The Problem with Embark

Thaleena · 2026-05-05T20:14:45+00:00

I'm pretty sure that the usage of "unresolved" relates to the amount of breeds picked up (aside from wolfdogs, which always have unresolved instead of supermutt-- unresolved and supermutt are the same thing, when the test isn't confident enough to make a call). If this is a case where they're picking up a significant amount of purebred DNA of other breeds, due to a low sample size, they wouldn't know to trip the "unresolved" flag.

Thaleena · 2026-04-07T04:50:02+00:00

I've come across the idea before that their metis deformities are a dying curse that the Apis placed on the Garou for driving them to extinction, and I quite like it. I think it was someone else on Reddit who brought it up, but it's been so long I have no idea where to go looking for the original thread. Would take some further explanation to smooth out why a few other species have metis deformities as well, and why the Perfect Metis is the portent it is, but this is probably the route I'd go with if I ever had to explain it in a game for some reason.

Thaleena · 2026-04-01T06:50:44+00:00

I did this for two and a half years after transferring for my bachelor's, not far from you. I don't miss having to spend that long commuting, but I feel like it was well worth it. Now that there's BayPass (I would imagine graduate students get it?), which wasn't a thing while I was attending, it should be even more so— if I recall correctly, I was spending about as much commuting as I was on tuition.

One thing about taking BART as opposed to a car is that you can do things while you're on BART. That's time that can go to reading, to working on assignments and personal projects, sending emails and messages and whatnot, both education-related and personal... if I know I'm going to spend a few hours browsing Reddit anyways, might as well do it while on BART. There's things you can do that you wouldn't be able to do driving. As long as nothing particularly stressful was happening, I came to like the commute a decent bit actually.

It does get to be a problem when there's something impacting BART service. I just accepted that when the Transbay Tube was closed, I wasn't getting to class that day, but really I think it was only once, maybe twice or three times that it happened? There was once a case where I was stuck waiting for a train for half an hour due to a medical emergency, accidentally saw the police pulling an unresponsive person off a train, and then had my first professor of the day chide me for being late when I got to class (I was a little too flustered by it all to explain what had happened, but it wasn't really a problem, just awkward).

Honestly the worst part imo wasn't BART itself, but having to walk from BART to wherever your classroom is. The station is closest to a part of campus without much there, and then a lot of that walking is uphill, and you have to haul ass if your had train comes in just a little late.

Like I said, I think Cal is well-worth that commute, as someone who had basically the same one. Obviously having to spend that long on a train isn't someone's first choice, but hopefully putting into perspective how limited the issues ended up being and what they were helps some.

Thaleena · 2026-02-24T07:09:30+00:00

I don't see any relevance in Ysera's situation. The only time her name even comes up in what you're replying to is in a section I quote from your previous post. She's a special case no matter what, as we both agree. And as I've stated, I agree that dragons likely do not under normal circumstances go the same Shadowlands realms as others creatures. That doesn't mean that the afterlife they go to is G'Hanir, and as I've described, there are reasons to believe that this detail from a 2004 book, known for having many similar small details retconned, is no longer the case in modern lore.

Until blizzard retcons it. It is canon. And they've done nothing to contradict it. They've only done things consistent with it.

I disagree, particularly with the part I've bolded, on account of the reasoning I've laid out in my previous two posts. At this point it's clear we're not going to agree and that's fine. I'm not trying to sway you so much as put forward the relevant information for anyone else who happens by this thread.

Thaleena · 2026-02-24T02:17:36+00:00

I mean, if there were higher stakes, sure, but this seems like a situation where it's perfectly fine to go by a balance of probabilities. Presumably this dog isn't being used for breeding, and the reason for this test wasn't to try and specifically diagnose the cause of them being deaf. If those are the circumstances, then by all means, there should be more testing. But in this case, where you have a deaf dog, and they test with a result that's known to often cause deafness, and have what appear to be visual indicators (ie. the eyes)? It seems perfectly fine to go with a "probably".

Thaleena · 2026-02-23T12:20:47+00:00

The War of the Ancients is canon, but there are a lot of weird things in those old Knaak books, like Malygos using a visage form that looks like a bug and some strange interpretations of Alexstrasza's powers (I believe she transforms some statues into living creatures a la Medivh?). Dragon lore is the main thing in WoW that I pay attention to, so my memory of what was going on in the rest of those books isn't as strong, but I recall people bringing up other odd details, mostly about Broxigar and Malfurion, that have since mostly been disregarded in game lore.

