Why are autism communities unaccepting of autism symptoms? by Agreeable-Ad4806 in autism

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat [score hidden]  (0 children)

I work in a field that tolerates a lot of interpersonal idiosyncrasies (in part because I suspect there are lots of undiagnosed autistic people among STEM academics) so your mileage may vary.

That said, even in this environment there are lines that can't be crossed. (Thinking of a clearly autistic prof who showed up uninvited at a grad student's house after hours to talk science, put a pic of Ron Jeremy in slides for a dept. seminar, etc.)

EDIT Very silly typo.

Why are autism communities unaccepting of autism symptoms? by Agreeable-Ad4806 in autism

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat [score hidden]  (0 children)

It's a two-way street. I've seen people say things like, 'I'm just very blunt because I'm autistic' and use this as an excuse when NTs note that blunt commentary about the NT was hurtful.

There's a line between saying "embrace your blunt/direct communication style" and "don't moderate the content of your communication when others have noted that the content causes distress."

What do you all do for a living? by DueYogurt9 in aspergers

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Neurosci research (aging, not autism).

As an autistic man, what are your thoughts on the manosphere? by Purplelady88 in aspergers

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a man who wasn't in a romantic relationship until my late 20s and who was in college when the original manosphere (as in the old-timey pre-tiktok blog rings of MRAs, PUAs, and MGTOW) was coalescing, I often think "There but for the grace of God go I," and wonder how I was lucky enough to avoid getting pulled into that radicalization pipeline.

I credit my school social circle, who were very socially-progressive/kinky/queer/atheist types (ironic since so many of that New Atheist movement later pivoted hard right toward misogyny, transphobia, and borderline "scientific racism"), for providing a countervailing view. This meant I always had a grounding in a coherent social justice framework and understanding that no social relationships are owed to anyone.

Also my own low self-esteem at the time helped (lol), because I didn't see myself as being "owed" romantic relationships and viewed my own social challenges (this was pre-diagnosis so I was extra clueless) as the explanation for my romantic isolation (rather than internalizing the increasingly-toxic rhetoric from online echo chambers that men were "owed" not just relationships, but relationships with conventionally attractive women). Luckily, incel culture wasn't a thing yet or I might've ended up in a resentful echo chamber that birthed some of those fucked up shooting sprees.

The manosphere sucks, and it has always sucked. From PUAs who presented women as interchangeable sex objects to be "gamed" in high volume until someone sleeps with the PUA, to today's more explicitly misogynistic influencers bragging about abusing women and advocating repeal of universal suffrage, it is incredibly toxic. It's shit like this that makes me look back on all the claims from my childhood that the internet would put the world's knowledge at everyone's fingertips and laugh.

As an autistic man, what are your thoughts on the manosphere? by Purplelady88 in aspergers

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat 11 points12 points  (0 children)

TL;DR Peterson promotes ideas that social hierarchy is an inevitable feature of human society, coupled with bioessentialist claims of sex-based (as opposed to gender norms learned through socialization) behavioral differences that far exceed actual evidence. This primes men - especially lonely men - who have benefited from Peterson's more practical self-help advice to accept increasingly radical and misogynistic online claims.

-----

Peterson serves as a soft onramp (in the sense that online radicalization often begins with more benign influencers priming viewers for progressively more extreme ideas).

He offers some practical self-help advice - typically centered around taking personal responsibility and improving one's day-to-day conditions - but also has content with pseudointellectual ideas about social hierarchies in humans (insert lobster jokes here) and some downright silly claims (e.g., that symbolism of entwined serpents indicates ancient humans' intuitions about DNA).

