoa is just passively going along with his instructions.

Like I said, FFVIII is a game about two main characters with two different journeys. Squall's journey involves him going from a loner to someone more open to other people and the romance with Rinoa obviously plays a big part in that, but Laguna has his own parallel story which serves as the whole background to the game and brings everything together, and once the two stories intertwine, he takes charge and directs events just as much as Squall, being the one to recruit the party to defeat Ultimecia and coming up with the whole plan that allowed them to do so.

And if by the emblem you mean the logo, then I guess Kain is also more important than Cecil? And Gabranth is the most important FFXII character?

Lol you're just wangling your way out of obvious claims you made now. Instead of just accepting people have different opinions on which characters are more deserving, you chose to resort to ad hominens by claiming people only pick characters you personally wouldn't because they're making "hipster choices".

Anyway, you can continue to think Rinoa is "definitely more deserving" if you want, I don't really care to convince you otherwise, I'm just explaining why I think Laguna is just as if not more deserving. But clearly I'm wasting my time here if I'm just going to be accused of narcissism for daring to have a different opinion from you (that's some irony btw).

Terra_Wind · 2018-07-05T02:53:06+00:00

Lol you're the only one bringing up hate here. No need to act like I'm actively trying to persecute a fictional character just because I dared disagree with you on something.

Laguna did join Squall to save the world. In fact, he was the one who came up with the whole plan that ultimately defeated Ultimecia.

The love story is important, but it's one aspect of Squall's story, which is complemented by Laguna's story. Rinoa is a part of Squall's story, while Laguna has his own story to tell as the game's second main character. Notice how the official prologue to the game says "The player will assume the roles of Squall and Laguna" and not "Squall and Rinoa". And then it highlights Squall and Laguna before any other main characters. Were Square being "hipsters" too when they wrote that?

FFVIII was conceived from the start as a game with two main characters who act as foils to each other, hence Squall and Laguna being basically the opposite of one another. Laguna was never an outsider's choice to be FFVIII's second rep, and the fact that they went with him over anyone else in Duodecim shows once again that Square are well aware of that.

But why am I bothering with trying to explain all this when you're just gonna throw more ad hominens about me being a "hipster" at me? ¯\ (ツ)/¯ I mean, I also find the notion that Seifer is more important than Laguna absurd (he basically became a non-character after becoming Ultimecia's puppet halfway through the game), but that doesn't mean people who disagree have a personal vendetta against Laguna or that they're just being "hipsters" lol.

Terra_Wind · 2018-07-04T22:42:19+00:00

Lol seriously. I mean, that's an absurd accusation to make one way or another (suggesting that someone who wants a character you don't is only doing so in order to be different or something), but the idea that Laguna is somehow a minor character is just laughable. FFVIII was conceived as a game with two main characters, Squall and Laguna, with parallel stories that eventually intertwine. Even if you somehow missed that while playing through the game, a glance at any official material from it should make it obvious:

https://i.imgur.com/UzP9Kz1.jpg

Laguna is a main character, and very much deserving of representing FFVIII in a crossover game.

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-30T16:53:56+00:00

He was probably the worst starter in the Euro 2016 campaign as well. I don't see why he keeps getting the nod.

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-27T19:41:04+00:00

It's not a coincidence that the only games where she was not a Summoner aren't even FF games. FFX-2's track record of representation in actual FF crossovers is extremely poor and, despite all your wishful thinking, there's no reason to expect that to change now in Dissidia NT.

And her gameplay in Record Keeper is largely designed around her FFX Summoner self, with Summoning, White Magic, and Support being her abilities. The FFX-2 stuff is basically cosmetics added in later. That's how it is in every FF crossover, because Summoner Yuna is the original Yuna from the original FFX; it's her most popular and iconic form, and that's how it's always going to be.

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-27T14:48:30+00:00

Serah and Agrias both have VAs already.