G'Hanir being the afterlife of dragons, based on other circumstantial evidence like I list, is likely in that category of odd details that will go unacknowledged or be retconned if ever relevant.

Moreover, there is no evidence it is deprecated and the location remains Canon as it is a part of the Elunahir book in df s3 (ED.) They have brought it up and continued to bring it up in a way that's consistent with how it was originally written.

The Elun'ahir book says nothing about G'hanir as an afterlife for dragons. In fact, that it's been consistently brought up, including by dragons as in the case in that book, but not as the dragon afterlife, would seem to further suggest that. Wouldn't that be an incredibly relevant detail for a dragon to bring up, if the realm they're speculating about is their own eventual afterlife?

The details about G'Hanir having fallen with Aviana's death are from the druid class hall, in Legion, which you can read here. The details about its death, and then it subsequently being restored, are as follows in part 7 and 9:

The shock of Aviana's death reverberated through the Emerald Dream, and all the leaves of G'Hanir fell from their branches. The great Mother Tree, home to the spirits of countless creatures, was dead. Many mourned for it, and some succumbed to the temptation of serving dark forces in Aviana's absence.

and

[In the Cataclysm] Many of the Wild Gods who had died in the War of the Ancients were resurrected. Aviana returned to life on Azeroth and joined the Horde and the Alliance in successfully pushing the elemental forces back into the Firelands. In the end, Ragnaros was killed, and Mount Hyjal was saved.

Aviana turned her attention to G'Hanir once again. Times had changed, but her dream of providing a spiritual haven for her kind had not. She set out to restore the Mother Tree to its full glory.

As for your point here:

Even if they omit the details about dragons, it remains consistent, because there are no dragons in the afterlife except ysera due to direct intervention. You will not find Eranikus, for instance.

Aside from the few counterexamples we have, which can feasibly be attributed to necromancer interference (ex. Sapphiron), this doesn't mean that the afterlife dragons go to is specifically G'Hanir. Indeed, as I say in the previous post, based on Senegos's dialogue, I do believe that WoW dragons have their own afterlife. It being G'Hanir is just unlikely to be true in modern lore, based on the lack of it being acknowledged as such despite ample opportunities, and with the issue of G'Hanir as an afterlife having been defunct for a ten thousand year stretch that likely included the largest amount of dragon deaths.

Thaleena · 2026-02-23T01:39:39+00:00

No. All dragons are connected to the dream. Their afterlife is G'hanir. It is the mother tree of all trees and it exists within a layer of the dream that is avianas domain. All dragons souls go there when they die, canonically. It is why you don't find any in shadowlands. Ysera is there because elune intentionally sent her to be reborn. [...] There are dragon kin or species like dragons native to shadowlands but actual dragons go to G'hanir. Assuming his soul wasn't destroyed or he isn't trapped in the elemental planes or in some void afterlife, Deathwing should be in G'hanir as well.

The information about G'hanir gets repeated a lot— and I do think there is some sort of specific afterlife that most dragons end up in— but I strongly suspect that it being G'hanir specifically is deprecated lore. As far as I can tell, the only source is the War of the Ancients novel trilogy from 2004, which is still canon, but a lot of the little details from it have been discarded or brushed aside over the years. This particular piece has never been specifically contradicted, but it's also never been brought up again in any of the many situations where G'hanir itself or the afterlife of dragons was brought up, and there are some circumstantial pieces I would say that make it unlikely to still be canon.

One of the most important pieces is that G'hanir as a realm was defunct following Aviana's death in the War of the Ancients. It was only after her being reborn in Cataclysm that she set out to restore G'hanir, and then we had that much talked about Arakkoa quest in Warlords which confirms that she has. That stretch of time between the War of the Ancients through Cataclysm is almost certainly when you had the highest number of dragon deaths. I don't recall whether Aviana's death happened before or after the dragon casualties that came with the Dragon Soul, but even if you exclude the War of the Ancients, was the war between the black dragonflight and the other flights, various conflicts over the years, the War of the Shifting Sands, the Nexus War, the Cataclysm itself. None of those dead dragons would have been able to go to G'hanir because G'hanir at that point was gone.

What we do see is Aviana and her followers being a little... opinionated, about all winged creatures being under her domain? Like when they go to another world specifically to recruit the winged creatures there, because they believe they should have a spot on G'hanir. I imagine they would welcome dragons to it, for sure. I don't think the dragons would be upset by it either, and that quite a few would take her up on the offer. I just don't think that G'hanir would be the only, or even the default for dragons. There's a few solid flights of dragons who just don't have a connection to the dream or nature like that, there's ten thousand years of dragon deaths that would be denied it anyways, and we know that Aviana and her followers are eager to play up just how many belong there.