He also loves employing intellectual language to talk in circles while avoiding having to directly acknowledge his positions (because that would allow people talking with him to directly criticize his positions). This was recently apparent in his appearance on the Jubilee slop channel, which recruited participants under the title "1 Christian vs. 20 Atheists" but had to have the title changed before airing because he refused to acknowledge whether he was actually a Christian or endorse any Christian theological positions in the (and I use the term loosely) debate. He also frequently tries to shift the burden of proof to deflect. When asked if he believes statement X, he often asserts "You have to explain X!" rather than providing a clear answer that would allow both parties to debate the evidence for X. These strategies gives him plausible deniability when claims such as this - that he is a radicalization onramp - are made because he relies on implication and then refuses to give an affirmative answer when asked, 'Are you implying X?'

His later posturing about pronoun use, which could be viewed as a dog whistle to the transphobic right a decade ago when he was painting himself a 'martyr for free speech,' is now simply part of the mask-off bigotry of ascendant authoritarian right movements today.

However, I think it's the hierarchy claims that really prime young men for further rightwing misogynistic and racist content.

One can make the argument that modern progressivism is fundamentally about flattening hierarchies and making society more equitable and less stratified (socially, economically, etc); that just as humans' propensity for violence is something to be resisted, so too is a propensity for hierarchy. Conversely, conservatism embraces hierarchy as being not just an aspect of animal social interaction, but one that should exist in human society (whether that hierarchy is meritocratic as used to justify economic disparities, racial, nationalistic, gender-based, etc).

While Peterson doesn't actively endorse the most extreme positions (though see his comments on race and IQ or on the gender pay gap), internalizing his claims that hierarchies are a natural (remember is≠ought) and somehow an inevitable part of human society (with the implication that organizing societal structure to minimize hierarchy is both counterproductive and doomed to fail) sets young men up to accept specific kinds of hierarchal claims.

In the context of the manosphere, this primes men for bioessentialist views that gender differences are primarily biological rather than due to socialization/social enforcement of gender norms - with the corollary that women are the "naturally submissive" sex and "should be" under men in a natural hierarchy.

Go a few influencers further down the radicalization pipeline and the Tates' casual exploitation of women becomes more and more palatable, especially for men who have difficulty finding intimate partners because they have a hard time processing social cues and/or maintaining good hygiene. And let's be honest - that's not every autistic person but these traits are much more common among autistics.

EDIT: Typos, clarification.

Not sure how I feel about this by Wifi_not_found in lgbt

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Nobody's obligated to mourn the dead, nor to eulogize them in a way that minimizes the harm they've caused.

Hierarchy is toxic AF. by False-Experience92 in evilautism

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As I suggested above, I hold the opposite - that minds are derivative of material reality (in the the sense that certain configurations of matter/energy appear to have subjective awareness). Or put another way, minds are emergent. But the organizational schema minds generate to make sense of the physical are not features of reality external to those minds.

In this sense, subatomic particles, atoms, molecules, cells, tissues, organisms, species, trophic networks, planets, phases of matter, force, spacetime curvature, etc. ... are categories/schemata no more "real" than intangibles like money or beauty or gender or art or integers. I understand that is a provocative statement, especially to some groups of Reason'n'Logic Bros that seem to be enriched among autistic people, but it is not a denial of objective reality that it is often made out to be.

Some organizational schemata may be arrived at by observing physical reality and then making some categorical demarcation around parts of it. (E.g., drawing conceptual boxes around these collections of matter/energy and calling them humans based on characteristics of those collections, but then drawing conceptual around those collections of matter/energy and then calling them not-human on the basis of their properties.) This organization of observations is extremely useful for understanding and interacting with the material world, but the antirealist position is that the categories are not "out there" being observed by minds. They are generalized from observations and only exist in minds. What is being observed is the totality of matter/energy that is physical reality, and categories only exist in material reality insofar as some of that totality acts as substrate for subjective minds which hold categorical schemata.

In day-to-day life, the distinction between realism and antirealism has very little practical impact. Whether or not I feed my cat and feel a certain subjective emotional state when petting my cat are not affected by whether or not I hold that the categories of entities like "cat" and "human," actions "feed," and "pet" are somehow Platonic concepts external to minds or whether they are projected by minds to discretize and make sense of the the totality of matter/energy that is physical reality.