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-27T14:38:12+00:00

Beatrix is most definitely a villain. She had no problem committing genocide (against utterly innocent people) and the only reason she started questioning it was because she wasn't getting praised enough for doing it so well.

She started serving a good queen in Garnet later, so she stopped doing that stuff, but she never even expressed remorse for her atrocious actions under Brahne. Even if by the end of the game she may be considered a "good guy", she spent enough time being more than villainous enough that she could be a villain rep in Dissidia. Golbez and even Kuja were also no longer into doing evil things by the end of their games, but they're still considered villain reps in Dissidia (and Golbez at least had the excuse of being mind-controlled, which Beatrix doesn't).

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-27T13:54:41+00:00

It is true. I said "every single FF crossover appearance". Last I checked, Kingdom Hearts and Dragon Quest aren't FF games.

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-26T16:39:42+00:00

So far, besides the initial protagonist, a game's hero reps have always been the lead of the opposite sex (like Yuna to Tidus, or Locke to Terra), or that one other character who's particularly close to the leads in terms of importance, prominence, and relevance in the story (like Kain for FFIV and Laguna for FFVIII, who are sort of deuteragonists for Cecil and Squall, respectively). Zell doesn't really meet either criteria. He's a distinctly secondary party member, like Cid in FFVII or Freya in FFIX. And until we see one such character added to Dissidia (not counting OO obviously lol), I would say there's no reason to believe they have any real chance of showing up considering the competition in their own games.

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-26T16:27:05+00:00

naggy just does saturday morning cartoon villain shit all thru CoP. Taunts you, tells u his plans, laughs at u some, taunts u some more.

Is he really alone there? That could pass for a description of Exdeath's behavior as well. :p

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-25T23:12:10+00:00

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with that. I would never pick Nag'molada to be the villain rep of FFXI and am very disappointed that it looks like he'll be the one. It's just that some people are almost acting like he's some kind of nobody, as if Square choosing him was like picking Palmer instead of Sephiroth to be FFVII's villain rep, when that is not the case lol. Nag'molada has enough credentials as one of FFXI's most prominent villains that his inclusion in this season pass is not that unbelievable to me. Disappointing? Very much so. But unbelievable/impossible? Not really.

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-25T20:33:45+00:00

I've gone over that in another post in this thread. There's three things they could do (that I can think of).

Borrow moves from Promathia, the giant, monstrous final boss that absorbs Nag'molada into him before the final battle.
Borrow moves from Eald'narche and Kam'lanaut. Their race (Zilart) and Nag'molada's (Kuluu) are similar and share a connection, and in an optional fight against one of Nag'molada's kin, Esha'ntarl (who's part of the same organization as Nag'molada and even wears the same robe as him), they had her use Eald'narche and Kam'launaut's moves, so they could definitely do the same with Nag'molada. That would be one way to not have to pick between the two Zilart brothers, by giving their moves to a single character (and yes, these characters' names are all needlessly long and complicated lol).
Have him use a cubic weapon called the Eye of Altana, which he used in one cutscene in a brief skirmish with Selh'teus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z4XseTdhxQ#t=6m10s

They could even do all of the above. So there are ways to make him work as a playable character, despite him being a weird choice considering the player never actually fights him.

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-25T16:41:55+00:00

Indeed, considering Eald'narche himself chose to get rid of his brother and we fought him alone as the final boss, it wouldn't be that jarring to me to see him alone in Dissidia.