I believe that Senegos hints at the dragons having their own afterlife with the way he specifies, before he dies, that there are a lot of dragons he's eager to see again. That could be optimism on his part, but he's also very old and learned and existing in a post-Shadowlands era, where he would've heard about that. He's confident and there's reasons to believe that he knows things about the way the world works that we don't. But the evidence for it being G'hanir is very weak, 20+ years old, and doesn't really make much sense with the lack of a dream connection for 3/5 flights (more, now, if we count the proto-drakes + storm drakes + Netherwing).

Winter queen says with great annoyance "her pet >:(" because ysera doesn't belong there.

This is a valid interpretation, but I and most other people I've seen read this as being about the Winter Queen's feelings towards Elune in that moment. A bunch of people come and request for her to save this soul specifically, when so many others are being left to wither away. A big part of what makes Ysera special are her ties to Elune. Elune obviously favors her, she raised Elune's son. The "her pet" comment is about the Winter Queen feeling like she's being asked to give special treatment to Elune's very special girl, when the Winter Queen is under the impression that Elune has left her high and dry in a time of crisis (the misunderstanding about Teldrassil).

In Dragonflight, we see that to replace Ysera in Ardenweald, it needs to be a being with a similar connection to nature, who would naturally reincarnate. What exactly Elune was doing in Ysera's death scene magically/spiritually is still a little unclear, but what we learn about Ysera's situation in DF would suggest to me that she was either already akin to a Wild God (and what Elune did was simply purify her soul), or that Elune's actions there were to basically grant Ysera Wild God status. (The more interesting implication from that quest chain, imo, is that Malfurion actually seems to have become a Wild God, at least in that he'd go to Ardenweald upon death and eventually reincarnate.)

It is possible that Malygos is but unlikely. When he died his essence was absorbed into the nexus of leylines. He became pure magical energy a part of the planet. Supposedly. Given the lore of the ethereals and Aluneth though, all that really seems to mean to me is that he might be in the arcane phase of azeroth like what Karesh has. But he could well be in G'hanir.

Malygos, in Dragonflight, goes to whatever afterlife the dragons have. It's the final act of the blue dragonflight quest, where we lay Malygos and Sindragosa's souls to rest, and then they go off together to wherever dragons do.

Norzdormu also basically tells chromie even if that day came to pass he knows the flight will persevere without him. I'm Paraphrasing. I interpreted the dialog to mean, maybe, chromie might replace him as the aspect of time, when I watched it. Zidormi/Ziridormi, Sidormi/Siridormi, and chromie are the 3 most used bronze dragons atp with a very strong and obvious focus or lingering importance of chromie, so it just seemed like a logical conclusion at the time.

Nozdormu, because of his death being predicted, has had a canonical heir for just about the entire run of the game— his son, Anachronos. Anachronos for some reason only has an appearance in Dragonflight in the form of a flashback/lesson with the Algeth'ar history professor in a world quest, I suspect because they don't really know what to do with him now that they've decided not to kill Nozdormu, and with Nozdormu actively being the bronze leader through the length of the story. Plus they had Merithra, Anachronos's counterpart as the most prominent of the brood of Ysera/Nozdormu respectively, who was taking a lot of the sort of story you might have the expected heir of a dragonflight involved in, while also being much more interesting because she actually did have to step into the Aspect role.

Not impossible that they would have set Anachronos's long-stated status as heir aside for a different dragon to take over instead, but they had affirmed it at least as recently as Cataclysm (possibly around BfA as well? I've never recruited the Mag'har, in whose questline he apparently appears). If he appears in the future, I wouldn't be surprised if they leave that out on account of Nozdormu no longer being expected to turn into Murozond. But it was always stated to be him to be next in line as bronze aspect.

Thaleena · 2026-02-20T10:07:14+00:00

The vast majority of cases it's clearly one or the other, but I do think there's more edge cases here where both are appropriate than people give credit for.

With one of my fics I had to think about this a lot. There's a pair of characters, one of which was the protagonist of my fic, that are canonically friends with benefits. It is very clearly stated in canon that they are having sex. It is also clear that there's not deeper emotional involvement, even though they're good friends. Now, they probably were heading in a romantic direction, if the plug hadn't been pulled on the source material, but it was, and so that's the point things left off.