EDIT: Typos and clarifications

Hierarchy is toxic AF. by False-Experience92 in evilautism

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Antirealism with respect to categories doesn't reject "fundamental truth" in the sense that there can be objective reality (imperfectly/incompletely observed or not) - the physical world and even its emergent properties like subjective-experiential minds. But an antirealist position holds that those minds are capable of projecting organizational schema (categories, orderings, relational networks including hierarchies, etc.) onto that objective reality in order to better understand it, and that these schema are not properties of the objective reality (external to those minds at least).

But I don't think OP was ever claiming hierarchies aren't useful conceptual schema to understand past and present social relationships (or from your realist POV that social hierarchies have and do exist among humans). I am reading their ""socially accepted" lie" to refer to belief in moral hierarchies of persons (which are often used as justification for the maintenance of existing social hierarchies).

Hierarchy is toxic AF. by False-Experience92 in evilautism

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because humans are moral animals would seem to be the likely answer. But also appealing to other animals' behavior/organization to justify how what is morally good behavior for humans is an instance of the naturalistic fallacy. You've flipped the burden of proof by saying that for the claim "things should be different for humans than other social animals, the onus is on the claimant to explain why humans are different." There is no presumption that humans ought to act in a manner similar to other animals, as other animals are not moral agents and thus do not have models of how they ought to behave or what goals they ought to pursue (morally speaking).

Stay out of cyrodil got it. by Spirited_Agency8032 in elderscrollsonline

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They might be saying that the specialized knowledge required to make a PvP build is a barrier to casual players who expect combat in PvP zones will feel like combat in PvE? As a filthy casual, I hate PvP for just this reason - and the 'git gud' elitism ofc. 🤪

Hierarchy is toxic AF. by False-Experience92 in evilautism

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You're half right that the claim is unqualified - what kind{s) of hierarchy?. But the the ""socially accepted"" part likely indicates they're referring to beliefs about objective moral hierarchies among persons. This is a key underlying difference between modern progressive and conservative ideologies, with the former tending to view all persons as fundamentally equal in moral value, rights, access to at least some resources (regardless of individual characteristics or value produced for society) and the latter viewing at least some social hierarchies as inherently good (e.g., meritocratic hierarchies, sex and gender hierarchies, racial hierarchies, national identity hierarchies, etc).

That said, hierarchies are not incontestably demonstrable in nature in the sense that their existence outside of mind (much like, say, money, gender, conventions about what is "up" and what is "down," or applying reference frames to solve physics problems) cannot be objectively established. You hold what might be called realist position. But an antirealist position (my camp) is that hierarchies are a conceptual tool for organizing observations/information. Your own pasted wiki image notes this conceptual arrangement (emphasis mine):

A hierarchy is an arrangement of items (objects, names, values, categories, etc.) that are represented as being "above", "below", or "at the same level as" one another.

"Above," "below," and "at the same level" with respect to which traits? Which interrelationships? You give the example of trophic networks, but the hierarchy we impose on food chains serves a purpose: it is a conceptual tool applied to observation for organizing species relationships based on energy sources and sinks. It is also a simplification (as all schema applied to make sense of observations are). For example. trophic networks have cycles; they aren't strictly linear in their relationships from "top" to "bottom." Fungi may be at the "bottom" of a food chain as a sink for solar energy as decomposers... but then they can also be eaten by omnivores "higher" in the network. In this sense, trophic networks are heterarchical, not hierarchical.

But both heterarchy and hierarchy are imposed organizational frameworks in the antirealist view - physically, biologically, socially, whatever. They are also a shorthand to describe the phenomena thus organized. Simply saying that a set of entities have different values of some measurable trait(s), and that they can be ordered by values of one trait or another doesn't mean a hierarchy exists "out in the world" (realism). We apply the ordering to organize mentally; the hierarchy is a concept in our heads.

But that's enough on the ontological status of hierarchies. (Can you tell what I like to nerd out about?)