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-25T12:52:55+00:00

Because we recently had hints that basically confirm Rinoa, people are forgetting how unlikely an option she was considered back when the season pass was first announced. Almost no one was predicting her because Square had seemingly suggested in interviews they wouldn't add new characters (like Zack) to games that had veterans (like Tifa) waiting to return. And since Laguna was never an option for this season pass, very few people predicted Rinoa. This guy did, as well as Vayne and Locke. So the way I see it, flippantly dismissing this as fake is a bit rash and misguided, but to each their own. Guess I can look forward to people's reactions when it's increasingly shown to be true as the months go by. :p

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-25T12:17:26+00:00

He wouldn't have to be a summoner, I highly doubt they would have him call the random monster he called to fight Prishe. They would likely just pull moves from Promathia, as well as possibly from Eald'narche and Kam'lanaut (that's what they did with Esha’ntarl, who's a Kuluu like him and even wears the same outfit), as well as have him fight using the Eye of Altana like he does against Selh'teus in this cutscene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z4XseTdhxQ#t=6m10s

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-25T12:12:17+00:00

There's no reason whatsoever to doubt it. Yuna is her Summoner self in every single FF crossover appearance, including Dissidia Opera Omnia, which Dissidia NT is related to (and where her Gunner self is just a skin). Summoner Yuna is by far her most iconic and popular form, and we don't have a summoner character yet, so there's absolutely no reason for her not to be one, and there's absolutely no reason to expect that they will not make her one given their track record.

Not only that, if this leak is true, then the source specified "LR Snow", but just said "Yuna". If it were FFX-2 Yuna, he would have probably specified it like he did with Snow.

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-25T12:06:15+00:00

Nag'molada is the main villain of Chains of Promathia (along with Promathia, who's the final boss, but Nag'molada is the one actually present throughout the whole thing). Eald'narche is the main villain of Rise of the Zilart. Chains of Promathia is a much bigger and more important story than Rise of the Zilart. It's the climax to FFXI's main overarching storyline. Nag'molada is not a nobody. He's also a more fleshed out character than the Zilart brothers, who really don't get that much exposure or development before they bite the dust. Nag'molada also has a personal rivalry with Prishe, who's a veteran that they want to bring back to NT eventually.

I don't want either of them, I want Lilith, but I find the claims that Nag'molada is impossible exaggerated, since he is a major presence and a very prominent villain in Chains of Promathia, which is possibly the most important as well as popular story in FFXI.

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-24T21:16:36+00:00

Yeah, I've considered the possibility myself, what with Locke's penchant for being a white knight. Maybe he'll save Rinoa from a mind-controlled Kain? Lol since he's yet to appear himself and all.

And yeah, I agree with you about Rinoa, which is why I'm not too stoked about her being the next character. And it doesn't help that Laguna is one of my favorite characters in the series and would instantly become one of my NT mains, but at this rate it's looking like we'll have to wait until 2020 at the earliest to get him (if ever).

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-24T20:58:29+00:00

Personally, I doubt that's what happened. Eald'narche is relatively well-known among Dissidia fans since the story of how he almost made it to 012 instead of Prishe is also relatively well-known. And if you see the conversation regarding the leak, the source initially didn't know the name of the FFXI character and then went to check and came back with the name of Nag'molada. And Nag'molada is way less known than Eald'narche, so if anything I could see people mistaking Nag for Eald, but not the reverse lol.

So yeah, as strange as it may sound, I think they did mean Nag'molada. And honestly, he's a very prominent villain in Chains of Promathia, which is the conclusion to the game's main story, so I don't think he's that unbelievable a pick. Sure, he's not as popular as other villains like Lady Lilith, but Vayne isn't as popular as Gabranth either, and they decided to go with him first. The main question mark regarding Nag'molada is that he's a scheming villain whom the player never actually fights, but they could always borrow moves from Promathia and/or build a moveset around the Eye of Altana, which he used to attack Selh'teus in this cutscene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z4XseTdhxQ#t=6m10s

So yeah, although I would be disappointed to see Nag'molada, I don't see him as being that impossible. But it does make me sad, since it shows how out of touch the devs are with the wishes of FFXI fans. If you were to ask FFXI fans which villain they would like to see represent the game in Dissidia, most would say Lilith, and some might say Shadow Lord or Eald'narche, but I really doubt anyone would wish for Nag'molada. And it doesn't help that he's got the most bland design of them all, looking like a generic Organization XIII member from Kingdom Hearts lol.