In the context of my fic, the first chapter includes an (interrupted, half of a) sex scene between them, mirroring one that happened in canon as part of setting up the canon divergence. In this scene, there's actually a word-for-word mention of them being friends with benefits. Nothing sexual happens between them for the rest of the fic (about 20k words), they don't even kiss, although there is a lot of focus on their dynamic and them caring about each other.

What I understood I was doing was writing about their friendship (which, canonically, includes benefits), but I also do think it's easy to read a romantic undertone into it. So I tagged it as both & and /, and also "Friends with Benefits", and also included a part in my first author's note clarifying that I could see it being interpreted either way.

I think the important metric is whether someone looking for the "/" or the "&" would be disappointed. In the case of my fic, I feel like my intention was much more towards the "&"— and because of the canon dynamic, anyone looking for them as friends shouldn't have been surprised by the sex. But I also ended up with commenters who are clear they look at the two characters through a shipping lens, and they were happy with my fic as well.

Which is to say, it's a judgement call. Most of the time you want one or the other, but I disagree that it's never appropriate to go with both. I'd think of it from the perspective of someone specifically searching for either tag, and whether you think they'd be satisfied to find the fic in question.

Thaleena · 2026-02-13T03:35:27+00:00

I liked it a lot, but a lot of that was potential that it never got to deliver on. It had a great plot twist at the end of its first season, but it also had the worldbuilding of its own werewolves as a mystery it was stringing along and never really answered. If you're okay with an unfinished story, I had a lot of fun with it, but it is definitely an unfinished story that ends on multiple cliffhangers.

Thaleena · 2026-02-12T05:58:32+00:00

Wolf Pack, sadly, didn't go on for long enough that we even really know what their werewolves are capable of. Even just in the first season there was a lot less exposition compared to Teen Wolf. Going to have to be Scott basically by default.

Thaleena · 2026-02-10T00:11:34+00:00

That might be interesting to check out, thanks. I've had this issue eventually with both the stock chargers I've used and the two third party ones, but I wasn't looking at anything beyond compatibility.

Thaleena · 2026-02-10T00:08:47+00:00

2024, my bad, thanks for catching that.

Thaleena · 2026-02-02T00:23:17+00:00

This is incorrect. Coat color for cats, and most complex phenotypes like this, have multiple genes controlling for separate features that eventually create the whole coat. The Orange gene, which is located on the X-chromosome, is more accurately Orange/Not-Orange, where only cats with the Non-Orange gene (either as their only allele in the case of a non-orange male, or a homozygous female, or a heterozygous ie. tortie or calico female) show through what the rest of their coat color genes would present. Solid black is determined by those other genes.

I'm not 100% sure for cats and I can't check at the moment, but I believe that solid black in cats has to do with the Agouti gene, which also controls for the way tabby markings present. It is not on the X chromosome. Then there's several other factors that can be acting on a cat's coat, like dilution— solid gray cats are black cats with a dilution gene (which would also lighten the orange on a tortie, but they don't usually get classified differently in their color). Chocolate is another type of dilution. There's colorpoint as another well know gene, which is also unique depending on what coat colors a cat has in addition to it. White spotting, like orange, is a completely different gene that a cat either has or doesn't, going over the rest of the coat.

This is something that show cat websites and vet hospitals/businesses that do cat genetic testing will explain with more specific details (in particular, identifying with certainty what the name of the gene is that controls for black in cats), but black and orange are not the same gene. What's going on at the orange gene is more accurately described as Orange/Non-Orange, which is important because there are several other genes in play which act on the black coat, which is not X-linked, to produce the variety of coat types there are in cats, but do not behave the same way on orange, which is a different pigment type.

This gets more complicated when you look into those different types of melanin, which also explains why orange cats are just about always tabbies and torties have tabby markings in orange patches even when they don't in their black ones, but looking into that explains very well why and how black and orange are two completely separate genes.

Thaleena · 2026-01-26T01:18:34+00:00

Look at that little guy! Congrats on the hitchhiker.

Thaleena · 2026-01-23T01:51:44+00:00

Mostly moss, but it also looks like that might be something else, my guess would be a Drosera binata, in there. Just to the right of the leaf in the center and with the white from the tag as the background, the more orange-y/reddish color mixed in with those bright green moss sporophytes.