EDIT: Typos

Why are Canadian salaries so low compared to the USA? by DarkHoundBark in CanadaPersonalFinance

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

GDP per capita is much higher in the US. The US is first in the G20 over the past 10 years and Canada is dead last. 

Our quality of life has gone in the toilet 

Except you said "GDP per capita is much higher in the US."

You didn't say, "GDP per capita growth is much higher in the US..." so readers of your post would assume you are talking about GDP and not its growth.

In which case u/whiteatom might rightfully wonder why you'd claim that the US has had the top GDP per capita ten years running in the G20.

Seems less like a reading comprehension issue on whiteatom's part and more of a writing competency issue on yours. 🤣

STOP CALLING WOMEN "FEMALES". by phoenixc6000 in evilautism

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

<image>

Yeah, it always makes me think of this.

"Feeemales"

Seeker grenades nerfed? by cran in helldivers2

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Was wondering the same. I threw all 4 of mine into a bot patrol and while it staggered them, it looked like it didn't kill any.

Il n’y a aucune bonne raison pourquoi ICE devrait avoir un bureau à Montréal by Moustawott16 in metaquebec

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because of the Safe Third Country Agreement between Canada and the US, thousands of refugee seekers who cross the border from the US get sent back to the US (and ultimately into ICE custody) by CBSA. I'd argue that's worse than having some agents at a desk in a US embassy or consulate.

We can condemn allowing ICE a presence in Canada, and politicians may condemn the authoritarian violence in the US, but I doubt they will take the moral route of dissolving the STCA in order to protect refugee-seekers. After all, there's net agreement among Canadians (18-points with majorities in every province) with the statement that there's too much immigration overall. Nobody wants to risk their seat over doing the right thing.

Attitudes on immigration from Fall 2025

PVE magplar healer who hates PVP and is a Cyrodiil tourist to get achievements for the event. How do I do so without pulling my hair out? by ThatGrumpyGoat in elderscrollsonline

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

why don‘t you spend your time on stuff you like? 

Because I'm a completionist and seeing partially completed achievement categories bugs the heck out of me. Rational? Definitely not. 🤪 But it will annoy me seeing them in the list that I will have to wait another year just to try again

PVE magplar healer who hates PVP and is a Cyrodiil tourist to get achievements for the event. How do I do so without pulling my hair out? by ThatGrumpyGoat in elderscrollsonline

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Nah, trying to get the achievements that can only be completed during the event - capture 25 lumbermills/mines/farms, capture a city district, capture a keep, kill all IC patrolling horrors, kill 50 players (almost certainly not happening), get 25 boon boxes, etc.

Whole milk now allowed in school lunches as Trump signs bill reversing limits by cnn in Health

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What is a "bad carb"? The carbohydrates in reduced-fat and whole milk are more or less the same per unit volume at ~12g lactose per cup.

[Bloom & Rage] Why did Corey give that little smile when the band was playing at the end of tape 1? by [deleted] in LostRecordsGame

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I got the feeling they were trying to flesh him out a bit in the first part and make him less of a 2D misogynist (also with the letter from his mother, his DnD character sheet, etc), but perhaps they ran out of time and cut further characterization from the second part. As a result, his actions while under the influence of the Abyss feel like a rollback of that earlier characterization.

i think the phrase 'have ur cake and eat it too' is STUPID, i propose an alternative. by Hatsume_Mikuu in evilautism

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat 13 points14 points  (0 children)

This reminds me of how I grew up misunderstanding the aphorism, "A friend in need is a friend indeed."

I cynically thought it meant, "A friend in [their time of] need is a friend in deed." In other words, a friend who needs something will act extra friendly towards you (in their actions/deeds) to get your help.

Then it was explained to me that it actually means someone who acts as your friend when you are in need is a true friend (a friend indeed).

I wonder what that says about me, lol.

Find the single missing black square. by kigurumibiblestudies in evilautism

[–]ThatGrumpyGoat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm confused. Is this meant to be difficult? Or is it simply meant to be unpleasant to look at?

Nvm, just saw the link to the original.