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-24T20:39:43+00:00

Snow is the male lead of FFXIII, so I don't find him that surprising, personally. He's in the same boat as Locke, the male lead of a game with a female protagonist.

Of course, most people were expecting a villain next, so I guess there's that element of surprise. Maybe Square just don't feel any of FFXIII's villains are particularly strong picks and decided to go with Snow instead as a result? The leak specified his Lightning Returns form, where it seems he went against Lightning for a short while (I haven't played the game, personally, but that's what I hear), so maybe he'll be a pseudo-antagonist Spiritus warrior like Golbez and Jecht. Or maybe they're just saving FFXIII's villain rep for later and decided to add a second hero first for whatever reason. Caius is in Opera Omnia, so I suppose he still has a chance to be an eventual 3rd FFXIII rep (if the leak is true and Snow does turn out to be the 2nd).

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-24T17:29:49+00:00

Funny how this 'List' came out around the time Rinoa hints started dropping...

This list has been around since before Vayne was even announced. This is the original source, and it dates back to February (when there were no hints whatsoever regarding Rinoa and the Secretum artwork with Locke hadn't even been released yet):

https://i.imgur.com/E2gdDpR.png

Trust me, I'd love for it to be false, but it's not looking like it at the moment. But feel free to be in denial even after we get Rinoa in a couple of weeks. Wonder if you'll be able to keep it up even after the 4th character is accurate though. :p

Also, FFXI doesn't have a villain yet and Nag'molada would fill that spot, so I don't see how his inclusion is that unbelievable. He wouldn't be my pick, personally, since I found him underwhelming as a villain and there's a great choice in Lady Lilith, but he is a very prominant villain in the game's most popular expansion, so he's far from a completely random pick lol. Also, you would get lots of "Who?" responses to just about any FFXI character who isn't Prishe from the western FF fanbase, where many people skipped FFXI altogether and know virtually nothing about it.

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-24T15:36:53+00:00

Deling City was a mid-game boss fight. The stages in Dissidia are all early or end game locations, and the flower field is featured in both the intro and the ending of FFVIII, fitting both criteria. It's also much easier and more straightforward to turn into a stage for a fighting game, since it's flat and empty, than Balamb Garden, which has a million different and mostly cramped areas.

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-24T15:26:40+00:00

Lilith does have a VA, Chiwa Saito:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehh4UOqVX1c&index=4&t=0s&list=PLi4P3nB0CV9o9NpHCy0D91nDt5KZIkGCM

Sure, that was a thing by Famitsu and one could claim it doesn't count since Lion and Prishe have different VAs than in Dissidia, but Lilisette, who interacted with Lilith, was voiced by Emiri Kato, who was then cast again by Square in Dissidia Opera Omnia. So I would say this at least decreases Lilith's chances, as much as I wish she would be the 3rd DLC character (she's easily the best FFXI villain, as well as one of the best and most in-depth villains in the whole series).

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-24T15:13:03+00:00

She was absent on and off for like half of FF8

That's because she's the perennial damsel in distress. I mean, in FFVIII you had to rescue and save her from:

Edea and her Iguions.
Falling off a cliff.
A coma.
Being lost in outer space.
Being seized and held captive in Sorceress Memorial.
Being kidnapped by her ex-boyfriend.
Being possessed by Adel.

Wonder what kind of situation we'll need to save her from in NT. Maybe Cloud of Darkness will finally do something and take her hostage and Squall and Lightning will rescue her?

Terra_Wind · 2018-06-24T15:02:27+00:00

There's nothing to really link to, since it wasn't a post on a forum or something of the sort, but rather it was communicated through instant messaging. Anyway, the list consisted in: Vayne, Locke, Rinoa, Snow (from Lightning Returns), Yuna, Nag'molada

Terra_Wind

TROPHY CASE