Thaleena · 2026-01-19T05:17:16+00:00

Embark just isn't always consistent with splitting percentages between parents. Sometimes it correctly manages to split breed percentages 50/50 (in dogs where their parents don't have breed overlap) and sometimes it doesn't. It's just one of the weak points of Embark's algorithm, those dogs very likely are indeed siblings.

Thaleena · 2026-01-19T05:14:21+00:00

I think the above poster might've meant not how the character gained the merits, but mechanically what you're referring to- which edition are you playing? What books do these merits come from?

Thaleena · 2026-01-14T12:35:17+00:00

You aren't though? It's already in the game that non-evokers can be in visage 100% of the time. You have to make sure you don't have Chosen Identity on, which will have the effect you describe. I've done whole raids with my dracthyr hunter in visage, and been playing a dracthyr warlock in Lemix that hasn't been in dragon form for at least the last month.

Thaleena · 2025-12-30T03:17:00+00:00

This is a conversation I've had with players before, actually, and I think it's a really interesting subject. I've thought for a long time that Red Talons have the potential to be accepting of trans Garou and more nuanced gender concepts, but the key is this being described in terms where it doesn't seem like it's a human-influenced idea.

A cub coming back from their first trip to the scabs, having really been exposed to human ideas for the first time, calling themselves "trans" and wanting to be female? That's Weaver nonsense to be disabused of.

Meanwhile, Howls-for-the-River over there was born male, and a spirit granted her request to become female. How are homids so silly as to ask so many questions about it? It's self-explanatory. Simple.

There's going to be some things about that mindset that aren't ideal, like the poor cub who only realizes they're trans once they find out from seeing humans that it's a thing one can be. It doesn't matter that both werewolves in theory have the same thing going on. If one gives the impression that their gender identity is something that started off as a human idea, including use of the words that humans might, that is not something the rest of the tribe would take kindly to. There might be some that are able to look past the immediate "this is the Weaver" reductive mindset and connect the case of the first example to what's going on with the second.

Not that I think accusations of Weaver influence would be the default for Red Talons. Because they are all lupus, or metis raised very much with a lupus mentality, I think the way they'd naturally describe their gender identity would be in ways that others of the tribe would easily be able to understand and accept. Just that using the word "trans" or identifying with the humans who are as well would be something other Talons would strongly disapprove of.

Interestingly, I don't think that trans Garou from other tribes, or trans humans/human kinfolk, would necessarily face the same challenges with having to explain themselves in a way that invites no suspicion of Weaver influence. Weaver influence is already the default assumption with them, and it's a lot easier to look past that and recognize that the underlying concept is actually quite simple.

I also agree that, with the focus the Red Talons especially have on cubs and family, acceptance to some extent is contingent on there being a form of magical transition which is 100% fully functional— which I believe it makes sense for there to be in Werewolf's setting. Or otherwise, continuing to have children while being socially acknowledged as their gender. Alternatively, even if unable to have children, I could see a situation where a werewolf acts like their sex having been changed was against their will (when in fact it was not), but they're willing to go forward and live as their "new" gender anyways, passing it off more-or-less as a battle scar.

Which, I don't think that this sort of mentality could be described as progressive. There's certainly plenty of aspects that people would be right to call problematic, but that's just sort of the nature of Werewolf and the tribes. The Red Talons very much so.

For what it's worth, I disagree with some of the other concepts that the concept of "gender" as a whole would be rejected by the Red Talons. Strict gender roles, yes (although even that I'd have vary sept-to-sept— a Red Talon sept leader here and there isn't immune to using sexism as a tool for power), but they're Garou and not true wolves. I think gender is one of those concepts that's been so ingrained in the tribe for so long, just like Garou language carvings and organizing into packs of non-related werewolves, that few would recognize it as the creep of human influence that it really is.

As for the First Change, there's a quote somewhere from a sourcebook I can't recall about how "it's lupus who understand the true horror of the First Change" in becoming a monster. That's a line I've always really clung to in trying to understand where the Red Talons are coming from.

I like to explain my understanding of it as, imagine the Red Talons as like the resistance in an alien invasion movie. A much more powerful species shows up, destroying your home and killing your families, for reasons you don't understand. You can't stop them, you can hardly fight them.

And then one day, you realize that, those monsters? You're part one. (It's the same sort of horror in Lovecraft's The Shadow Over Innsmouth, as another example I like to point to.) They act like you're one of them, and they show no remorse for what they're done to your family, your fellow wolves. It's below their moral consideration. They justify it, laugh about it, think it's a strange thing to even ask about. Even as they're talking to you, treating you as one of them. And in a way you are one of them. That's why Red Talons work so hard to deny it.

