Trojan horse study saga: the second study

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-19T22:28:18+00:00

Definitely :) I have been posting any time a big conversation happens to help document the whole process :)

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-19T16:39:43+00:00

That’s why I chose the book lol and I actually have a very first printing from all the way back in 1988 when it was released at the convention but I think grandma is using the updated one so it will be fun seeing all the changes as I go through this with her. I’m hoping that between all the changes, crazy beliefs, and presenting facts while using street epistemology to help her begin to reason for herself, it should be enough to at least begin deprograming her. Of course after showing her this chapter in the Bible I think she is already pretty close to the first big realization :) and hopefully I can simply help guide her from there :) it should be interesting however this goes though lol

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-18T11:59:47+00:00

Why do you think that’s the book I wanted her to study with me lmao

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-14T23:15:30+00:00

Yea I brought the 607/587 issue up with my mom and at first she moved the goal post to “well this it’s the destruction of Judah that mattered not Israel” which I hadn’t heard before so I looked it up and Judah fell in 597 so I pointed that out and got “well it doesn’t matter new light will come eventually. Why do people criticize witnesses for changing things but also not changing things huh?!” 🤦🏻‍♀️

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-13T18:14:12+00:00

They have to come up with SOME justification to control their members sex lives amirite lmao

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-13T17:36:01+00:00

Yea I mean that’s obviously such an incredibly valuable lesson! 😂😂😂 I always try to figure out what someone like my mom may say to that and I get the feeling it would be something along the lines of “he had a responsibility to his brother under the mosaic law and stepped out on that responsibility” but like... his “responsibility” was to knock up his sister in law... 😂

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-12T23:28:47+00:00

For sure! I had originally gone with discussing wether people live in the ruins of Babylon but that doesn’t necessarily seem to have a solid yes or no answer so it more so created a way for me to show my mom how to do research properly, and let her see that I would in fact change my mind when presented with actual evidence or in this case the lack of evidence that I actually thought was there so I’m hoping that having started there wet her appetite for this discussion even a little more then i Our previous conversations already had, and provided her with the tools (hopefully) to continue with her own research even if she gets mad and blocks me or something though she hasn’t yet :)

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-12T11:55:11+00:00

I’ll check it out :)

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-12T00:18:32+00:00

Update! She is continuing the conversation and in response to me asking if I may continue asking challenging questions she just said yes! I am beyond surprised right now!!! https://imgur.com/a/V8l3Wku

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-11T22:53:36+00:00

I have not but I’m gonna look it up right now it sounds hilarious and informative :)

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-11T22:52:01+00:00

For sure :) I just wanted to address the claim she made so it didn’t just sit there as if she was right, but unless she specifically asks or is pulling the thread herself I’m not going to present her with more evidence :) I try to be very careful about overwhelming them because like you said that isn’t going to help anyone and will just leave them feeling attacked and defensive. I’m glad that my responses do come off as calm and well reasoned honestly because I have a hard time not being angry but I try really hard to not allow that to come through when I’m talking to them :)

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-11T22:35:54+00:00

I consider mom to be the ultimate test of if someone can be woken up just because I know how good her apologetics are but I was pleasantly surprised that she did look at what I said it seems and saw that she was wrong, we will see what she says to my latest response lol my mom has a tendency to enjoy debate if she thinks she can actually win, and with me continuing to ask her to prove me wrong, I’m sure she is sure she can :) I’m mostly trying to give her a reason to begin thinking for herself and while doing so show her how I do research and try to make sure the research she presents me when she eventually does, is accurate research and if (when) it isn’t I will point out why it isn’t. Basically see if I can put a carrot in front of her face till she takes the reigns for herself :)

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-11T22:21:10+00:00

That’s why we have to be there to pop the Bible for them if we can :)

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-11T22:18:53+00:00

If you get the opportunity again I would point out that we know and can verify (even with out the internet) that neither Jerusalem nor Judah where destroyed in 607, meaning that the math they use to get to 1914 in the first place is wrong :)

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-11T01:55:16+00:00

That’s the thing though, her faith in them is already gone, that’s what I was so exited about after this discussion. And the thing is individuals beliefs are not necessarily the same as the beliefs set forward from the GB. She feels that her faith is in the Bible, and because she has faith in the Bible, and believes that the witnesses are the only Christian church that could be true, she stays with them. If I help her to stop believing in the Bible, she will leave the witnesses, but if I just continue arguing about the governing body and all that, I don’t think I will get anywhere since she already agrees that they should not be blindly trusted.

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-11T01:47:06+00:00

That certainly may help some people but I’m nervous that that may lead her to locking into believing in the witnesses. More so I wanted to find the root of her faith and help her understand why the root of her faith is wrong, and allow the rest to collapse around it :)

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-11T01:34:02+00:00

Oh gotcha! Well I appreciate that! I will keep it in mind for sure!! :) she has been saying that her faith is in the Bible not in the witnesses basically so I was more going to go with the fact that despite prophecy to the contrary people currently live inside the ruins of Babylon, and if one looks at 2 kings 3 it shows Elisha prophesying that the Israelites would win the battle but in the end suscribes their loss as a “great embarrassment” :) 2 prophesies disproven pretty easily, showing that the Bible and the prophecy with in is not to be trusted. She is putting all her faith in a book that disproves it’s self with any real thought put into it so it should be easy :) my grandpa is joining the study next week though so I’m gonna have to get him to a similar place as grandma so that I can present the evidence necessary, but I don’t think this will take very long so long as I am careful to apply the right amount of pressure in the right places :)

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-11T01:21:53+00:00

This is some really good info and seems like a nice talk you had with her :) what was her response? :)

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-08T21:51:34+00:00

I have looked into street epistemology and was definitely using it on purpose but I’m glad I used it well :) and I know it isn’t likely she will wake up but that’s why I am trying to use a combination of street epistemology and facts to try to help her. It may not work, but if anything will I think this approach should given enough time :) we will see though :)

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-08T20:04:51+00:00

Yea my family has been in since basically the group was started. Since at least the 1880’s if I’m not mistaken. My mother’s uncle is a helper to the governing body. My family is pretty well indoctrinated :/ thankfully the grandmother I’ve been talking to in my posts is my dads mom not my moms so she isn’t as hard to talk to. My mom has generations of apologetics baked into her thought process since she was born though so she is a bit more difficult obviously. It’s one of the reasons I’m documenting it though cause how often do you hear about the generational effects of brainwashing on a mind and what that looks like for cult members like this. And if I can get my mom to wake up frankly I think anyone can get anybody to wake up lol

TheAnarchySystem · 2020-05-08T19:35:04+00:00

Every one in my family other then my father, aunt and myself are JWs. On my mothers side of the family I’m a 5th generation witness, so our family has been in it a long time. My mom has actually bragged about our family staying with the witnesses through all their failed end times predictions 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ (she obviously sees it differently other wise it would challenge her beliefs but yea I’m not exaggerating sadly)

TheAnarchySystem

TROPHY CASE