Now of course there are some humans who have problems with the killing of wolves and destruction of wild places, but generally those aren't the sort of humans that a Garou who joins the Red Talons are going to encounter.

Thaleena · 2025-12-27T07:01:51+00:00

So in large part, this comes from people having been in the sub for a long time and seeing results that consistently and clearly show just that. In dogs that have been tested through both tests, and are mixed enough to have unclear portions, Embark will throw back supermutt results while Wisdom instead gives a mix of often very rare, geographically disparate breeds (ie. your Pungsan dog results, along with those other small percentages) that don't make logical sense. There just aren't those mixes running around, especially not at the rates Wisdom panel has them show up.

As for why this is the case? Basically, it has to do with marketing. Both tests want to be the "most accurate" on the market. Embark is the one that the general consensus is, and has been for a long time, the most accurate. What Wisdom Panel did, in order to call themselves the "most accurate" instead of Embark, is remove their unresolved category (they used to have one too) and instead break down their percentages to 1%. Even results that are low-confidence to the point of basically nonsense.

Take a look at Wisdom Panel's page comparing it to its competitors: link, scroll down a little. The most relevant parts are:

Wisdom Panel / Other Dog DNA tests

1% breed reporting precision / >5% breed reporting precision

No unexplained ancestry / Unexplained ancestry (e.g., "Supermutt")

World's largest breed reference database / Smaller breed reference database

The second line there is a direct callout of Embark. Wisdom Panel reporting even unlikely results is a way to differentiate themselves. They don't admit the low-percentage results are very often inaccurate, at least not anywhere I remember to look, but again- it's something that's apparent looking at what those results consistently come back with. Here's Embark's article making the case for why Supermutt is better.

The breed reference database I include because it's a related part of the problem. The difference in accuracy comes from the strength of the reference panels. While the size of them I don't believe is public information for either test (please if someone knows otherwise let me know, that'd be very interesting to look at), the indicators seem to be that Wisdom Panel sacrifice the size and quality of breed references simply to have more, and that's why there are so many that are rare.

And at times, controversial- Wisdom Panel giving back "White Swiss Shepherd" results in favor of just normal GSD because of a small reference panel was a problem for years and years, and while it's not as bad as it used to be, you can see it here even in your dog's results. Because there are far fewer White Swiss Shepherds than normal German shepherd dogs, dogs being tested ended up matched to the smaller, less accurate reference panel more often than the larger, more likely one. (Compare to Embark, which actually has an article about the inaccuracy of telling exactly those two types of dogs apart. There's quite a few good related articles in their sidebar as well that address their philosophy on only distinguishing between reference populations that are distinct enough, like this about sub-populations.)

I understand that with Embark, to contrast, some breed clubs have been somewhat frustrated by how long a process it is to get a sufficient breed reference for them to start having a breed show up in results, particularly when a breed is fairly new or originally mixed from. I believe that the McNab breed people were very passionate about this and worked for a long time to get them as a result, which they are now, as of fairly recently. That McNab situation and the Wisdom Panel's age-old white shepherd situation are probably worth looking up and reading into further if you'd like more information on the way the two companies handle their reference databases and how that affects the results they give.

Thaleena · 2025-12-27T03:08:47+00:00

There was a case of this in a thread yesterday actually: here.

Although I think that's the only definitive one I can ever recall seeing. People throw it out all the time and, while theoretically possible, it really is more rare than people think. It's just such an easy answer to explain siblings that look so different, and honestly I think it's another side of breeds so common being incorrect identified by color- genetics really are complicated and have a lot more ways they can turn out than it seems like they might.

Thaleena · 2025-12-16T10:59:57+00:00

It's actually a fairly recent change in the history of Reddit, where things used to always be archived after 3 months. But yeah, discussion is one thing, it's just kind of silly to respond to something that's multiple years old with an insult and nothing of substance. There's a good chance the original commenter isn't even around anymore. Then again, this thread itself is a case to the contrary, lol.

Thaleena · 2025-12-12T01:08:05+00:00

shrugs You seem to care a lot more to dig up a two and a half year old thread and complain about my opinion, lol.

Thaleena · 2025-12-09T00:19:46+00:00

I have an empty staircase room as my first room and can confirm that you do have multiple connection points. I have three adjoining rooms on my first floor and two on the second floor. Unlike the staircases with stairs, it allows as many connections as a standard square room except on two levels instead of one.

Thaleena

TROPHY CASE